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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.13 12:29:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Something should be done about wardeccing corps that love to stomp smaller corps for the heck of it.
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However, declaring war is also used as means to deliver payback to corps that engage in griefing and hi-sec crime. And if there's some new mechanic which allows corps to avoid wardecs even more easily than corp-hopping, you can bet that these criminals will use it.
Unbiased, right? :D Griefers? What? If one can't take the heat should stay in n00b corp forever. Some evolve though.
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Hmm, something which discourages unprovoked wardecs, and encourages provoked ones...
Babe, can you please define "provoked" and "unprovoked"... no offense what you said here is meaningless, you can't define those therefore you can't really make a difference between them.
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current game mechanics allow for situations where one just cannot deal with. One sided mechanics that favor aggressors and griefers without giving the small defending parties and victims of crime any chance of resolve.
No, some can't deal with. And those don't belong to this game. I have survived wardecs while being in a small industrial corp. The corp eventually didn't. All members that wanted to, learned from that experience and took steps to try and avoid wars they can't win in the future.
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How long can you remain docked up?
How long you want to? What do you intend to do about it?
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If other players can completely and continuously destroy your ability to play the game, and thus make it impossible for you to have fun
Eve is the land of all possibilities. It has been proven countless times. :D
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Remember that there are people in this game that demand people being kicked from NPC corps as well as keeping people valid targets if they leave a decced corp! This is absurd and only shows that the mindset of these players is to grief and harrass weak and defenseless players. This behaviour is disgusting and not even worthy of being called PVP.
Worried to lose your nice cozy n00b corp? If someone is harrassing you, report them! There's a section under "petitions" for that if I'm not wrong. F12 if I remember correctly. Other than that, adapt. All of us need to adapt, constantly, as the game and we are changing.
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PVP in itself is fine and an integral part of the game. But it should not turn into a endless one sided slaughter which cannot be avoided by the weaker party. Likewise, it should be possible for players to resolve conflicts in hi-sec. But that does not mean that unprovoked, deliberate and continous griefing is excusable.
Are you proposing a quake-like, FFA or gladiator system (only consentual PVP with matchmaking)? Half the players will cancel their accounts if that happens. Really.
I remember someone saying, in Eve all PvP is consentual - you agree to it when you log in. I came to accept this, with time. I wasn't always the fearsome PvPer I am today. :)
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we are dealing with dumb computers here, the only way we could address issues is through rigid and inflexible structures. And it is always a challenge to account for human behaviour.
Catchy phrases. You're good at talking without content.
Overally, the wardec system is flawed. The least would be to drastically increase the fees. But you can't really create a matchmaking system to make sure only evenly "powerful" corps can fight without ruining Eve as it is. Besides, it'd be too easy to go around it. Average SP based corp matching? Join n00b alts. Total SP based comparison? Specialized alt corps. Wealth? Carebears have more isk than pvpers. You could somehow match the wardeccer corp's SP to the industrial corp's wallet for example, but that's really tough because of the (dynamically changing) merc fees.
There's shooting others, market PvP, forum PvP... it's all pvp. Yes hisec ganking is flawed as it is now, too, but doesn't mean it has to be removed; as another example.
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.13 19:57:00 -
[2]
The fundamental flaw is that there's no such thing as griefing, not in the sense people like to use this word. Pvp is not griefing, even tho if from some people's point of view it seems to be.
So griefing and wardec are two words that should not appear in the same sentence normally. Corp hopping is lame, get out and stay in a noob corp for a while if **** hits the fan and you can't handle it. For now, CCP protects you that way. You can still use the same chat and voice comm, can gang up etc. so it should not be an issue.
Never did it, but if at some point in my Eve life I want to find and wardec a juicy full industrial corp, I want to be able to do so. It is one of my fundamental rights that I simply refuse to give up.
You'd be surprised, some people actually can solve war problems; hiring mercs, calling some friends into corp temporarily to help, etc. It just takes a little bit of thinking, effort and diplomacy. Keywords that might be missing from full newb corps, this is why they either grow up quickly or perish. Oh well, tough ****e.
You seem to be a very naive nice young girl with a lot of time to spare, and I wish you success in both RL and Eve, but I hope you're not going to represent people here. There's better and more experienced carebears at that.
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.13 23:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sariyah on 13/05/2008 23:20:59
Game mechanics allow it sometimes, sometimes don't 
Sometimes the big fish eat the small one. If they meet. Keeping a low profile in a low-populated area helps, too...
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.14 06:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Guess what would happen to Eve if a non-PVP server opens. I've seen it happen with another game. These players mean much more to the game than you credit them for.
I did laugh of this idea irl  It would die by itself after everyone is a billionaire with personal titans.
Eve online is considered a hardcore game by many, rightfully. It is not supposed to be a wow even if some would want it to be (why?). If I want cartoonish easy entertainment where I never actually lose I play that or similar games.
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.14 13:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sariyah on 14/05/2008 13:41:50
Originally by: Esmenet
hopefully the EVE devs will continue to make their own game and market it towards the niche of pvp'ers so the minority at least has one mmo to have fun in.
QFFT
And no Ankh you're wrong, it's the other way around, PvPers can do without the PvEers, but it's one aspect of the game you can't possibly know much about except reading forums / hearing stuff from strangers. In my experience PvPers are more experienced in the game overally, many have PvE alts (miners, manufacturers, they can run missions etc). You'd be surprised how many 0.0 alliances have strong industrial backbones using alts / alt corps that build a lot of stuff. But the PvEers would quickly lose their purpose in the game as stated above, market would really crash. Why train for months to build some ship(s) when you can hardly sell them? Currently in Eve PvE there's no real way to lose a ship unless you crash (even then you emergency warp out quite fast). I've been running missions on my alt char in empire recently with an unstable PC, that is I crashed 1-2 times every evening in missions still in weeks I didn't lose a single ship.
Eve PvEers are just there to support the PvP. If you run missions, you'll use the LP to get items and sell them, quite a lot of those go to PvPers. Also you reprocess loot, salvage, to be able to sell it and those turn into ships and rigs, again, used mostly by PvPers. If you run complexes - same. Who in their right mind would use Gistii MWDs for PvE use, and why? To travel? :) Also the faction nos/neutralizers/scramblers/webs/ammo/special implants are used, bought and lost on a daily basis, while PvEers fit a faction ship to do missions, and most of them don't even use faction ammo as it's hardly worth its price (maybe the ones using Marauders use it as they use less ammo). I was also hanging around the "lvl4" channel and to my surprise the most popular ship for lvl4 missions seems to be simple t2 fitted Domi. Not very quick to kill, certainly good enough, also can tank pretty much all full spawns. I was a minority there with my Raven. :)
PvPers play PvE too to support their PvP losses
PvEers play only PvE to... dunno... make billions. Most of it from selling the loot to PvPers in form of faction / deadspace modules and ships. It's a perfectly good thing to do if someone enjoys it, but it's not a self-sustainable playstyle in terms of fun on it's own.
I imagine on a PvE server highsec would be totally empty since you get 0.0 without moving a finger, jump into your ship and afk autopilot to wherever you like. Ah well, we have a test server for that.
No, the existence of PvE (in EVE!) is just to support PvP and to provide short term entertainment for noobs or people that hardly play anymore; just log on occasionally to do a mission and then log off for the week. Or, umm, chat.
As it is now, no you cannot have the whole universe for free. I know it's so unfair but that's how it is. 
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.14 16:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sariyah on 14/05/2008 16:54:53
Forcing PvPers to PvP less (and thus carebear more if they want to play) is a very dangerous PoV. Radical groups like this shouldn't be allowed to destroy Eve.
- It's happening because people want to play and have fun. Also it's one way to make Isk, a heluva more interesting for many than mining / ratting / missioning / manfacturing / trading etc. and that sounds like a perfectly valid reason to me.
Locking highsec people in a safe shell where no one can touch them is so against Eve philosophy. Don't change the game fundamentally rather than fixing and enhancing it.
Any small to medium carebear (includes all safe isk making activities) corp with mostly new people (less than a year old) will consider any wardec griefing, this word is so biased it's not even worth using it. If you want more safety for highsec people then CCP should also, naturally, lower their potential profits as possible. You can't control the market but you can control the belts in highsec, mission bounties/loot/rewards and possibly more; sure make wardec fees 100-200m or whatever, but also make profits like half or 1/4 from what they are now. After all with less wardecs people lose less so their wealth will be still constantly increasing with virtually no chance to go down unless they gamble it all.
Hell, have a PvE flag if you wish that you turn on forever and then you can't jump into lowsec or interact with others only with the outcasts like you; then the risk is 0. Means also the reward should be set to 0. Seems like perfectly logical and balanced. Point is, reducing risks while maintaining rewards is a bad thing for every game. Been there, trust me.
Originally by: Lucy'Lastic
I found this post from ages ago.
lots of ways to deal with war a dec
do that or leave for an npc corp imo
that should be stickied in c&p as well.
Problem is that probably at least 95% of the people we "need" protected don't read forums, or fail to understand a perfectly beautiful guide like that. So they need to be protected against their own ignorance, which is a hard task to perform; but there seem to be people that think CCP should do it.
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.14 18:28:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sariyah on 14/05/2008 18:29:45
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
IÆm quite sure the PvPÆing pirates will hate this idea though! Because all those people want are quick kills against lower sp characters. Fairness to them is a foreign language.
Haha, evil honorless pirates :)
A very educative video on the subject, see why it's a problem to listen to too newb people... :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU
A pretty extreme example of why newbies opinion should not matter too much in deciding where this game is heading. They simply don't know the game enough and simply keep blaming the evil agressors instead of realizing they are the ignorant ones.
Yes this is lowsec but I'm sure people in highsec have the same fake ideas of what Eve is.
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:16:00 -
[8]
Shoo alt, not sure if that was a joke or I should be scared.
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Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sariyah on 14/05/2008 19:30:36
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Originally by: Sariyah
Yes this is lowsec ...
There is your answer: Apples to oranges.
We are talking about high sec mechanics here and how to stop griefing.
Petition griefing. Anyways what griefing has to do with wardecs? Back on topic plx. :)
Point is that noob never udnerstood what this game is as some don't understand it here.
He was convinced that what he got was griefing. Oh how wrong he was. As some here... simple things really, not sure why is hard to understand.
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