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Avalira
Caldari Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.05.05 21:05:00 -
[1]
I see lots of posts from CSM's and even more questions being asked to candidates. However, it seems that these questions are based on player's hopes in having game mechanics changed and I'm getting the feeling that they are not voting for community leaders, or managers, but rather voting for a chance to get a cookie in the end.
So it seems as if some have lost track of what the CSM's are supposed to be doing once elected. I know there is a big document about their job, yet I would like to hear from the CSM candidates on what their job will be, how it works and what results we can expect from this?
------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.05 21:11:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Avalira I see lots of posts from CSM's and even more questions being asked to candidates. However, it seems that these questions are based on player's hopes in having game mechanics changed and I'm getting the feeling that they are not voting for community leaders, or managers, but rather voting for a chance to get a cookie in the end.
So it seems as if some have lost track of what the CSM's are supposed to be doing once elected. I know there is a big document about their job, yet I would like to hear from the CSM candidates on what their job will be, how it works and what results we can expect from this?
Here's a blurb from my website dariusjohnson.net that distills some of the basics of the csm.
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
The following is a brief overview I had posted on our forums explaining to goons at a high level what the CSM is and what its stated purpose will be. Please feel free to let me know if thereÆs anything here that appears to be inaccurate and IÆll be happy to make a correction.
Based on some of the questions and answers IÆve been seeing IÆm not quite certain either all of the people asking or all of the people answering really know what the CSM is, how it will be structured and what itÆs purpose is. Here is a little brief IÆll call CSM for Goons.
The CSM is a group of 9 players which will be voted into office via a one vote per account rule. The highest voted player will be granted the chairmanship and will for all intents and purposes ôrunö the CSM. If elections do not succeed properly the chairman also chooses by hand who will fill the other 2 or 3 seats that are named officers on the council.
Essentially these 9 people hold meetings where they bring up and discuss player concerns, with the end result being that twice a year they get to bring these concerns directly to CCP, and have CCP either commit to fixing them or at least give an answer regarding why.
The CSM is flown to Iceland every 6 months. No one may sit on the CSM for more than 2 terms. Communication to CSM members will be done via whatever mechanisms they choose as well as a forum which will be set up on eve-o. Anyone will be able to post on this forum with issues they feel the CSM should address and have an open ended discussion.
The CSM only gets their two opportunities each year to bring issues to CCP. That means that the issues need to be well thought out and the pile must be carefully selected.
All votes in the CSM that have thus far been conceived only require a 51% margin to pass. People can be removed from the CSM for breaking the EULA.
ThatÆs about it off of the top of my head. Feel free to ask questions about the CSM in general and IÆll try to answer them.
I think that you'll find a lot of people pandering to people regarding what they want to deliver etc... that's part of politics. This is why it's important to at least attempt to get to know your candidates. In reality I think you'll find it will be difficult for people to push an agenda through the CSM and even when they do CCP gets final overruling say.
Anyone espousing pet issues such as OMFG NERF THE SPEED MODS OF THE APOC BY 10% TO REDUCE LAG AND MAKE THEM EASIER TO KILL is a silly little goose. http://www.griefgaming.com/images/darius_sig.jpg
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.05 21:28:00 -
[3]
The CSM is going to be organizing player issues for presentation to a CCP council.
CSM members will need to take the ideas and problems of the players and then make a case for why those ideas need to be implemented or problems solved, and how that could best be done.
Hopefully we'll have imaginative and eloquent folks representing us to get the best possible response from CCP on the issues that concern us.
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TornSoul
BIG
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Posted - 2008.05.05 22:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kelsin
CSM members will need to take the ideas and problems of the players and then make a case for why those ideas need to be implemented or problems solved, and how that could best be done.
While keeping "the BIG picture" in mind! Overall game balance is #1.
If 90% of all players demand pink ponies in space, I'm going to tell them outright that it would go against what EVE is about, and that theres no way to convince CCP that it would be a good idea regardless.
Might be an extreme example (it was used by one of the panel invitees at FF'07, at the panel talk about the CSM), but it's spot on.
There will ofc be issues that are not as black&white as the above, and those would ofc need to be considered carefully, and the CSM would need to work hard to make a case for it to present to CCP.
TornSoul campaign website : It's about "The BIG picture"
BIG Lottery |
Avalira
Caldari Pax Minor Expiscor Pario Addo
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Posted - 2008.05.05 23:34:00 -
[5]
I've seen mention before about "player concerns", does this really include changing game mechanics?
For instance, lets say the CSM existed before the carrier nerf, would they have prevented it? There was a huge community outcry to prevent the nerf but in hindsight things worked out pretty well, and I'm glad CCP implemented it.
So how much power will the CSM have? Could they reverse a descision done by CCP? Is it wise to give them power of any kind?
I'm just trying to wrap my head around the actual use of CSM's. It's kind of a catch 22 situation. Without power they cannot change anything, and if they aren't there to change things then what is their use? I mean, what will CSM members bring more than a 20 page thread that devs can read directly on the forums? Will they be presenting CCP with the current problems during their meetings every 6 months? Isn't that a bit too far and wide for bringing forward player concerns? What are the real player concerns CCP wants to know about?
In short, what will CSM council members be presenting to CCP? Why does CCP need CSM?
------------- Selling the following: Probe BPC's ARK JF
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.05 23:50:00 -
[6]
We will be acting as a liaison with no real official power. CCP does not have the same view on things as developers that we do as players due to a number of reasons. We will be bridging that gap.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.05 23:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 05/05/2008 23:55:27
Originally by: Avalira I've seen mention before about "player concerns", does this really include changing game mechanics?
For instance, lets say the CSM existed before the carrier nerf, would they have prevented it? There was a huge community outcry to prevent the nerf but in hindsight things worked out pretty well, and I'm glad CCP implemented it.
So how much power will the CSM have? Could they reverse a descision done by CCP? Is it wise to give them power of any kind?
I'm just trying to wrap my head around the actual use of CSM's. It's kind of a catch 22 situation. Without power they cannot change anything, and if they aren't there to change things then what is their use? I mean, what will CSM members bring more than a 20 page thread that devs can read directly on the forums? Will they be presenting CCP with the current problems during their meetings every 6 months? Isn't that a bit too far and wide for bringing forward player concerns? What are the real player concerns CCP wants to know about?
In short, what will CSM council members be presenting to CCP? Why does CCP need CSM?
The CSM MUST respond to any issue which acheives a greater than 5% vote on the CSM forums. This issue MUST then be discussed by the CSM at a formal meeting and pass a 51% vote to be brought to CCP. CCP retains the right to not address any issue, but they DO owe the CSM a response in writing. The CSM is nothing more than an advisory board for all intents and purposes with no REAL power.
The CSM brings these issues to CCP once in person every 6 months and I believe there may be the opportunity for an online meeting in that time as well. The people the CSM will be dealing with are a council of CCP employees hand picked by the CEO.
I believe the CSM is meant to serve as a controlled voice directly to CCP. To give the players a realistic and documented ability to have their needs and concerns addressed directly by CCP.
http://www.griefgaming.com/images/darius_sig.jpg
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Dawnstar
Gallente Kiroshi Group
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Posted - 2008.05.06 00:46:00 -
[8]
I think that a big part of the job will be providing feedback to CCP on what the playerbase thinks as a whole.
That's kind of a broad statement, but there are a few things in particular:
1. Providing CCP with a sounding board for their new ideas. 2. Acting as a filter for the thousands of ideas that players put forth to improve Eve. 3. Being a voice that CCP can use to accurately gage the interest of the players on various topics. An elected council will much better reflect the players' views than the heavy forum posters.
-D |
Max Torps
Gallente eXceed Inc. eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.05.06 21:02:00 -
[9]
This is the job in it's entirety really.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/devblog/CSMSummary.pdf
One of the key elements is this:
Quote: Topic Presentation and Management by the CSM
Anyone with the right to vote can start a topic on the CSM forums and comment on any number of existing topics. Moderation rules for posting on the CSM forums are the same as the MyEVE forums. In addition, voters will also be provided with the technical means to support a topic anonymously. Players may support any number of separate topics, but may only support each topic once.
A topic can be anything that a player considers important. The goal is to either gain the support of a Representative, or gain a 5% public support level on the issue from the total voter population.
If either of these conditions is met, the topic must be addressed by the CSM
....ctd and so on.
Which is why people are getting a feel for candidates and their opinions. Now if a candidate has an agenda, they can have any topic they choose addressed by the CSM.
It's also why some candidates prefer others as they know their view will be supported on the Council. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I am pointing out that politics really are at work here and every vote counts.
Vote for me here Candidate thread here Website here
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