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Neth'Rae
Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:46:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds While I heartily endorse the rest of your ridicule, this
Originally by: James Lyrus Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys'
comparing Minmatar to monkeys could be interpreted as racist, since they are predominantly black skinned characters.
This, in turn, may cause real offense if some players do not consider racist attacks to be acceptable even when IC in nature.
Just sayin.
I don't think an Amarrian would care, really.. They are racists anyways so :P
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 01:51:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 24/05/2008 01:53:56
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds While I heartily endorse the rest of your ridicule, this
Originally by: James Lyrus Minmatar should be referred to as 'flying monkeys'
comparing Minmatar to monkeys could be interpreted as racist, since they are predominantly black skinned characters.
This, in turn, may cause real offense if some players do not consider racist attacks to be acceptable even when IC in nature.
Just sayin.
I don't think an Amarrian would care, really.. They are racists anyways so :P
Yeah I don't think my point was clear enough in hindsight.
The problem is that "monkeys" as a racist insult is likely to be a little too close to real life for some players to receive it lightly.
Of course you have to question the wisdom of CCP creating the enslaved race of peoples in Eve the black people. That's the root of the problem. It could just as well have been the Minmatar that enslaved the Amarr, but it has always been popular to depict black people in positions of subservience, why challenge a stereotype?
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Moolti
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:09:00 -
[33]
/me sighs... all this hate.
We're beautiful, we get to have sex, our food is delicious, or cities thriving, and our ideals are worth defending.
no wonder the robes (amar) and robots (caldari) despise us, they're all jealous.
@)}---^----- The Jove are a warning to us all. We must remember to live and Love and feel. Fall in Love, make Love, be beautful and see the beautiful. For we mustn't loose our human spark |
Akiba Penrose
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
The problem is that "monkeys" as a racist insult is likely to be a little too close to real life for some players to receive it lightly.
Are you saying that monkeys are playing EVE and will be offended if we use the term "monkey" about a Minmatar?
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:22:00 -
[35]
Keep calling us monkeys......
I like the dark skinned monkeys.
And I mean really, how funny is it that the two slowest races are on the same side. Nano 4tw. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
The problem is that "monkeys" as a racist insult is likely to be a little too close to real life for some players to receive it lightly.
Are you saying that monkeys are playing EVE and will be offended if we use the term "monkey" about a Minmatar?
I think you know very well what I said and I hope you understand it.
I sympathise with the desire to make light of an issue that invades even our sacred fun areas, bringing to mind the misery of real life bigotry and hatred. But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:37:00 -
[37]
Biotch, do I LOOK black to you?
Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term.
If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull****. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Akiba Penrose
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:46:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters.
The term "monkey" is not used to describe minmatar because some of them are black.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Biotch, do I LOOK black to you?
Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term.
If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull****.
Are you aware that black people have been subject to these kind of racist abuses for 500 years in real life?
Is it too much to ask that you put aside your own ignorance and immaturity to consider for a moment that the term "monkey" might actually ruin someone's enjoyment of Eve?
What does it cost you to be civil and consider the feelings of others?
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:52:00 -
[40]
Hey Akiba, why did the drake cross the road?
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:53:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Megan Maynard Biotch, do I LOOK black to you?
Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term.
If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull****.
Are you aware that black people have been subject to these kind of racist abuses for 500 years in real life?
Is it too much to ask that you put aside your own ignorance and immaturity to consider for a moment that the term "monkey" might actually ruin someone's enjoyment of Eve?
What does it cost you to be civil and consider the feelings of others?
hahahahah;ahahahah
Get a life. Seriously.
As a minmatar pilot the term "monkey" made me laugh, and I'll be more then happy to blow you up just for making a fool of yourself.
Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Megan Maynard
Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Megan Maynard Hey Akiba, why did the drake cross the road?
The pilot got bored and never did, it would have taken 3 hours with an afterburner. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters.
The term "monkey" is not used to describe minmatar because some of them are black.
That's irrelevant for the reasons I have already explained.
It was not my intention to hi-jack this fun thread with a serious issue, but it seems some people cannot simply accept that it may be possible for a term to be inappropriate due to racist connotations and would prefer to argue as if some precious liberty was under threat.
I have said my piece and will move on if you allow me. The decision of what you deem appropriate or not is ultimately your own.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 02:57:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 24/05/2008 03:03:50
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Megan Maynard Biotch, do I LOOK black to you?
Next thing "grease monkey" will be a racist term.
If you think it's racist, maybe it is maybe it isn't. Who gives a crap? It's just a word, cut the PC bull****.
Are you aware that black people have been subject to these kind of racist abuses for 500 years in real life?
Is it too much to ask that you put aside your own ignorance and immaturity to consider for a moment that the term "monkey" might actually ruin someone's enjoyment of Eve?
What does it cost you to be civil and consider the feelings of others?
hahahahah;ahahahah
Get a life. Seriously.
As a minmatar pilot the term "monkey" made me laugh, and I'll be more then happy to blow you up just for making a fool of yourself.
Frankly, you're the fool. It would cost you nothing to be respectful over this issue but you are clearly too immature to see how it might be valid.
As for the smack, bring it big jugs. I never fight fair though, or clean. One on one's are for suckers.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Neth'Rae
Neth's Workshop
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Posted - 2008.05.24 03:03:00 -
[45]
Do monkeys even exist in New Eden btw?
Request signatures at EVE-GFX |
Akiba Penrose
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.24 03:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
It was not my intention to hi-jack this fun thread with a serious issue, but it seems some people cannot simply accept that it may be possible for a term to be inappropriate due to racist connotations and would prefer to argue as if some precious liberty was under threat.
I understand what you are saying, and i disagree. And i will not stop refering to minmatar as monkeys, or any other racial slang in eve, because you think the term might be inappropriate.
What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also?
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 03:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also?
No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct.
It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
b1zz
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also?
No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct.
It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country.
Tommy, this game is open to every human on the planet so it is likely that any word used will cause deep offense to someone. Peanut, monkey, pretty boy, faceless, snail-eater, baldy, dog, bongo-boy - all banned! Basically what you are saying is no smack-talk allowed. And from there it's a short step to 'do not talk', or 'humour is bad'.
Well, at least this thread was funny for the first few posts. That's something at least.
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Akiba Penrose
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.24 04:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also?
No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct.
It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country.
To refer to minmatar as monkeys would be rasism with regards to minmatar, and maybe monkeys, and have nothing to do with black people. You are making that connection, and that is racist. "little regard for the offense i might cause someone"? I think you are the one causing offense here.
Tbh I think you are the racist.
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Xathytoz
Roswell Project Victimz
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:14:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Xathytoz on 24/05/2008 09:25:20 Edited by: Xathytoz on 24/05/2008 09:19:15 Well, first of all, a word on the monkey-minmatar debate. First of all I never have seen a "black" (or Black African-orignated) Minmatar. Some have very pale to white Skin, some more tend to match skin colours with in the Middle East or South-East Asia. Sure, a darker colour and some dreadlocks... wooz. And that's already comparable to African people in RL? Sorry, but making that comparisment is the first mistake. Just check the cultural background, you'll see that Matari have been given a very Germanic/Scandinavian cultural background. I mean, where do you think the name "Hel" is coming from? You may as well consider Matari as West-Goths still holding on to their Germanic traditions. So, at least in my opinion and understanding of historical background & culture, the Matari remind me much more of the Germanic hordes the Roman Empire (Amarr Empire, lot of connections there) wanted but could not completely enslave/integrate into the Empire. So please guys, FIRST read the background/history of the races, then, if you really have to, compare to rl people (which is also a mistake when you wanna avoid out of game offenses).
And finally, what's so bad about being called a monkey in general? I think, they only people who'd really should feel ****ed about being called "monkey" would be the Amarians, cuz in (abrhamaic) religions mankind didn't evolve but as created. (And it's no secret the Amarrian culture is inspired by the Roman Empire under Christian influene, so from around 400. A.D. on. (ALL!) Humans are monkeys that've lost their tail, so if you feel offended by that, go get some education. :)
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Kis Kecheri
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:40:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 09:45:00 Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to.
Hitting sensitive PC mouthbreathers with collateral damage is just icing on the cake.
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Marine HK4861
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.24 09:51:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kis Kecheri
Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to.
Hitting sensitive PCtards is just icing on the cake.
Unlike real life, where you're permitted to offend people provided you don't break any laws, offending people in EVE with racist terms is against the EULA and may result in a suspension or a ban.
As for the whole 'monkey' debate, let's put it a different way - how would people react if the C-word racist term was used for all the oriental bloodlines?
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Bellum Eternus
Death of Virtue Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.05.24 10:20:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Marine HK4861
Originally by: Kis Kecheri
Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to.
Hitting sensitive PCtards is just icing on the cake.
Unlike real life, where you're permitted to offend people provided you don't break any laws, offending people in EVE with racist terms is against the EULA and may result in a suspension or a ban.
As for the whole 'monkey' debate, let's put it a different way - how would people react if the C-word racist term was used for all the oriental bloodlines?
Yeah, I think I'd be really insulted if I were Japanese and someone referred to me as Chinese. <smirk> I don't think I could handle being called the C-word. Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [gold]Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail mods@cc |
Marine HK4861
Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2008.05.24 10:43:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Yeah, I think I'd be really insulted if I were Japanese and someone referred to me as Chinese. <smirk> I don't think I could handle being called the C-word.
I can just imagine what'd happen if you started referring to Chinese people as Japanese in this situation..
There's plenty of racist terms used to refer to orientals, the C-word is just the one I hear thrown at me most often.
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Dr Slaughter
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:20:00 -
[55]
Everyone knows we keep our ships held together with tape and wrenches.... monkey wrenches..
It's not like we've evolved from Gordo on his ill fated trip into space aboard, what, a Jupiter AM-13 booster rocket and even if we were it would simply show that evolved squirrel monkeys could kick your ass.
Your going to have to better than that to insult us IMHO.
Rabies is unexpected ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ dealing with the UNDERPANTS of eve since 2004 |
Promethian child
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.24 11:48:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Promethian child on 24/05/2008 11:50:34
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Akiba Penrose What about calling real monkeys for "monkeys", is that racism also?
No. Monkeys are not people, they are monkeys. So referring to them as monkeys is correct.
It is your right to do as you wish. I am disappointed that you have so little regard for the offense you might cause someone, but I expect that is the fault of the education system in your country.
I think whitey should mind his own affairs (edit this was said by my very black coworker reading the post im rather pale )
hmm flying spacemonkeys how cool would that be
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Kransthow
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.05.24 12:24:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Kransthow on 24/05/2008 12:24:26
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Akiba Penrose
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds But I respectfully hope that people would recognise the danger and avoid using a term like "monkeys" to describe black characters.
The term "monkey" is not used to describe minmatar because some of them are black.
That's irrelevant for the reasons I have already explained.
It was not my intention to hi-jack this fun thread with a serious issue, but it seems some people cannot simply accept that it may be possible for a term to be inappropriate due to racist connotations and would prefer to argue as if some precious liberty was under threat.
I have said my piece and will move on if you allow me. The decision of what you deem appropriate or not is ultimately your own.
sup *****
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.05.24 13:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kis Kecheri Edited by: Kis Kecheri on 24/05/2008 09:45:00 Offending people in 'real life' is something I look forward to.
Hitting sensitive PC mouthbreathers with collateral damage is just icing on the cake.
Originally by: Promethian child I think whitey should mind his own affairs (edit this was said by my very black coworker reading the post im rather pale )
Originally by: Kransthow sup *****
You would all have to work a damn sight harder to offend me; I am not the least bit phased by your unimaginative jibes and juvenile responses.
It is merely indicative of your utterly self-centered, over-privileged backgrounds that you are unable to engage with a discussion about racist terminology without resorting to insults.
Your lack of empathy and respect for others is tragic. This generation considers it iconoclastic to reassert racist terms that our grandparents' generation protested long and hard to defeat. That is very sad indeed.
Insult away. You only earn my pity.
Bandures > tommy you like a cowboy harry ) |
Xathytoz
Roswell Project Victimz
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Posted - 2008.05.24 14:03:00 -
[59]
Okay, Tommy, EASY! The problem here is taht YOU are already taking it out of game, noone else. Second, may I post a quote of th roleplay news, written bc CCP themselves, where an Amarr deligate descripses the Matari as animals. So stick to the RolePlay, dude. Creating such links is making IC-smack OC-smack. I do not doubt your noble intention, but you're currently creating the problem yourself you want to warn about.
Anywas, here the quote and link where it is to be found:
Exercise 'Brotherhood' Begins newsitem
[...]A source from the Ministry of War commented "This is exactly how I would expect these animals to behave. They have no understanding for common decency or respect for the families still in the process of grieving. It speaks volumes about the mental abilities of a Matari that they would think it is acceptable to associate themselves so closely with the Federation Navy at this time."[...]
So, there is racism in game between Amarr towards Matari people, yes. This is in fact an element of the characteristica of that race and its culture. And I know you may not like that, since its a bit like Europeans (and American "caucasions" had to look in the mirror. So stick INGAME and don't even try to link what cannot be linked. Smacktalk aiming for the person and not the char is pityful anyway, the bigger man ignores such idiots.
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.05.24 14:13:00 -
[60]
If people see calling minmatar monkeys as racism, it doesnt matter at all because they will see racism everywhere.
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