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fix for local, THIS WINS EVE

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Author	Topic
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:37:00 - [1] leave local. simple. remove player list. easy. local problem. solved. (ha! no run ons!) Seriously, the whole ordeal with local, is being able to see EVERY player in system. This isn't good, makes intel less important (to the ratters i see daily who safe spot and cloak). Its an easy change, and one i could see being done with minimal changes. puts on flame suit Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:39:00 - [2] Thursday's local thread: check
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Thursday's local thread: check hehe, noticed it was the first as well. now all we need are, nano, amarr being too uber, and shield tanking for noobs. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:42:00 - [4] No that will not work. As much as you might not like local it is a business necessity for CCP. At this point it can't be removed without impacting their business in a significant manner. To replace it you would need another system with minimal effort that did the same thing and thus you might as well keep local rather than wasting programming time.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:43:00 - [5] Originally by: El'Niaga No that will not work. As much as you might not like local it is a business necessity for CCP. At this point it can't be removed without impacting their business in a significant manner. To replace it you would need another system with minimal effort that did the same thing and thus you might as well keep local rather than wasting programming time. how is local a business necessity for ccp? Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:48:00 - [6] Without it they'd lose a large portion of their playerbase. Perhaps you forget the error that happened a while back like a year or two where local was gone for about a day. It wasn't an error it was a test, it was decided they couldn't feasible run the game without it due to the outcry so it was restored.
Divad Ginleek Gallente Gateway Industries House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:25:00 - [7] The problem with removing local is that it ends up making things way too easy for griefers and pirates to operate, without any balancing factor. and this in turn will split the non-pvp oriented player base in 2 directions. some leave the game, others will give up mining and manufacturing in favor of the pirate life themselves. this has the undesired effect of reducing the available targets for pirates, with everyone in pimped PVP ships. sure, it'll be fun for a while. but then the prices will start to go up on everything, because only the large alliances will be able to secure their operations enough to mine or transport anything. and we all know what happens when a small group of people control all the resources... Then the boredom of killing the same old ships over and over comes in, because theres always a preferred ship and fit for PVP, and EVERYONE will start using it. then the only way to win at PVP will be to have rare faction mods fitted, so EVE becomes farm-online as everyone camps the regions officers spawn in... Ladies and gentlemen, i give you WoW! Im not a pirate. but it seems to me that a player who makes their living by taking from others would want there to be plenty of carebears in "safe" space so they have the chance of catching one off guard every now and then. why suggest things that would endanger the carebear species as a whole? we have to protect our wildlife! (This is based off the assumption that misguided pirates are the ones wanting local gone, so they can sneak up on ratters and miners unannounced. if there is any other 'valid' reason other than that, i am not aware.) ::insert witty signature here::
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:25:00 - [8] Edited by: Grendelsbane on 15/05/2008 07:27:56 Quote: Without it they'd lose a large portion of their playerbase. Perhaps you forget the error that happened a while back like a year or two where local was gone for about a day. It wasn't an error it was a test, it was decided they couldn't feasible run the game without it due to the outcry so it was restored. You still didn't answer why they 'couldn't feasibly run the game'. Please elaborate. I don't put much stock into widespread outcries, given the sorts of spineless whiners that populate some sectors of space. As for the non-PvP playerbase, they live in empire space already, so I don't see how this would affect them anyways. If you're still worried about that, what about removing the pilot list in local (save for those who speak of course) in 0.0 space, but leaving it in empire or in hi-sec?
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Grendelsbane You still didn't answer why they 'couldn't feasibly run the game'. Please elaborate. I don't put much stock into widespread outcries, given the sorts of spineless whiners that populate some sectors of space. What happened during the mentioned event was that it was (after a couple of hours) brutally clear that it gave the attacker an overwhelming advantage. The attacker only had to jump in, scan once or maybe a couple of times to see if there were any targets. The defender had to continuously press the scan button every 5 seconds. Its the good old Lion vs. Antelope scenario. If it becomes too easy for the lions to catch the Antelope's, soon there are no more, and then what are the lions to do? The current system is actually fairly well balanced (not perfect), and nobody has really come up with a good alternative. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:41:00 - [10] Or just delayed entry. Also unlink Ctrl+Q and remove the X and force a ESC-Quit timer on 30 sec... or just leave it like it is. Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar?

Parsival Minmatar The Avalon Foundation Delta.Green	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Kerfira and nobody has really come up with a good alternative. How about don't try to play EVE solo? There that was simple wasn't it? Scouts on gates and one decent cov ops pilot will provide plenty of warning for low sec antelope behaviour.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente aurorae pacificas	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:46:00 - [12] Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 15/05/2008 07:49:31 Originally by: Divad Ginleek The problem with removing local is that it ends up making things way too easy for griefers and pirates to operate, without any balancing factor. I know, I know. If only ccp invented like, an uber police force to protect people until they got the hang of eve, like a "protected zone" or something, even if it was only in a large proportion of the actual systems. Than people could enter the "unprotected zone" which would have way better stuff in it but they would have to fight for it, rather than be given it on a plate with local intel. If only huh? Originally by: Divad Ginleek Then the boredom of killing the same old ships over and over comes in, because theres always a preferred ship and fit for PVP, and EVERYONE will start using it. then the only way to win at PVP will be to have rare faction mods fitted, so EVE becomes farm-online as everyone camps the regions officers spawn in... Ladies and gentlemen, i give you WoW! .... Have you even been in low/null sec? Have you logged onto the tranq server even? Originally by: Divad Ginleek Im not a pirate. but it seems to me that a player who makes their living by taking from others would want there to be plenty of carebears in "safe" space so they have the chance of catching one off guard every now and then. What about players that like the idea of a harsh environment and non-consentual pvp? I wouldnt consider myself a "pirate" because I dont RP a "pirate". I may or may not ransom, but like every pvp I will loot a wreck. Get off this whole pirate fear thing, there is more to eve pvp than just ganking a miner. The problem is that local provides waaay to much intel, full stop- to both parties. Its a broken mechanic but no one has thought up a decent solution that the majority of the playerbase would be happy with it seems. Personally I think ccp should go with a removal of local without a suitable replacement. When I jump into a system it would be awesome to feel alone, and apprehensive of whats out there. Right now I jump in, know whats there, if its too much, safe up, yadda yadda yadda. With wtz eve went from "Wow, huge game. Wonder whats out there" to "been there, done that". Removing local will definately promote regionalism, people will be less likely to "roam" vast areas where they have no intel. In the long run I think thats whats best for eve. EDIT: The only true issue with removing local would be in the form of hunting War targets, which would be all but impossible. Perhaps Constellation lists could include every pilot, thats probably the easiest way to go about it, though it is certainly another huge nerf to empire wars. Meh.
Arendis The Phoenix Confederacy Raging Phoenix Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:48:00 - [13] Eve is an mmorpg. Chat is important in an mmorpg. Chat is the only way to meet new people, team up with them, go in group (aasuming you are not in a big ass corp or alliance or even just are a new player) Removing chat from an MMO is a big nono, however you turn it it is not right. Yes it's annoying for al the pirates, however like said before it would become TO easy for them.
Parsival Minmatar The Avalon Foundation Delta.Green	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Arendis Eve is an mmorpg. Chat is important in an mmorpg. Chat is the only way to meet new people, team up with them, go in group (aasuming you are not in a big ass corp or alliance or even just are a new player) Removing chat from an MMO is a big nono, however you turn it it is not right. Yes it's annoying for al the pirates, however like said before it would become TO easy for them. It is possible to remove the names and numbers intel without removing the chat. You would still be able to jump into a system and link your contracts.
Tiberius Maddox	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:54:00 - [15] Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Removing local will definately promote regionalism, people will be less likely to "roam" vast areas where they have no intel. In the long run I think thats whats best for eve. How, exactly, would that be a good thing? The only thing that would do is make the conservative half of EVE players far more likely to hole up in high-sec instead of getting out and exploring a little bit.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:55:00 - [16] other than chribba (hi chribba waves) the standard, 'eve wont operate with out local' responses are all too standard. Just like the nano-pilots saying 'theres nothing wrong with nano', when infact there is. It takes PRECISION t2 cruise to even touch most nano ships. While the ishtar at 4km/s+ outruns explosions, and cant be tracked by guns. The normal every day pvp fits already exist. To fight nano ships you have to have nano ships, so everyone nano fits. Everyone crys 'get a rapier', well those of us who would rather SPEC and not cross train too much (i have like 400k sp in something other than caldari), would have to train matari cruiser v, all the nav skills for t2 10mn mwd's, t2 webs, t2 auto cannons, shield upgrades for the extenders, and rig skills for the rigs. Same goes for local. You get in the norm of having local up, not checking scanner, not looking for intel, not checking the map for kills per hour or jumps per hour. You get complacent. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 07:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Tiberius Maddox Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Removing local will definately promote regionalism, people will be less likely to "roam" vast areas where they have no intel. In the long run I think thats whats best for eve. How, exactly, would that be a good thing? The only thing that would do is make the conservative half of EVE players far more likely to hole up in high-sec instead of getting out and exploring a little bit. map->statistics->average pilots in space last hour->print screen, map->statistics->sec status->print screen, compare the 2 screen shots... EVERYONE ALREADY HOLDS UP IN HIGH SEC. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Sahriah BloodStone Caldari Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:11:00 - [18] I had a thought ( i know omg) What if CCP made it similar to this idea: High sec: Local is as it is now - reason: In high sec security is tight, all stations/stargates/faction and concord ships act like radar devices that transmit a 'this ship is in system' signal Low sec: Stations/stargates/POS(maybe a module should be used for this one) act like radar, displaying anything within a XAU in local for EG: If a ship traveled within 1AU of a station passing through or docking in system, he would be displayed in the local channel - this means if your at a planet, you would disappear off radar etc giving some inviability to people 0.0: POS(if it has a radar module)and stations (not sure about gates for 0.0) act as radar displaying people in local if they are in XAU Now we could add a timer, so the pilot appears in local channel for 5min or something even if they pass outside range of the radar object, or it could be instant Thoughts?
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:13:00 - [19] constructive, but it would produce more lag i think. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Oniko Sengir The Illuminati. Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:16:00 - [20] you're a failure. Latest Video

Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Oniko Sengir you're a failure. instead of just posting 'you're a failure.' why not prove your point. Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:22:00 - [22] Sorry, I like to chat up new people in Local, I like it. And as EVE is designed to follow MY requirements in particular Local channel will stay. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:26:00 - [23] read the post, the local CHAT stays, the PLAYER LIST goes... god READ THE DAMN POST Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Tiberius Maddox	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Oniko Sengir you're a failure. What a scintillating analysis.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Parsival Originally by: Kerfira and nobody has really come up with a good alternative. How about don't try to play EVE solo? There that was simple wasn't it? Scouts on gates and one decent cov ops pilot will provide plenty of warning for low sec antelope behaviour. Her's a few clues about why your idea is just terrible: - Scouting a gate for hours is boring. - If you have to share the isk earned by ratters with scout, then just stop ratting, and start doing missions in high-sec, that will be more fun overall and more profitable. Any way you look at it, suppression of intel leads to a short slaughter, which will send a lot of 0.0 players back in an already overcrowded empire, and CCP is smart enough to know that. ------------------------------------------
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Parsival Originally by: Kerfira and nobody has really come up with a good alternative. How about don't try to play EVE solo? There that was simple wasn't it? Scouts on gates and one decent cov ops pilot will provide plenty of warning for low sec antelope behaviour. Her's a few clues about why your idea is just terrible: - Scouting a gate for hours is boring. - If you have to share the isk earned by ratters with scout, then just stop ratting, and start doing missions in high-sec, that will be more fun overall and more profitable. Any way you look at it, suppression of intel leads to a short slaughter, which will send a lot of 0.0 players back in an already overcrowded empire, and CCP is smart enough to know that. use an alt... i just sold mine, EVERYONE HAS ALTS, ITS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU! puts on foil hat Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Roxanna Kell Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:36:00 - [27] You never get ccp to remove local, as 99% of the players are care bears pr P*ys, The only reason many people pvp its because of local, you can see what you ll be up against, and scout next systems near by to be extra sure. So if there was no local, eve would have been as lost as you can get in a forest and people wont move anywhere without a scout or escorts. End of the day, this is a business and CCP would make sure they get as many customers as possible, So as much as i like to see local remove,d i doubt it will ever happen. EVER. Quote:** There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Ahh, the mandatory "I fail at catching ratters/miners/haulers, it's all locals fault" thread. <--cut paste--> All the people who say nerf local just want easy ganks of ratters and miners and industrials ... for some people this is the epitomy of PVP, for others it is lower than a slugs ass. The thing is if people say local is an intel tool, all CCP has to do is make a special probe (or maybe a new bomb type) that temporarily makes local go empty, BUT you have to be in local to fire it so you will show in local for a bit. So for roaming gangs and up to fleet size you can hide your numbers.... dont go on about bacon, its in progress of being nerfed/already been nerfed according to CCP, just a matter of when it gets implemented in Tranquility. Dont try to talk people into long term game changing solutions to a problem that is short term. (talking about bacon for the dumbasses) For the dudes looking for the cheap ganks, get some skills and find them faster. Others can do it, why cant you? you guys a bit slow or something so you need a big boost to catch that ratting raven? In parting .... nerf cloaks so they use fuel, nerf snakes so they stack with speed mods/gang mods and nerf standings so people in alliances see alliance mates as blue, but EVERYONE else is neutral ... should stop those naptrains who said anything about easy ganks? Originally by: Darla Dawson Quit, and go play wow I slaughter the english language better than a isk farmer. I love you.
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2008.05.15 08:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Zurrar who said anything about easy ganks? YOU did with your whining
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.05.15 09:09:00 - [30] I have to say if you want to get rid of local you will have to come up with a better idea them me spaming the scan button ever 5 sec to see who is near me. CCP already knows local is a problem and has said/implied that they are looking at fixing it. I dont know what the point of these threads are CCP will fix it when they fix it, but in the mean time they arent going to say hum I just saw a great idea on the forums we will just totally remove local. I have to agree with others it just seem that pirates that want local removed just want to beable to breeze into a system and grab a few easy ganks and get a few kill mails.

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