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Grek Forto
THE IRIS
Infinite Innovation
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Posted - 2008.05.20 11:38:00 -
[1]
In EVE, when you warp with your ship it takes about 20 seconds to warp between two stargates (in, say a frigate or cruiser)
I was wondering if those 20 seconds are there because it's vital to not get bored when warping (Instead of it taking several minutes etc)?
...And if EVE was reality, would it take even hours to warp from Point A to point B compared to the little time it takes in-game?
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.20 11:52:00 -
[2]
Well, warp speed is supposed to be between 3 AU/s (I think) and 12 AU/s (I think again :P )
Doubt it will take too long to fly through a whole system if you are moving at about 1500 times the speed of light.
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Mithfindel
Argent Group
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Posted - 2008.05.20 13:25:00 -
[3]
The current warp times can be assumed to be real-time. It really is that fast. The reasons why warping is not used in inter-system travel include the problems with travel time (it would take multiple days) as well as capacitor issues.
A quick calculation:
1 Astronomical Unit = 149 598 000 kilometers
Hence, 3 AU/s is roughly 449 Gm/s (half a billion km/s).
3 AU/1 s : 1 c = 1497 times the speed of light for most craft
12 AU/1 s : 1 c = 5988 times the speed of light for interceptors
Thus, the most craft can, in Star Trek terms go almost warp nine, faster than the Enterprise's emergency speed.[1] The warp speed of the interceptors would be warp 9.9-something (as such, around 14 on the old scale?), about the same speed as the Voyager. So, assuming a large enough capacitor (perhaps a capital ship), the warp drives are realistically fast to cross even interstellar distances, which totally dwarf the little hops between the rocks in a single solar system.
[1] http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/FAQs/warp_velocities-faq.htm
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Uilliam Nebel
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.05.20 15:13:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Mithfindel
Thus, the most craft can, in Star Trek terms go almost warp nine, faster than the Enterprise's emergency speed.[1] The warp speed of the interceptors would be warp 9.9-something (as such, around 14 on the old scale?), about the same speed as the Voyager. So, assuming a large enough capacitor (perhaps a capital ship), the warp drives are realistically fast to cross even interstellar distances, which totally dwarf the little hops between the rocks in a single solar system.
Did they ever mention why they are not used to cross greater differences? I'd imagine some good ideas for reasons would be things such as,
The ship does not have the output to maintain a 'safe' or 'stable' warp bubble over a few minutes.
Long range navigation, even with a quantum computer still could be very un-precise given certain circumstances. (Even a quantum computer can not solve certain mathematic formula to completion. Such as anything with a growing exponential toward infinity, so there is obviously a threshold somewhere.)
There is stuff out there, and some of it might break down a warp bubble. This might be a pocket of dark matter / energy within the voids between star systems (I think this is unlikely though.) Or possibly a dormant black hole, or some such thing with enough mass or energy to disrupt a warp bubble. Maybe even the much higher/longer rate of impact with dust and micro debris clouds outside of a star system could be enough.
/
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do." - Confucius, Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC.) |
Grek Forto
THE IRIS
Infinite Innovation
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Posted - 2008.05.20 19:45:00 -
[5]
But, the mass (and size) of the ship also increases the time of warp, right? But not to a big extent? 
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Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.05.20 22:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Grek Forto
But, the mass (and size) of the ship also increases the time of warp, right? But not to a big extent?
Actually, not so much.
When you enter warp, your ship's warp drive is creating a subspace bubble around your ship. In this warp field the normal laws of physics do not apply. Limitations such as the speed of light, inertia and mass become useless. The warp drive literally pulls the subspace bubble through normal space at near unlimited speeds.
The speed at which a ship moves through warp is not so much limited by the mass of the ship as it is by the warp core design and the available capacitor powergrid.
A warp field must be large enough to encapsulate the entire ship. A warp field must be perfectly maintained for an entire journey. A warp field must have limiters and a huge resource of computing power running the warp drive.
The speed at which a ship can move in warp is not so much limited by the physics of warp itself, but by the technological limitations of the creators.
A ship with a massive amount of powergrid, a top of the line warp drive, and enormous computing resources would be able to create a faster, longer lasting, warp field than another ship of its exact same size, and this has nothing to do with the normal physics of thrust.
This is why a Freighter moves at horrendously slow speeds through warp, and yet capital ships far larger than them move at the same speeds.
Even though they are just as massive, or even more massive than the freighter, they were designed as combat ships, and thus provided with weapons-grade power systems and computing hardware, which gives them much more to work with when creating the warp field. For this reason, they can match the freighter move-for-move when it comes to warp technology despite their size.
tl;dr - Mass and inertia only limit the speed of a vessel by creating larger capacitor needs for generating the warp field.
"I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor." |
Seetesh
Caldari
Pixels Docks
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Posted - 2008.05.20 23:02:00 -
[7]
It's a basic concept that i teach to my student's that the mass does increasing the closer to the speed of light so more energy is required however it works out at an almost infinate amount being required. In star trek they overcome this with a warpfield bubble of sorts which they use essentially ride the wave. Technically its not the ship thats moving but rather space is being warped.
The interstellar distance's in eve were crossed in cryo ships as mentioned in the chronicles and i can't remember which one as its quite late right now but im sure someone will recall the story.
But at those speeds you could travel the distance's to other star systems however it would take quite a while and the ships capacitor is still not large enough to carry you that far. Maybe a fair few cap rechargers and cap power relays but you would still need to break and restore your cap and restart many thousands of times if not millions.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.21 05:35:00 -
[8]
i think industrials have the longest raw warp distance in the game. i know my Badger Mark II used less cap per AU then any other ship i had/have.
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Arvald
The School 0f Fine Arts
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Posted - 2008.05.21 15:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Uilliam Nebel
Originally by: Mithfindel
Thus, the most craft can, in Star Trek terms go almost warp nine, faster than the Enterprise's emergency speed.[1] The warp speed of the interceptors would be warp 9.9-something (as such, around 14 on the old scale?), about the same speed as the Voyager. So, assuming a large enough capacitor (perhaps a capital ship), the warp drives are realistically fast to cross even interstellar distances, which totally dwarf the little hops between the rocks in a single solar system.
Did they ever mention why they are not used to cross greater differences? I'd imagine some good ideas for reasons would be things such as,
The ship does not have the output to maintain a 'safe' or 'stable' warp bubble over a few minutes.
Long range navigation, even with a quantum computer still could be very un-precise given certain circumstances. (Even a quantum computer can not solve certain mathematic formula to completion. Such as anything with a growing exponential toward infinity, so there is obviously a threshold somewhere.)
There is stuff out there, and some of it might break down a warp bubble. This might be a pocket of dark matter / energy within the voids between star systems (I think this is unlikely though.) Or possibly a dormant black hole, or some such thing with enough mass or energy to disrupt a warp bubble. Maybe even the much higher/longer rate of impact with dust and micro debris clouds outside of a star system could be enough.
actually warp drives are used for inter system travel when a construction crew is heading to set up a stargate in a newly discovered system, but why normal pilots don't do it well, would you rather take a week or more to get from point a to point b, or just a few seconds 
Originally by: Liang Nuren
There are no dangerous ships, there are dangerous people. IIRC, you are one of them.
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Bael Thazor
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Posted - 2008.05.24 03:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grek Forto
In EVE, when you warp with your ship it takes about 20 seconds to warp between two stargates (in, say a frigate or cruiser)
I was wondering if those 20 seconds are there because it's vital to not get bored when warping (Instead of it taking several minutes etc)?
...And if EVE was reality, would it take even hours to warp from Point A to point B compared to the little time it takes in-game?
In lieu of the mechanic of warp travel, it is perfectly reasonable that travel around a given solar system is a matter of minutes and not hours. At the kind of astronomical speed we're talking about, zipping around a solarsystem at a few AU per second is reasonable. Perhaps some math will allow me to illustrate.
1 AU/s = 149,598,000,000 meter/s
That's almost 150 billion meters every second, or 150 million kilometers.
However, to the people asking whether warp travel through CONSTELLATIONS is possible, i.e. from Solar System A to Solar System B, the distances involve dwarf the capacity of warp travel.
Taking the example of the long lost "Sol" Solar System and that of Alpha Centauri, their nearest neighbour, we can get a sense of how long it would take.
Given that 1 light year (LY) = 63,239.6717 AU, and the distance between Sol and Alpha Centauri is equal to 4.3 LY:
4.3 LY = 271,930.588 AU
At 3 AU/s:
271,930/3 = 90,643 seconds = 1510 minutes = ~25 hours
At the more respectable speed of 12 AU/s:
271,930/12 = 22,660 seconds = 377 minutes = ~6 hours
So for very close solar systems, you can expect to have to travel for at least a day before you go from A to B flying anything other than an inty. Naturally as the distance between solar systems increases, the travel time increases, and you can practically forget about warping between regions.
It's pretty clear why Jump Gate technology is so critical for the modern economy; consumers in EVE expect swift, fast supply to meet their demands, and without Jump Gates the universal economy would stagnate as pilots choose to settle in a single solar system for the majority of their time. Additionally, the strategic advantage of Jump Gates is critical; a fleet of warships can theoretically traverse entire regions in less than an hour, allowing for incredibly rapid response times to military threats.
OOC:
If EVE were reality, and warp drive technology were accessible as it is in-game, the time to travel between gates and stations would remain consistent. 3 AU/s is bloody fast, just not fast enough to allow 'interstellar' travel at any degree of practicality. Then again, without jump gates, warp drives between systems could be seen as a return to the good ol' days of caravans that would travel across countries for weeks on end to peddle their wares.
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.24 17:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 24/05/2008 17:15:29
Could you actually see a ship in warp?
I've seen those good looking fleet warps in EvE< where a large number of ships warp at the same time and end up warping right next to each other.
Since in warp, you're traveling faster than light, could you actually see other ships?
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Wloire
Macabre Votum
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.24 20:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Wloire on 24/05/2008 20:27:29
Originally by: Hanneshannes
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 24/05/2008 17:15:29
Could you actually see a ship in warp?
I've seen those good looking fleet warps in EvE< where a large number of ships warp at the same time and end up warping right next to each other.
Since in warp, you're traveling faster than light, could you actually see other ships?
I understand the point being made here and in reality I'd have to say you probably wouldn't be able to see the rest of your fleet in a similar situation. In EVE's defense; when a car drives past you at 120 km/h it looks relatively like a blur, But when you are traveling at the exact same speed as that car it would seem as the car itself isn't moving, only the environment around you. This could be why you may see you're fleet in faster than light travel, because you're all traveling at a relatively equal speed.
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