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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 09:41:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 13/05/2008 09:42:49
Originally by: Arendis Why are you pulling Celes into this? It's not about celes at all
They are the founding corporation, and darth solo runs INSURG. Just sayin' bro. Maybe you genuinely thought they were unrelated or something.
You know just going nuts here and being all "Maybe the guy signing the gag order on page 1 of this thread had something to do with policy decisions and opinions expressed here". It's a crazy notion I know.
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Arendis
The Phoenix Confederacy Raging Phoenix Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 09:49:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 13/05/2008 09:42:49
Originally by: Arendis Why are you pulling Celes into this? It's not about celes at all
They are the founding corporation, and darth solo runs INSURG.
True indeed, but you posted stuff that happend to Celes in the past, Celes is not Insrg. The fact remains they fought against massive numbers, thus took gigantic risks. yes they got booted out, yeh the North prevailed. Seems it was a good war, but taking a plunge into hell? risking everything? Only Insrg did that, not the Northeren Coalition.
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Maj'k Lootar
Trinity Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.13 09:56:00 -
[243]
how about this for a challenge ernest... you have gone from fighting bob while outnumbering them 10 to 1 to fighting against insurgency with 10 to 1 odds...
for a guy who claims to like the tough road your not making it easy for anyone to believe.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:02:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
randoms stuff about CELES
I'm not a CELES member, and this isnt about them, I can't see any relevance in what you're saying.
If you like tough odds, prove it. Go up against INSRG one on one. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:04:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Arendis
True indeed, but you posted stuff that happend to Celes in the past, Celes is not Insrg. The fact remains they fought against massive numbers, thus took gigantic risks. yes they got booted out, yeh the North prevailed. Seems it was a good war, but taking a plunge into hell? risking everything? Only Insrg did that, not the Northeren Coalition.
See, this is where the fun lying bit comes in. It'd be in poor taste to just throw up some ventrilo recordings here, but let's say they've not been too shy about angling themselves some powerful friends and being confident that they were leading victims into an offensive war vs Sov3, which in the current EvE really is the craziest thing to attempt.
Of course, after a few initial wins and appropriate truckloads of gloating, that didn't turn out as expected and the partyline has shifted to "SPARTAAAA!!!! 300!!!! RAWGH MANLY SO MANLY RAWRGH!!". Right now it's internally " We've got plans " where 'plans' consists of shooting at us and fellating any alpha-males of EvE to join their cause as possible.
I've got an armlong list of stories about the internal demagoguery and how wonderfully counter-factual the victim card is. But making that and various golden recordings into a collage is too much effort for such a silly vindictive cause. I just wanted to speak up because occasionally do I feel sorry for the guys being fed this tripe all day. It's a game, we play it to have fun and not be fed horsemanure, Insurgency members deserve better than what they're getting.
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Arendis
The Phoenix Confederacy Raging Phoenix Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:10:00 -
[246]
Insrg deserved better then what? being blobbed out 10/1? being called noobs and victims just because they rallied more people to there cause?
What do they deserve really? Pvp? Darth provides A fun alliance with crazy mofo's and pleasant people? (Can't comment on this since I am not Insrg) I guess this is true looking at some Insrg members.
I mean what do they deserve better? Give us a pointer here. For al you know Insrg members just love all the SPARTA!! we tha man stuff. Why not? why should they hide there acomplishments. True tact isn't there best point, but who gives a crap really, they enjoy eve and are good at it.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:17:00 -
[247]
all i can say is ha ha we took space out numbered and we wil do it again.
have you ever done that razor?
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
River Myst
The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:19:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Right now it's internally " We've got plans " where 'plans' consists of shooting at us and fellating as many alpha-male alliances of EvE to join their cause as possible
So wait... WE were the NAPtrain all along?!! That explains a few things, such as why I never understand the ending to "The Usual Suspects".
As Butter Dog said, let's see you walk the walk and fight 1-1 without hiding under the collective skirts of the NC. Otherwise you're just reminding me of former Man United midfielder Nicky Butt, who would only ever act the hard man when he was certain that Roy Keane was within 10 yards of him at all times...
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:28:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 13/05/2008 10:32:56
Originally by: Maj'k Lootar Edited by: Maj''k Lootar on 13/05/2008 10:01:39 how about this for a challenge ernest... you have gone from fighting bob while outnumbering them 10 to 1 to fighting against insurgency with 10 to 1 odds...
for a guy who claims to like the tough road your not making it easy for anyone to believe.
edit: of course the irony here is you keep referring to fighting a hard fight against mc and bob.
really what happened? rzr and co. got steamrolled by MC which at the time was really only 500-700members. So you lost with odds of something like 5 to 1.
Only AFTER MC left... and you where left with the TOUGH!!! BIG BAD MEAN!!! OPPONENTS such as T1Ts and Fatal... (wow so fearsome) you called for help again and outnumbered your enemies 10-1 before you made a move and evicted them.
you then went down to "end bob" or something with the largest coalition ever assembled... got to the doors of nol... couldn't progress further and packed it in. Came back home... raised another 10-1 blob odd and took on an alliance that by your standards... was looking for easy kills.
If you find me a way to look up dead alliances on Outpost Alert, it'd be pretty easy to show how bad selective memory is at work there. Also not seeing the 10:1 odds anywhere here, unless you're saying we outnumbered them with alliance names. Well yes, we had more letters in the alphabet on our side. That's pretty badass of us, here have some more letters: ZZKIIIOOOO.
If you mean total players, the Insurgency side has all major players included about 6-6.5k members, ours has about 7.5-8k - we're on the offensive, and at least 30% of those numbers come from far, far out of capital jumprange. Fun fact, Insurgency is currently the 5th largest alliance in the game after Goonswarm, Bruce, BoB and Roadkill. RAZOR are the 22nd largest alliance in the game. The numbers for who was active in what theatre for the timeframes you mentioned in the past look pretty generous for us really - the M.Pire/FATAL/Fallen Souls/CoW/(lol**** for a few days) was numerically much larger than RAZOR/MM, let alone MC and the pets that didn't end up living in Tenal and Branch added in. But I mean, you can believe it was a few MC guys that pushed us out, that works for me.
What Shirei brought up earlier wasn't untrue at all, that numbers haven't been that different at all, even with momentum on our side we don't really have US TZ coverage. Hell, the only battle linked in this thread so far has us outnumbered.
When I said "Insurgency members deserve better", I meant better than transparent poppycock just to keep them playing. If they're really having fun, and I hope they are, they'll keep playing and having fun if it's told like it is too. And then we can have CAOD discussions where I don't have to spend half an hour decyphering what fantasy world has been conjured up before replying.
Edit again: Because I realized I said fantasy world in a game about a fantasy world. So ******* meta.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:31:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Last time Celestial Apocalypse was confronted with a few supercaps in Fountain, they disintegrated and disappeared off the map for months. We've fought that while it was still broken, and cynojammers and an offensive war across half of EvE and retaken our space several times in the last year. Don't you dare tell anyone they don't take a challenge. They've taken the one that broke CELES.
Uh? It took more-less same time for CELES in fountain to fold as it did for razor in tenal. But there is slight difference: at the time celes had around 20-30 active pilots where razor had a bit more + mm + d2 remains + god only knows who.
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Arendis
The Phoenix Confederacy Raging Phoenix Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:34:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Arendis on 13/05/2008 10:35:30 Edited by: Arendis on 13/05/2008 10:35:08 That people really assume (Amount of pilot's acoording to EvE stats= Actual pilots in an alliance that come on and play) is rather sad.
The numbers thing, look it has been said over and over again 1. It does not matter really as long as you can have fun shooting at each other 2. You can twist and turn all you want, but the facts remain, look At Z-K first fight 270 against 800!! Those numbers haven't changed all that much in the entire war, exept maybe the week that Tri was around. AtF, Phalanx and destiny are a whole different matter, those guys had fun in smaller roaming engagments.
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Groox
Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:39:00 -
[252]
You have to give credit to NC. They have found successful formula how to play EVE. In a way NC feels like Englands striker Gary Lineker once said: "Football is a game with 22 people and in the end the Germans always win."
However MM and Razor needs now another confict in order to stay in shape. Interesting times ahead indeed.
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TylerJames
The Wild Cardz
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Posted - 2008.05.13 10:48:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Negra Neve Edited by: Negra Neve on 12/05/2008 04:28:33 Edited by: Negra Neve on 12/05/2008 04:10:00 I'd like to thank insurgency for the great fights.
I think it was obvious for all involved that it would be very hard for you guys to survive this war without losing your stations. Props for showing up, putting up a serious fight, and leaving on a good note. Resilient as you are i have no doubt you'll be back soon.
Quote: To Razor, Morsus Mihi, Pure, Hydra, Majesta Empire, Mostly Harmless, Stella Polar and Iron, thank you for bringing one of the most combat intensive months of my EVE career. You guys have proven yourselves yet again as worthy adversaries, and you banded together to give me and my brosefs the fights that we wanted. Respect.
Also would like to point this out. While in the past, our alliances may have worked side by side towards similar goals, we fought as a unit in every sense of the word now. You honestly could not tell the difference if the guy next to you was in Razor, Morsus Mihi, Pure, Hydra, Majesta Empire, Mostly Harmless, Stella Polar or Iron.
The North is indeed United, and this war helped solidify that.
And you want to play the game that way?
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Dashboard
Hard Rock Cafe
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Posted - 2008.05.13 11:39:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Groox However MM and Razor needs now another confict in order to stay in shape. Interesting times ahead indeed.
GBC inbound anticipated. See recent Molle post for BKG hint.
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Puncher
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.13 11:47:00 -
[255]
Originally by: TylerJames
Originally by: Negra Neve Edited by: Negra Neve on 12/05/2008 04:28:33 Edited by: Negra Neve on 12/05/2008 04:10:00 I'd like to thank insurgency for the great fights.
I think it was obvious for all involved that it would be very hard for you guys to survive this war without losing your stations. Props for showing up, putting up a serious fight, and leaving on a good note. Resilient as you are i have no doubt you'll be back soon.
Quote: To Razor, Morsus Mihi, Pure, Hydra, Majesta Empire, Mostly Harmless, Stella Polar and Iron, thank you for bringing one of the most combat intensive months of my EVE career. You guys have proven yourselves yet again as worthy adversaries, and you banded together to give me and my brosefs the fights that we wanted. Respect.
Also would like to point this out. While in the past, our alliances may have worked side by side towards similar goals, we fought as a unit in every sense of the word now. You honestly could not tell the difference if the guy next to you was in Razor, Morsus Mihi, Pure, Hydra, Majesta Empire, Mostly Harmless, Stella Polar or Iron.
The North is indeed United, and this war helped solidify that.
And you want to play the game that way?
- 3200 some odd kills in less than a month, of every possible shape and size. - Logging in at any time of the day to a fight in progress or brewing, cap fights as often as not until recently. - Watching pilots from numerous alliances learn to operate as a singular weapon, efficiently, regardless of which alliance the FC was from.
I get my 14.95 worth in times like these, I don't know how you want to play this game, but I hope it is somewhat near this much fun.
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Mei Han
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 11:59:00 -
[256]
If "playing that game" referes to, many alliances working together....
Imagine BOB for a moment, and instead of BOB's Corps imagine alliances that work under the similar principals.It might be logisticaly more dificult than having 5-6 huge corporations but it gives a bit more freedom and diveration.
I firmly belive now that the whole uproar about the north being a friendly neighbourhood(NAP-whatever) is not because of our numbers, since even BOB have managed to field twice our active numbers, but because of the mental handicap some ppl are having when they have to remember more than one alliance name.
Goodluck to all involved in this war and i hope that some of you learned that sometimes talking big is not the best thing to do.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 14:20:00 -
[257]
I haven't really played over the last 2 months and won't be for the forseeable future, summer, gta iv, hating eve, you know the usual... Wish I could say you deserve it NNC but the fact is you don't.
Give em all hell BoB. o7 --------------- you all smell! |
darth solo
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 14:33:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 13/05/2008 10:06:22
Originally by: Arendis
True indeed, but you posted stuff that happend to Celes in the past, Celes is not Insrg. The fact remains they fought against massive numbers, thus took gigantic risks. yes they got booted out, yeh the North prevailed. Seems it was a good war, but taking a plunge into hell? risking everything? Only Insrg did that, not the Northeren Coalition.
See, this is where the fun lying bit comes in. It'd be in poor taste to just throw up some ventrilo recordings here, but let's say they've not been too shy about angling themselves some powerful friends and being confident that they were leading victims into an offensive war vs Sov3, which in the current EvE really is the craziest thing to attempt.
Of course, after a few initial wins and appropriate truckloads of gloating, that didn't turn out as expected and the partyline has shifted to "SPARTAAAA!!!! 300!!!! RAWGH MANLY SO MANLY RAWRGH!!". Right now it's internally " We've got plans " where 'plans' consists of shooting at us and fellating as many alpha-male alliances of EvE to join their cause as possible.
I've got an armlong list of stories about the internal demagoguery and how wonderfully counter-factual the victim card is. But making that and various golden recordings into a collage is too much effort for such a silly vindictive cause. I just wanted to speak up because occasionally do I feel sorry for the guys being fed this tripe all day. It's a game, we play it to have fun and not be fed horsemanure, Insurgency members deserve better than what they're getting.
your a serious numpty.
the guys listen to me because i give them everything that EVE has to offer. iv delivered everything iv promised.
I dont think any alliance in the north hasnt tried to make us some sort of deal, everyone wanted us blue, no single alliance up here would have put us red by itself, you all got together with all the other alliance leaders and changed standings at the same time because it was the "safe" way to do it.
Safe is boring, but thats how you play eve. Some1 made a good post above about how you only ever outnumber your enemy in a 10-1 ratio and the guy had a very good point that you cant argue with.
Isk doesnt interest me. i gave every single bit of it back to the alliance. 60billion easy over the last couple of months. its all about the fun, if the INSRG guys have that then im doing it ALL correct.
Like i said, this was a battle in a war, the war continues untill i end it. bleeding the north is going to be fun over the next few months. Ill make sure whoever wants a bit of you has INSRG support, because i believe the stupid sized blob that you formed was everything INSRG was started to stand against.
d solo.
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Ky Mena
Mouse Click
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:07:00 -
[259]
Originally by: darth solo
your a serious numpty.
the guys listen to me because i give them everything that EVE has to offer. iv delivered everything iv promised.
I dont think any alliance in the north hasnt tried to make us some sort of deal, everyone wanted us blue, no single alliance up here would have put us red by itself, you all got together with all the other alliance leaders and changed standings at the same time because it was the "safe" way to do it.
Safe is boring, but thats how you play eve. Some1 made a good post above about how you only ever outnumber your enemy in a 10-1 ratio and the guy had a very good point that you cant argue with.
Isk doesnt interest me. i gave every single bit of it back to the alliance. 60billion easy over the last couple of months. its all about the fun, if the INSRG guys have that then im doing it ALL correct.
Like i said, this was a battle in a war, the war continues untill i end it. bleeding the north is going to be fun over the next few months. Ill make sure whoever wants a bit of you has INSRG support, because i believe the stupid sized blob that you formed was everything INSRG was started to stand against.
d solo.
you sound like a very intelligent person for your ability to find a common motivational cause for your alliance to fight. that much i give you.
however, the cause itself is somewhat flawed, the only way to fight blob atm is a bigger blob, and this does not just mean numbers, but shiptypes, system sov, etc. as long as eve stays this way, your glory mission is nothing more than those who fight to eliminate all violence from the world with violence.
I am only a trader and i love this profession dearly, im sure pvpers on both sides will love the action they get for the coming months. and in the end, its all that matters.
And in my experience, Isk is a driving factor for all actions in eve, just as money is in RL. you may be giving isk to your alliance, but it is definitely not because Isk does not interest you, its because something else interest you more that you are willing to spend the isk on it.
your action for the past months resemble that of a revolution leader, who fights alone against an established power, but what happens most of time is that these leaders will seek help from other established powers to aid them, and end up be either absorbed or ditched. and in this case, it is pretty clear that INSRG is shaping up to be a BOB front force in the north, while your standing may not reflect that, your hostility towards the NC is the same.
just my thoughts from reading all the CAOH, SHC and friends from both sides I sell, I buy, I survive |
Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:23:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Ky Mena
however, the cause itself is somewhat flawed, the only way to fight blob atm is a bigger blob, and this does not just mean numbers, but shiptypes, system sov, etc. as long as eve stays this way, your glory mission is nothing more than those who fight to eliminate all violence from the world with violence.
This is more true if you hold defined space which can be attacked. We saw that with our Branch stations - the NC could dictate when and where we fought, and how we fought, and even the ship types needed (POS warfare is faily one dimensional).
However, if our new mission is to make them bleed, basing from any number of NPC stations in Venal, we can do so very successfully without facing off to their uberblob. It can simply be avoided.
Its all a question of how we apply ourselves. Strikes against key infrstructure, denial of space for isk making, generally making their member lives a misery and having nothing for them to counter-attack... its a very powerful position to be in.
I think the phrase is 'off the leash'. Its a nice place to be for us. Lets see where we take it.
I've always believed that the NC attacking our stations in Branch to 'remove the nuisance of INSRG' would be horribly counter-productive for them. Perhaps they were hoping we would failure cascade when we lost them, I'm not sure. But we're stronger now than we ever have been, not a single corp has left, fresh and talented blood has joined.
I'm pretty sure the average NC member will regret putting us in a position where we have nothing to lose. Time will tell if I'm right or not.
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Ky Mena
Mouse Click
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:35:00 -
[261]
sadly in order to make alliance bleed, you need to hurt their pos networks. which can brings you back to what you wanted to avoid.
roaming gang doesnt hurt an alliance, it may hurts its member who are trying to rat. but on a alliance scale, unless you hit up their moon mining. isk generating poses. your impact is rather minimum. I sell, I buy, I survive |
Kyguard
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:44:00 -
[262]
It basically comes down to this.
People on our side of the fence understand the other side and don't want to be there. People on your side of the fence don't understand the other side and that's why they're still there.
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TylerJames
The Wild Cardz
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:53:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Ky Mena and in this case, it is pretty clear that INSRG is shaping up to be a BOB front force in the north, while your standing may not reflect that, your hostility towards the NC is the same.
I see what you did there.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 15:58:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Ky Mena sadly in order to make alliance bleed, you need to hurt their pos networks.
Yep. Sadly few want to fight a pos war. So they bring as many people as possible to finish the job that much faster.
A large alliance based out of Venal? Without much pos infrastructure of their own? That docks and logs when a large gang sweeps by? That does roaming nano gang ops into adjacent alliance space? That complains about the blobs whenever they lose? Tell me we haven't seen this before. Next you're going to announce a campaign against Hydra...
The two ways to threaten isk making is to A) attack moon mining pos, B) prevent ratting/mining. Most alliance members have learned to bend with the wind. If hostiles are in system they don't rat/mine. They jump to another clear system and resume there. You can't be everywhere. Generally a few people are disrupted. Some that can't scout or check local or ganked/blobbed. Life moves on.
What you're promising is drama free pvp for both sides. Excellent.
Originally by: Kyguard People on our side of the fence understand the other side and don't want to be there. People on your side of the fence don't understand the other side and that's why they're still there.
... And yet you made a grab for pos/sov/stations? You lost and so now you don't want it?
I think everyone understands each other. Everyone has been without a home at some point. Most want to logon after work and see a bit of stability. They want infrastructure to simplify logistics. Sometimes they want to shoot their way out of a station. Sometimes they want a quiet corner to relax.
There is a reason why npc space isn't highly contested.
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Kaleeb
Gods Unwanted Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:00:00 -
[265]
Originally by: welsh wizard I haven't really played over the last 2 months and won't be for the forseeable future, summer, gta iv, hating eve, you know the usual... Wish I could say you deserve it NNC but the fact is you don't.
Give em all hell BoB. o7
Welshy!
Just a note that when someone invades the North and the number game is reversed on NNC watch and see who are the first group to come here crying about numbers
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Cptn Chaos
Terror Formers
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:04:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Kyguard It basically comes down to this.
People on our side of the fence understand the other side and don't want to be there. People on your side of the fence don't understand the other side and that's why they're still there.
so basicly "we are better then you"? i had lots of respect for insurg before this, but all the whining about the blob while saying you knew full well what was coming coupled with the im holier then you attitude made that fade away.
im to lazy to pull out that post from darth saying how insurg has changed into an alliance that wants to hold space etc, that has fun fueling poses to his own surprise. and now its, hey we didnt want that space anyway.. yea sure.
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Twoside
Gallente E X O D U S
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:23:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Bitter Puppy lots of bitterness and denial
Seems to me you need a hug. Or a cookie. Here, have both :) |
Tearavygh Quillam
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:27:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Butter Dog
However, if our new mission is to make them bleed, basing from any number of NPC stations in Venal, we can do so very successfully without facing off to their uberblob. It can simply be avoided.
I remember about 3 weeks ago Darth wrote something like "... you're too Euro heavy...". I hate to brake it to you, but we are. I don't see how you will bleed something that is not logged in and that times its POSes when people log in (like you did, of course).
Yeah, lots of words, like the usual... bring it on. We'll have plenty of time to see the aftermath. It's now the case with the last campaign.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:28:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Ky Mena sadly in order to make alliance bleed, you need to hurt their pos networks. which can brings you back to what you wanted to avoid.
Its true that we want to avoid being tied to static assets and not being able to dictate the terms of the engagement.
Its not true that we won't consider assualting POS. Its about delivering a balanced package for us to enjoy. POS shooting can be fun, if they're not your POS :)
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.13 16:33:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam
I remember about 3 weeks ago Darth wrote something like "... you're too Euro heavy...". I hate to brake it to you, but we are. I don't see how you will bleed something that is not logged in and that times its POSes when people log in (like you did, of course).
Well, I think you should think more carefully about what you've just said. We don't need to destroy your POS to wreck your income
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