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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 18:52:00 -
[1]
Ok, from what I have read it is not really clear. I am sure in future blogs there will be in answer but the corp is discussing now what to do.
It has been stated that both individuals and corps can sign up to be part of their Faction. My question is really simple, can I support/sign up for my faction as an individual but remain with my Corp or do I have to leave my corp? ________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 18:53:00 -
[2]
Originally by: JamnOne Ok, from what I have read it is not really clear. I am sure in future blogs there will be in answer but the corp is discussing now what to do.
It has been stated that both individuals and corps can sign up to be part of their Faction. My question is really simple, can I support/sign up for my faction as an individual but remain with my Corp or do I have to leave my corp?
No they cant --
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Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.19 18:59:00 -
[3]
Now... this sucks, a lot :(
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:01:00 -
[4]
Thank You - I forgot to check for a new blog today. ________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: JamnOne Thank You - I forgot to check for a new blog today.
not just 1 blog...but 2 new dev blogs today, FYI --
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sarin Adler Now... this sucks, a lot :(
Roll a frigate alt if you have a spare slot. Should only take a week or so to get enough sp to take on the frig warzones and a monthish for a decent crusier.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:07:00 -
[7]
Sure, but I don't understand the reasoning for this, why the hell shouldn't I be able to use my user w/o being forced to leave my corp.
I blame lazy programming and/or wanting me to use more characters (money). ok, enough ranting.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:11:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 19:11:48
Originally by: Sarin Adler Sure, but I don't understand the reasoning for this, why the hell shouldn't I be able to use my user w/o being forced to leave my corp.
I blame lazy programming and/or wanting me to use more characters (money). ok, enough ranting.
Because FW is purposely designed to be seperate from player corp/alliance warfare and politics.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Sertan Deras
Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:14:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 19/05/2008 19:15:02 Because FW is a way for CCP to give the unwashed masses PvP in small doses, without the head ache of having to fix 0.0 PvP and everything that's broken with it.
This is why they don't want entire alliances descending on the FW stuff. They can't even make 0.0 POS warfare fun or playable because of the lag, FW is a way to split up players in to smaller PvP factions where CCP can control the size of the battles.
Basically, it's all a big "screw you" to the mover and shakers of the EVE political landscape (aka 0.0 alliances).
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 19:11:48
Originally by: Sarin Adler Sure, but I don't understand the reasoning for this, why the hell shouldn't I be able to use my user w/o being forced to leave my corp.
I blame lazy programming and/or wanting me to use more characters (money). ok, enough ranting.
Because FW is purposely designed to be seperate from player corp/alliance warfare and politics.
Which would be why half the people who have been paitently waiting for FW the last few years now totally feel alienated by CCP.
Right or wrong choice by CCP, meh I dont care, I wasnt personally intrested in FW anyways, but I have a lot of friends who are really annoyed and making "rabble rabble" outside of these forums. --
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Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:17:00 -
[11]
Is designed to be separated from alliance warfare, but not for corps. Also corps can join if they are not in any alliance, so... why can't players in corps which are not in alliances and 0.0 game join individually, does not make any sense.
Not letting people from RP alliances in will make some people pass it, but not letting individuals joining w/o leaving their corp is way too unpopular, it poses a lot of problems for a lot of corps to join.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 19:06:41
Originally by: Sarin Adler Now... this sucks, a lot :(
Roll a frigate alt if you have a spare slot. Should only take a week or so to get enough sp to take on the frig warzones and a monthish for a decent crusier. As the rats will be weak and the objectives timer based you should have no problems soloing a site or having some of your corp mates do the same as you and get a nice little alt frig gang going.
Stop my Main's training to make a new character and train him up so that he can fly frigates half as well as my Main, who can't fly cruisers, battlecruisers or battleships at all? OR, I could always just leave the corporation that I'm the CEO of to participate with a character that's already trained. OR I could make a whole new account, just to have a character I can participate in FW with. OR I could just do what I'm going to do now, which is watch a few members of my corp contemplate leaving the corp to go do this (I expect 3 or 4 of our less-involved people might) while I'm stuck lurking on the lowsec fringes, ganking anything I can in order to try and ruin the other guy's chances... I appreciate a good RP session just like the next RPer, so I'll probably try my best to not screw it up for any Minmatars, but everyond else will be fair game. (I don't really care about the Gallente, IC or OOC). And then, even if I wanted to take my corporation out of its alliance, we have members of all four races and I'm sure it'd be impossible to get them all to agree to 'serve' just one of the empires, so even that idea is out. Not only would it ruin (in fact, effectively shut down) our industrial wing, it would also splinter the membership along racial lines - simply not an option. I hope that in the next big Empyrean patch, this is changed so that individuals CAN participate without leaving their corporations, because it seems to me that, as it stands, you either need to be in an RP corporation that accepts members of only one or two races, or you need to be corp-less altogether and that just seems so... against everything else about EVE from where I sit. All in all, I really do like the concept, I just wish that this great new system that's meant to make PvP "more accessible" wasn't done in a way that makes it so inaccessible to others... because all of the options currently available to me to participate in Faction Warfare really aren't options at all. Paragraphs omitted intentionally.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:26:00 -
[13]
Ok, I read the blogs and the quote mentioned above and it doesn't make sense.
Here is what Ginger said in the blog:
Originally by: CCP Ginger To sign up as an individual, you cannot be in a corporation, and therefore, not an alliance.
In the first blog for today, it doesn't say anything about individuals not being able to sign up if you are a member of a corp.
In the second blog it says the following: "The bottom line here is that it's not a technical impossibility for corporations to be a member of both an Alliance and a Militia"
Since it is not a technical impossiblity for a corporation to be a member of both then it should be even easier for a player to be a member of both.
If nothing else, allow a player to sign up for a Faction and by doing this they have access to special agents for mission running. I am sure it is not that hard to flick a switch in the code that says something that JamnOne is an Amarr Loyalist and should have access to these extra agents.
The switch is already in place based on standings now. There are some agents you can't use unless you have a certain standing. Try using a research agent. They even have more requirements.
I think players should be allowed to do both remain in their corp and participate in FW. Just like I also think this should go across all of space 1.0 to 0.0.
Just my 2 cents.
________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 19:31:22
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 19:11:48
Originally by: Sarin Adler Sure, but I don't understand the reasoning for this, why the hell shouldn't I be able to use my user w/o being forced to leave my corp.
I blame lazy programming and/or wanting me to use more characters (money). ok, enough ranting.
Because FW is purposely designed to be seperate from player corp/alliance warfare and politics.
Which would be why half the people who have been paitently waiting for FW the last few years now totally feel alienated by CCP.
Right or wrong choice by CCP, meh I dont care, I wasnt personally intrested in FW anyways, but I have a lot of friends who are really annoyed and making "rabble rabble" outside of these forums.
Look at it from this point of view. Eve has needed some form of 'introductory' pvp for quite a while to get the people who ride the fence on trying pvp to have something officially organized and soloable to do instead of dying horribly in low sec or dying horribly in 0.0 for someone elses cause or greifing pleasure. Alliances have been harping on getting the 80% empire playerbase out in low/nullsec for years and tbh this is the first time I've seen something that might actually work.
~Gets solo empire players into low sec in pvp fit ships. ~Encourges teamwork to take over sites from enemy faction players. ~Objectives are hardcoded so the emphasis will be on pew pew instead of machiavellian plots. ~Simulates on a basic easy to understand scale what the nullsec alliance warfare is about.
Sounds like the perfect recruiting ground for some alliance alts to indentify the aggressive players that stand out from the masses that up to this point would never have been noticed.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:34:00 -
[15]
So is it supposed to be soloable or is it supposed to ~Encourges teamwork to take over sites from enemy faction players?
I'm lost.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Havohej So is it supposed to be soloable or is it supposed to ~Encourges teamwork to take over sites from enemy faction players?
I'm lost.
The sites themselve can be soloed if no player enemys are present thus if your the solo empire type you can participate and contribute to your factions glory. Teamwork come in when you start to get several faction in the same system vying over contol of the key sites and final control bunker. So in effect FW caters to all types of play. Basically the timer based objectives effectively cut out the *need* for blobs but allow for them if you have to knock an enemy off a site. All I see so far is win tbh.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Jakus Cemendur
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:42:00 -
[17]
Well if they did let individuals in any corp sign up to faction warfare that would bring up other problems, like different individuals in the same corp being parts of different factions. It makes sense to have a player commit to FW(eg by signig up themselves or by corp signing up) or to stay with their corp(if their corp doesn't join FW). Frankly wanting to be part of FW and not wanting to leave your current corp sounds like wanting the best of everything without wanting to make any difficult choices. ------
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:50:00 -
[18]
Easy for you to say - you haven't got a lot of time and in-game e-work invested in a corp or alliance, judging from your Pator Tech corp ticker. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that as an insult - it's not smack.
Back to the point, though, if the 'solo empire types' want to participate in this PvP, with as popular as the whole thing has been on the forum so far, how often do you expect it to be possible to just go into one of these things and solo it without any other human interference?
Is that going to create new whine threads from solo empire types saying "wahh why can't I do this myself without griefers from the other faction killing me "?
Maybe I'm just missing something... I'm not saying that it isn't full of win - as I stated above in my textblock post, I like the idea in general... but I also feel the one major drawback that it seems to have very keenly due to my place in EVE, and I'm not the only one feeling it. Hopefully the second Empyrean patch will make it more accessible to individuals who have ties to things bigger than their own characters to be able to participate in the new game feature.
A lot of alliances aren't even IN 0.0, that's one point. Another point is, while I completely agree with not wanting the big 0.0 alliances to come in and screw this up (expect goons to make a billion alts and swarm these things in velators and ibises) by overpowering the less experienced competition, I don't see how allowing the individuals to participate individually would create a problem... the people who are actually involved in fighting big, 'meaningful' 0.0 wars aren't going to take the time out to go to highsec/lowsec and RP fighting for the State, nor are they going to take the time out to make alts to play with - they're fighting big 'meaningful' 0.0 wars, after all.
Maybe they WILL open it up on an individual level, maybe they won't... if they don't, I won't be able to participate until somebody destroys TCF, leaving my alliance homeless and forcing my corp back to empire.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.19 19:55:00 -
[19]
There is nothing stopping people like Ushra Kahn or individuals in a corp from taking part in faction warfare in one form or another. This is EVE and most of the fighting will be happening in lowsec, you can kill whoever you like there if you don't mind losing sec status. Personally, I'd rather that Ushra Kahn were involved as paramilitaries than as part of the "official" militias and I know they're considering going that way if the penalties are lowered.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Ghengis Tia
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:03:00 -
[20]
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:06:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 20:06:57
Originally by: Havohej Maybe they WILL open it up on an individual level, maybe they won't... if they don't, I won't be able to participate until somebody destroys TCF, leaving my alliance homeless and forcing my corp back to empire.
Yeah I can understand that. I forget that there are lots of players with only one account who have invested all their sp and time into thier corp and can't easily get away. Props to you all who stand by your corp. But for me I guess I'm the solo empire type who didn't ride the fence on pvp but found the only way to compete effectively pvpwise was to use multiple accounts to have my own personal gangs so as a result I have several 30~40 mil combat alts to choose from to use for FW. Still though from the way the Devs have talked this expansion is more for the empire side than nullsec with its delibrate seperation with player alliance so I don't really see CCP letting someone stay in thier own corp and still participate in FW. Think of the hilarity if corp x had a wardec on corp y and camped sites looking for y to show up with his FW gang. Now its not faction warfare anymore.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
JamnOne
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur Well if they did let individuals in any corp sign up to faction warfare that would bring up other problems, like different individuals in the same corp being parts of different factions. It makes sense to have a player commit to FW(eg by signig up themselves or by corp signing up) or to stay with their corp(if their corp doesn't join FW). Frankly wanting to be part of FW and not wanting to leave your current corp sounds like wanting the best of everything without wanting to make any difficult choices.
I'm not looking for the best of both worlds. The corp I am associated with are friends outside of game. We all have lives other than Eve, even though it is a joke in my corp that Eve is my girlfriend.
Right now my corp is missing over half it's members due to real life events and we can't just say this is what the corp is going to do without their input. So until they can vote and give an opinion why not let those of us who want to do both roles, do both roles? ________________________
Originally by: CCP Wrangler So, it's all my fault.
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia The emphasis on having your own corp and the benefits thereof is the logical step up from solo Eve. Now the big push to FW takes all this and tosses it away.
I've got to dissolve my corp to FW?
No, you can join FW as an entire corp; it works much like joining an alliance. Since you're the CEO, there's nothing stopping you.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
K'uata Sayus
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:22:00 -
[24]
Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 19/05/2008 20:22:47 Maybe you missed my point. By having alts of different factions as part of my corp, whatever the corp does as a part of a faction militia may harm those alts' faction standings.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, please.
(as you can see Ghengis Tia (above) is my main)
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Zeba on 19/05/2008 20:26:20
Originally by: Ghengis Tia The emphasis on having your own corp and the benefits thereof is the logical step up from solo Eve. Now the big push to FW takes all this and tosses it away.
Unfortunately the logical step isn't used much it seems with 80% of the playerbase residing in moastly pvp free empire. With the objectives hardcoded and npc entities running the militia payouts and rewards there is no room for getting scammed by a dishonerable corp. This one thing alone should knock quite a few players off the fence toward pvp and the realization its really ******* fun to do. Hence moar players who want to pvp so you get moar potential members for the 'real' warfare of nullsec.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: K'uata Sayus
Maybe you missed my point. By having alts of different factions as part of my corp, whatever the corp does as a part of a faction militia may harm those alts' faction standings.
I think players' standings impact the corporation's standings (the corp standings gradually move toward the members' average standings, over time), not the other way around. I may be wrong about that. But what's your point? You want to be able to join the Minmatar and murder the Amarr but not take a hit on Amarr faction standings? CCP gives you choices, but you still have to choose.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Nef'Ayr
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:46:00 -
[27]
I wouldn't mind seeing a slight re-tooling of the GCC/Aggression mechanics to allow individual players to get limited access to FW.
Example: I go to the Minnie militia HQ and talk to an agent, wanting a privateer's pass--I then am flagged for 24 hours to all Caldari/Amarr militias and can take part in the deadspace FW.
No ranks would be given in this type of FW, and I'm not certain if FW agents should be allowed.
It is likely that I will not participate in FW much, being in that high-sec mostly carebear group and not all of my fellow corp mates want to participate. I also do not want to leave my friends and corp for FW. So it seems I'll be stuck with raising a little alt for this. :/
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.05.19 20:51:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Nyphur on 19/05/2008 20:51:55
Originally by: Nef'Ayr Example: I go to the Minnie militia HQ and talk to an agent, wanting a privateer's pass--I then am flagged for 24 hours to all Caldari/Amarr militias and can take part in the deadspace FW. No ranks would be given in this type of FW, and I'm not certain if FW agents should be allowed.
I like the idea and if the pass costed you some isk (say a few million for a week like the war fee or a million for a day), I think it'd work well. It would allow the current roleplaying guys to put together gangs without letting large alliances get in on the action cheaply. EDIT: And it'd mean that RPers like UK wouldn't lose sec status for fighting on behalf of their faction.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Ghengis Tia
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:02:00 -
[29]
The question is this: When my corp joins a militia, all members of the corp are affected by events corp players are involved in. For instance, if my Amarrian main and corp CEO decides to join the militia as a corp, the other corp members (alts) will have their faction standings affected, no?
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Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
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Posted - 2008.05.19 21:11:00 -
[30]
This has to be one of the most boneheaded design decisions I've ever seen. Joining in FW should have been kept 100% apart from the corp/alliance system. Totally seperate.
This expansion is purportedly designed to help the carebear, high sec hugging masses to try out PvP? And the first design choice they make, is to make you have to leave your long time carebear corps to participate? Who the hell thought that was a good idea?
So why not get my whole corp to join? Well frack, we're a mostly carebear corp! Not everyone is going to want to participate, and if the corp joins, those who don't want to suddenly become war targets, get limited high sec access (FU traders, explorers, ect).
So either those who want to participate have to leave the corp to do so.. or the corp can sign up, but those who don't want to participate have to leave the corp to avoid the consequences they dont want to partake in. Either way, the carebear corps get fracked up the arse.
So many of us were looking forward to getting involved, but now.. **** me if I'll jump through all these hoops just to participate in something that was supposedly aimed at players like myself who so far have generally avoided PvP in this game.
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