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Faife
Noctiscion
Twilight Trade Cartel
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:02:00 -
[1]
it's weird, in every other mmo/mud i ever played, a carebear is a player who helps others, usually in an RP fashion. it had nothing to do with risk vs safety or anything else, but was just someone went out of his way to be nice to new players.
it's a term of insult cause people don't generally like newbs being helped, but not a particularly aggressive one
i wonder if the eve meaning is cause it's taken as a given that no one really helps people all that much, and so the generic mmo insult had to change in order to still apply. whereas in a mud it's a "quit wasting time on tourists and go back to what we were doing", in eve it's more of a "quit playing in a way that minimizes risk".
just random pondering while staring at a gate. cheers.
fake edit:
i'm 95% certain that these forums exist only because so much of eve is spent waiting
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Pax Ratlin
Gallente
Woodland Larch
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:15:00 -
[2]
I think the insult has less to do with the specific meaning of 'carebear' and has more to do with EVE being 5 years old and in those 5 years has evolved, adapted and become one of the MMO's with the broadest scope for multiple paly styles in a single environment.
Because of this, and the pace at which this is occuring, there has slowly been growing a rift between those who feel the evolution of EVE is going in the wrong direction and those who want to go in that direction, only faster.
The truth is this conflict is never going to go away, is never going to be resolved and will plague the forums and EVE in varying degrees of viciousness for years.
But the good news is that the game is evolving (it won't stop doing that) thus ensuring it a long and productive life, the player base is increasing and more importantly this 'battle royale' is an excellent source of fuel for the trolls.
Enjoy!
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:20:00 -
[3]
Eh?
First off EVE is PvP centric where most other MMOs are mostly PvE (barring the few PvP servers but that is a distinctly opt-in option). As such they simply do not have the risk we experience here.
Second, I completely disagree that people in EVE do not help much. Hell, I've had people who podded me chat me up and give me tips on where I went wrong and how to avoid it. EVE has tons of player created web sites, spreadsheets, ship fitting lists, market tools and so on not to mention an in-game help channel that is always populated by knowledgeable players. We have EVE University which is a player run corp dedicated to newbs, Agony Unleashed which gives PvP classes and, of course, these forums. Just look at the new player section...questions are answered in very short order.
So I'd say EVE, perhaps more than any online game I have ever seen, is exceptionally helpful towards its new players.
That leaves us back to carebears who are defined here as players who avoid PvP AND believe they should never face it under any circumstances unless they explicitly agree to it (which of course they have by undocking but I think you know what I mean). Used more loosely it applies to industrialists/merchants.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:24:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Faife
whereas in a mud it's a "quit wasting time on tourists and go back to what we were doing", in eve it's more of a "quit playing in a way that minimizes risk".
Being a carebear has nothing to do with minimizing risk. Pirates minimize risk. Carebear is an attitude. Carebears are people who want to play EvE solo, who would rather just run missions or rat all day long and never have to deal with others who would war-deck or suicide-gank them. It is when they beg CCP to protect their intentional self-isolation by nerfing others that we despise them.
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[insert signature here] |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Faife
whereas in a mud it's a "quit wasting time on tourists and go back to what we were doing", in eve it's more of a "quit playing in a way that minimizes risk".
Being a carebear has nothing to do with minimizing risk. Pirates minimize risk. Carebear is an attitude. Carebears are people who want to play EvE solo, who would rather just run missions or rat all day long and never have to deal with others who would war-deck or suicide-gank them. It is when they beg CCP to protect their intentional self-isolation by nerfing others that we despise them.
It should be noted there are carebear pirates (piebears). Using your definition of it being an "attitude" (which I agree with) it is by no means confined only to those who do not want to shoot people. Some people want to shoot fish in a barrel and never have any actual risk to themselves. Frankly I find them even more annoying than your run-of-the-mill carebear.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Gealbhan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:38:00 -
[6]
I've done the player corp/0.0 thing, now I'm in an npc corp doing my own thing but i still keep in touch with my 0.0 pals.
one day i will go back to 0.0 but for now I'm mining and missioning for salvage to build things.
"Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium. |
Voodoo Mistross
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:40:00 -
[7]
ummmm.....What where we talking about
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Gealbhan
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Voodoo Mistross
ummmm.....What where we talking about
I'm trying to decide what does it make me, lmao.
Carebear or NullSecBear?
"Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium. |
Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.05.14 03:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gealbhan
I'm trying to decide what does it make me, lmao.
Carebear or NullSecBear?
Neither. If you were a NoSec Carebear, you'd be out there ratting and logging off as soon as local showed someone else in system. If you were a standard Carebear, you wouldnt want to go back to o.o with your pals where the bad men can get you.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.14 04:46:00 -
[10]
In GW (arguably not a real MMO), "carebear" generally meant PvE player. So the usage you're talking about is not universal to all MMOs. I don't remember hearing the term in MUDs (and I played a lot of them).
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Everyone Dies
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.14 05:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Faife
whereas in a mud it's a "quit wasting time on tourists and go back to what we were doing", in eve it's more of a "quit playing in a way that minimizes risk".
Being a carebear has nothing to do with minimizing risk. Pirates minimize risk. Carebear is an attitude. Carebears are people who want to play EvE solo, who would rather just run missions or rat all day long and never have to deal with others who would war-deck or suicide-gank them. It is when they beg CCP to protect their intentional self-isolation by nerfing others that we despise them.
It should be noted there are carebear pirates (piebears). Using your definition of it being an "attitude" (which I agree with) it is by no means confined only to those who do not want to shoot people. Some people want to shoot fish in a barrel and never have any actual risk to themselves. Frankly I find them even more annoying than your run-of-the-mill carebear.
This
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.14 06:12:00 -
[12]
EON titled me King of Carebears, wonder what that means...
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
Futtbucker
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Posted - 2008.05.14 06:24:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Futtbucker on 14/05/2008 06:25:26
Carebears = anyone benefiting from NPC's with the least risk to that person or persons wellfare.
Not very PVP centric when NPC's are involved.
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Riethe
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
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Posted - 2008.05.14 06:28:00 -
[14]
I think in the other MMOs you simply misunderstood the term.
They're the people that are on the blue servers (or the servers without pvp)
The people that stick to harvesting / crafting
They Generally don't reach the maximum level, or if they do, it took 6 years
They don't raid, don't do any of the hard, time consuming content, etc
In eve, it is the same. The people that stick to mining, industry, etc, mostly highsec, maybe very little lowsec for a courier mission or a trade route.
These people may also be more likely to be helpful and nice--but that's not the reason for their title, that's just typical to people that follow these kinds of play styles.
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Stan Sui
Gallente
Entropy Systems Mining Co.
Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2008.05.14 07:41:00 -
[15]
So, the carebears are nice helpful people, and that would make the pirates/gankbears, etc, the bad people.
I can live with that definition. 
We're sorry........Something Happened !!!!! |
cal nereus
Koshaku
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.14 07:45:00 -
[16]
The cartoon Carebears was definitely about helping others, not about minimizing risk. Eve changed the definition. It just happens. Culture, slang, and all that jazz.
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Join BH-DL
Skills |
Thenoran
Caldari
Knights of MADD
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.14 07:57:00 -
[17]
I'm not always intent on shooting 24/7 so I do Industry as well.
Doesn't mean I won't gang up with my alliance or friends and have some fun in Lowsec or 0.0
Carebears are not Industrialists, its those in Hulks mining in 1.0 & 0.9 and not going anywhere else due to even the slighest risk, whining about ore thieves and whatnot instead.
Might be partially caused by the fact that 0.0 with all its space has hundreds of empty systems gaurded for no reason so you can't go there unless you're in a big alliance.
Industry in Lowsec? lol...not until Nocxium is back up to 500+ ISK.
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Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
GB Man
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Posted - 2008.05.14 09:29:00 -
[18]
Terms are only specific to the community using them. Some terms are popular enough to have multiple communities using them. Carebear in Eve's sense is someone who plays strictly in High-sec to avoid pvp.
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Solasta Kovacs
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.14 09:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: GB Man
Terms are only specific to the community using them. Some terms are popular enough to have multiple communities using them. Carebear in Eve's sense is someone who plays strictly in High-sec to avoid pvp.
Its rather broader than that. Its a reference to an entire outlook / approach to the game and playstyle rather than just to high sec dwellers. Most of the big 0.0 alliances which have collapsed in recent times have done so largely as a result of a large proportion of carebears in the ranks.
I would consider the term to generally apply to players who see the making of isk to buy bigger shiny toys as the end in itself, and who will happily farm, mine etc primarily for their own benefit, whether in 0.0 or high sec. This is, as opposed to people who make isk purely to fund their combat operations and for whom the pew pew takes priority at pretty much all times.
A carebear's reaction to a report of hostiles is to wonder whether he can safely carry on making isk, or whether he needs to hide. A non carebear's reaction is to wonder whether he has time to dock up his isk making ship and get to the action and shoot stuff. In fact, the non carebear is probably out hunting rather than chaining rats anyway, unless he has a specific combat need to make some isk.
A big generalisation - but you see the point. |
Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.14 11:36:00 -
[20]
then there are 2 types of PVPers, thoe that hunt for the kill and leave the isk loot behind ( killmail focus) then there are those that select their engagements as a means to attain more ingame economic benefit.
Then there is the blob that sits around for hours and then engages in laggy ctd type engagements over territory for their masters
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Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.14 11:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Faife
it's weird, in every other mmo
Wait wait wait wait.. OTHER MMO's? Why would anyone want one of those? Madness!
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.05.14 12:22:00 -
[22]
There are some true carebears in Eve , people actively helping newbies with no profit to themselves. I met some in my first days , this saved me a lot of time to play the short trial.
One day , I will track them down and ransom their pods. No good deed goes unpunished 
Originally by: Bloody Puppy
because it's a good game
because it's a good game
because it's a good gameeeeee
ccp gonna nerf it
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Zev'Nar
Carebear Salvagers Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:51:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Zev''Nar on 14/05/2008 19:52:12
Someone who uses the game mechanics to avoid Player Vs. Player
Conflict because that is not the type of gameplay they enjoy.
That tends to really PO the PVP part of the community.
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Alora Venoda
GalTech
Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2008.05.14 20:08:00 -
[24]
in WoW carebears can be highly noted for seeing an enemy player and not attacking them, but instead being nice to them or just ignoring them. of course, EVE does not have such involuntary conflicts like WoW does. even when factional warfare arrives, it will still be opt-in.
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Ioci
Gallente
Ioci Exploration
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Posted - 2008.05.14 20:15:00 -
[25]
Ioci is a Null Sec Anti-Pirate. I PvP on the drop of a hat, have a huge KOS list and won't hesitate to high sec suicide a player if I think it will work. That said, I won't pop a barge, really don't like to pop haulers and would rather take out military targets. Noob wannabe pirates in harmless (to me) ships usually get ignored unless they scram me and force combat.
I think Carebear has changed over time in definition in Eve and the use it gets on the forums doesn't reflect in game. It's usually a lame attempt to flame or take down an argument with no grasp of game play style.
As far as risk, I agree. It has nothing to do with carebear or Pirate. 1/3 HIC, 1/3 Interceptor, 1/3 HAC (usually Vaga) and a force recon scout or 2. All nano'ed, burning thier fittings, drive by sniper fleet, log-offski at kill points. That's the typical 12 man blob for pirates. They hate to lose and get very sensetive when they do, coming back in huge numbers. Risk and carebear don't have anything in common. |
Fwaps Continuously
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Posted - 2008.05.15 01:44:00 -
[26]
well... as far as I'm concerned the carebear tag is just another term intended to goad/offend others. I regard myself as an archetypal carebear - my caldari toon is in a mission orientated corp, helping new players, advising them on how to fit ships and allowing new players to "help me" in level 4's - giving them a share of loot and standings increases, etc. Of course, the pirates are looking for their sickbags 
But, my caldari toon has an awful lot of isk from missions and, since this factional warfare thing has been talked about, has been cross-training Gallente ships and has a range of these ships, from Thorax (x5) to mega (x3), fully fitted in the very base he pops out of if he ever get's podded. In short, I'm looking forward to this change - it will add a bit of excitement. Am I still a carebear - yes, am I typical - I really hope so.
I will LOL bigtime if we ever see a post on these forums from the typical bedroom hardman (pirate) complaining that he (or she) is docked, unable to leave their station because of all the "carebears" 
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Xero Max
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Posted - 2008.05.15 02:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gealbhan
for now I'm mining and missioning for salvage to build things.
So true for so many and it is beautiful side of Eve, indeed
This type of peaceful, productive and prosperous existence is the sole reason a lot of (non pvp-er) people are playing Eve, and something CCP is certainly aware of. Because these players are most likely gone with the next respectable sci-fi mmo that releases with an equal or more interesting tradeskill system, market and economy. (And that's not even taking into account if it were also tied to a huge franchise such as Star wars or Star Trek.) Maybe then we'll see if the remaining mostly-pvp-oriented playerbase can acheive their carebear-free utopia.
But if you try to force these players into PvP, which is 100% opposite of the aspect of Eve they are here for, they will just leave before that next mmo. So at least CCP will not do anything to drive them away, may as well keep this segment of customers as long as possible. But wonder how much of the playerbase that is...a third?
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Sloppy Podfarts
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Posted - 2008.05.15 04:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Riethe
harvesting / crafting
FTW
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TimMc
Gallente
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.05.15 06:22:00 -
[29]
Carebear = someone with no interest in PvP. prefer riskless missions and mining. In eve they usually stay in NPC corps to avoid wardecs.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.05.15 06:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
[arebear is an attitude. Carebears are people who want to play EvE solo, who would rather just run missions or rat all day long and never have to deal with others who would war-deck or suicide-gank them. It is when they beg CCP to protect their intentional self-isolation by nerfing others that we despise them.
I wouldn't even grace those with the title of Carebears. Partly since there isn't anything they actually care about, except maybe getting that CNR... 
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