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Sq7
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:29:00 -
[1]
Ugh! GMs are useless.
Anyway... I was pointed here so I will try.
Lofty's scam is a de facto, ligua franca exploit of game mechanics. Yet the GMs tell me it is not.
You invite a target to a gang. No warning. You gang jump to a safe spot. <then while you jump....> You invite another guy. And another guy who is at war with the the second guy. All hell is allowed to break loose.
(or something like this. it is all a bit involved for my taste)
THAT is an exploit of game mechanics.
Mission ships. We all know how much people tend to invest in their mission ships. The ransoms are rediculous and invariably paid when possible. If not paid you lose your pride and joy. A fellow corp member paid a bounty of 300mil isk just earlier today.
It is fair to say that you should never join fleet with anybody you do not know. This is the truth as things stand. But it is not good.
I want to know what the point of high sec is. You've got a 0.0 sandbox where everything goes. Then you've got the low-sec badlands where the rules can be bent. Then there's high sec. Which one would think is a place for those who don't want to bother with all the PVPing (maybe just for a while). The only thing is that it is not. There are even ways to steal in high sec without fear. But the stealing aside.
I would honestly rather just see war deccing go than to invalidate the usefulness of the function where you can form fleets with random strangers. Eve would be a better game if random fleets in high sec were safe.
With faction war there will be little bits of sandbox strewn all over the place for those who crave it. Plenty of space for piracy there. I'm looking forward to it myself. Darn it's way past my bed time.
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Lenaria
Caldari Ursa Ritor
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:41:00 -
[2]
no brain = lot of pain? I guess these are same peoples whining about hi-sec ganks, HAC's in low sec, bubles in 0.0...
In short, RTFM. ==============================================
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Efdi
Minmatar Brannigan's Law
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Posted - 2008.05.19 00:50:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sq7
Lofty's scam is a de facto, ligua franca exploit of game mechanics.
a.) I'm pretty sure the French really don't care about this. b.) If GM says it isn't an exploit, it isn't one. Sorry to interrupt your little rant with a bit of logic, you may proceed. _______________________________ Yes, I am an alt. No, I can't post with my main; he's forum banned. Yes, I will be happy to smack you with my main when I'm unbanned. |
Constance Harme
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Posted - 2008.05.19 01:03:00 -
[4]
There's always a risk when joining a gang. It's like willfully getting into a car full of strangers and then being driven out to the woods and being shot. You know the risks, so dont get into the car.. gang whatever.
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Zeph Solaris
Legitimate Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:22:00 -
[5]
If you dont want to enter a gang with war targets, be the boss and keep the fleet closed. You know exactly who gets in.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.19 04:22:00 -
[6]
The point of highsec is its safeR, not safe.
If when you exit warp you see anouther ship you dident expect, leave the gang, and be ready to leave the gang while your in warp. If someone joins the gang you were not expecting, leave the gang.
True you might not be able to do it fast enouth, and its not really "fair" that you don't get a msgbox saying a waring party has joined the gang, but then Eve never has been very "fair" -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
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Ferria
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:09:00 -
[7]
1. Don't join a gang with anyone you don't know so well you would trust them to watch your kids while you got to the movies.
2. If your at war, always watch local.
3. CCP Has always said that lying, stealing, extortion, ransoming, and generally being evil is allowed. as a note I remind you of the incident where two guys spent a year infiltrating a corp, then ripped it off for all it had.
4. Don't be a ******
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.19 05:58:00 -
[8]
this useless thread doesn't even belong in this forum
before you ragequit take care to post in C&P ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.19 06:46:00 -
[9]
This definetly belongs in C&P.
If people didn't fly faction BS with billions isk worth of modules (when T2 does the job perfectly fine) then I doubt we'd even know the term "lofty".
Originally by: CCP Casqade Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 07:30:00 -
[10]
You are quite correct Gang Mechanics are broken. I want to join a wardec gang and be able to fire first. This is not possible therefore needs to be fixed so people who want to help someone in a war can do so.
Otherwise the whole gang wardec thing is pretty stupid and is only useful for scams. Either have wars fully transfer over so the person joining can fire first without getting concorded, or do not have wars transfer at all. --
Billion Isk Mission |
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Belatu Cadro
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Posted - 2008.05.19 08:56:00 -
[11]
The fleet invite clearly states that you are joining a Fleet that is atv war, you also recieve a warning of the fact and the invite clearly explains that you will become a war target, without all these warnings it may have been considered an exploit, but with them, your just not paying attention.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 09:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:38:03
Originally by: Belatu Cadro The fleet invite clearly states that you are joining a Fleet that is atv war, you also recieve a warning of the fact and the invite clearly explains that you will become a war target, without all these warnings it may have been considered an exploit, but with them, your just not paying attention.
Actually, this window is incorrect, since the joiner cannot fire first. CCP should fix gang wardecs so the person joining it can fire first without being concorded. I mean, that is the whole point of transfering wardecs in a gang right? So a bunch of noobs can form up a posse with random people to help them right?
Also it is possible to never see these warnings. E.G A squad commander or whoever decides to invite a wardec person. Nobody else in gang gets a warning message.
What I would like to see is gangs fixed so thaat joining a wardec gang is like a real wardec where you can fight people and they show up on overview/local as wardec targets. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Avan Strega
Thunderstruck.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:07:00 -
[13]
yes, you get a warning. the warning reads something like "join gang? nobody in this gang is currently involved in any war, but if someone else joins this gang who is at war you may become a valid target. do you still wish to join this gang?" of course if you don't read it, or if you sometime checked the box saying "don't show me this message again" then you have nobody to blame but yourself for not knowing the game mechanics Thunderstruck is recruiting |
Lea Re
Caldari Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:44:00 -
[14]
Now... Where to start ?
Yes, the mechanics are a bit broken.
But
There's a nice unofficial rule in eve. Fly only what you can afford to lose! You can do lvl4 missions in a t2 fitted ships just fine. I don't see a point in fitting extremely expensive mods to fight rats. Lvl4 missions are profitable enough and there is no need to do them that 10% quicker.
Eve is not a friendly place where you can harvest isk all day and night without the risk of getting popped, bear that in mind. It was never supposed to be.
There are ways of defending yourself everywhere, and also, loftys scam is so widely known that noone should fall for it. If you have... shame on you.
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:49:00 -
[15]
If someone asks for help then just make sure YOU create the fleet.... ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 10:57:00 -
[16]
There are a lot of easy ways to avoid this scam, though it does require some basic ability to think. I choose not to reveal how you easily can dodge it (and in some cases get concord on those who perform it) because it's so much more amusing to watch the little bears fret about griefing and oMzGzHa4xPloits.
Black Hand.
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Khadur
Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.05.19 11:02:00 -
[17]
Ugh! YOU are useless.
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mamolian
Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 11:03:00 -
[18]
Bit of common sense chaps..
You see some shady guy at the entrance to a dark alley asking for help! Oh god wont someone please help me.. Oh sir you are so kind.. its down here.. follow me *KABLAMO*.. wake up in hospital minus a kidney..
With that said.. Whether or not the GM's agree it as exploit of game mechanics right now.. is not to say that will always be the case.. Look at POS bowling as an example. If enough people bring it to the attention of the GM's/Devs, I'm pretty sure the manpower can be assigned to examine and or fix the broken game mechanic. -----------
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.05.19 11:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 09:38:03
Originally by: Belatu Cadro The fleet invite clearly states that you are joining a Fleet that is atv war, you also recieve a warning of the fact and the invite clearly explains that you will become a war target, without all these warnings it may have been considered an exploit, but with them, your just not paying attention.
Actually, this window is incorrect, since the joiner cannot fire first. CCP should fix gang wardecs so the person joining it can fire first without being concorded. I mean, that is the whole point of transfering wardecs in a gang right? So a bunch of noobs can form up a posse with random people to help them right?
Also it is possible to never see these warnings. E.G A squad commander or whoever decides to invite a wardec person. Nobody else in gang gets a warning message.
What I would like to see is gangs fixed so thaat joining a wardec gang is like a real wardec where you can fight people and they show up on overview/local as wardec targets.
That would even be worse and would open a whole can of forum whining....
You are at war with a corp and are sitting on a station in empire. There is a war target in system and you are waiting for him to come out hoping to nail him. You have your corp members or your scouts in the systems around you making sure no help arrives for your war target or to notify you when it becomes dangerous.
There are quite a bunch of neutrals around the station as well but you don't care about them.
Suddenly, all these neutrals turn into valid war targets and start shooting you. Before you know what happened, you're in station in a new clone. The guy in the station organized a fleet and waited till the last moment to join that fleet from within the station. Within seconds, all the neutrals outside that were in the fleet turned into wartargets that are allowed to fire the first shot.
It's better the way it is, they become war targets but you have to fire on them first for them to particapte.
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FourthStorm
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.05.19 11:54:00 -
[20]
hmm, another tip is to look into the forums about Lofty's activities. Search for his name. He boasts his conquests a lot, so it shouldn't be to hard.
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Nicholas Barker
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.05.19 11:57:00 -
[21]
♥ lofty ---
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Rhak Amharr
Minmatar Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: mamolian Bit of common sense chaps..
You see some shady guy at the entrance to a dark alley asking for help! Oh god wont someone please help me.. Oh sir you are so kind.. its down here.. follow me *KABLAMO*.. wake up in hospital minus a kidney..
Except that carebears don't see Eve as a dark alley, but more like candy mountain cave. The result is the pretty much the same though.
Shunnnnnnnnnn.
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Rolf Smith
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:19:00 -
[23]
Can I have your stuff?
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.05.19 12:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Belatu Cadro The fleet invite clearly states that you are joining a Fleet that is atv war, you also recieve a warning of the fact and the invite clearly explains that you will become a war target, without all these warnings it may have been considered an exploit, but with them, your just not paying attention.
You didn't read the OP and clearly don't understand what is happening.
A: gang boss, not at war B: victim, at war or not, who cares C: accomplice to A, at war with D D: accomplice to A, at war with C
A invites B to "help him with his mission". The fleet invite B receives clearly states than the fleet is NOT at war. It however states that should anyone at war join it all fleet members would be at risk. And that's what happen after the victim (B) joined the fleet, fleet boss (A) invite someone at war in fleet (C) and victim (B) is attacked by the new entrant "enemy" (D).
Only protection against that is not to join any fleet, whether at war or not.
CCP of course could implement non warring fleet, that would be locked to warring people, so that casual gamers can help each other in missions. They'll get to it right after they fixed the overview. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Kehmor
Caldari PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.19 13:40:00 -
[25]
This scam isn't really a problem as anyone likely to be targetted has been laying long enough to know better and has also been playing long enough that they shouldn't be ***** footing it around in high sec anyway. - Violence isn't the answer, it is the question. The answer is yes. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 15:24:28 Edited by: Lord WarATron on 19/05/2008 15:23:18
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen
Suddenly, all these neutrals turn into valid war targets and start shooting you. Before you know what happened, you're in station in a new clone. The guy in the station organized a fleet and waited till the last moment to join that fleet from within the station. Within seconds, all the neutrals outside that were in the fleet turned into wartargets that are allowed to fire the first shot.
It's better the way it is, they become war targets but you have to fire on them first for them to particapte.
Thats exactly what happens currently to the victim. You do relise why the current version of the lofty scam is popular right?
Non-wardec person forms gang with another non-wardec person. Thinking they are safe, the scammer invites wardecees to the game and thus without any warning windows poping up, everyone is fair game. Boo Hoo, nobody is going to cry anyone a river.
You are being chased and ask some locals to help you fight. you might hire them, or they might want to help. They gang up true posse style. I can imagine A-Team stlye mercs, flying about from region to region, ready to lend a helping hand to anyone who needs it. This would be pretty great if it wasent for the fact CONCORD kills any A-Team wannabes if they fire first.
What I am saying is that if you accept wardecs being transfered in gang, then make it do what the warning message says and let them shoot valid targets as well as see them in local/overview etc. The current system is broke in that you can only use it to scam people, and not use it for what it was intended - i.e for joining people's posse on the fly by ganging up and going to war.
The current wardec system in gang is half-assed and should be fixed to either
1. Let gang members become full wardec targets and shoot wartargets first without concord attacking 2. Or remove the transfer of wardecs from within gangs.
I have no probs with either. But as it stands, the current wardec system in a gang is only used for scams rather than for setting up a A-Team team style mercs on the fly, or a wild west style posse. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:29:00 -
[27]
If you're insistent on helping strangers, why don't you invite them, instead of them inviting you. Plus you also prevent invites to those pesky 3rd parties with active wars against them.
If you're stupid enough to accept their invitation, then why don't you just leave gang the second you see the 3rd person join it?
I don't get how people fall for this daily. It's amazing.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
The current wardec system in gang is half-assed and should be fixed to either
I hope you're not holding your breath...
Originally by: Lord WarATron
1. Let gang members become full wardec targets and shoot wartargets first without concord attacking 2. Or remove the transfer of wardecs from within gangs.
I kinda dislike option 2 because of gang bonus passing, would create a market for people with high leadership to just sit in systems on the other hand. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:46:00 -
[29]
here is a nice link just for you sq7
and getting killed in lowsec is also an exploit of game mechanics, i mean the empires still own the space and whatnot, just because i didn't read the warning when jumping in to that .4
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Elles D
Caldari Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.19 15:50:00 -
[30]
If you managed to get killed to that, then you are a ******* idiot and deserve to die anyway.
End of. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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