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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 03:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/05/2008 03:29:40 Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/05/2008 03:17:41 From what I understand a new level 3 mission in FW will take 15 jumps to get to, and then once your in at the target you are automatically tagged on the overview so anyone can warp to you.
For 15 jumps, and for basically giving up the protection a deadspace gives you you should get much greater rewards than 60,000 isk.
You should get MORE than a normal level 3 mission... or maybe the job shouldn't pay well... hell maybe isk should be completely taken out of the reward for FW missions, make it pure LP.
Not only that but then remove all isk form the LP store for the militia
If you think about CCP, this system you have right now is basically, go out, do 300 missions. thus inject 9 million isk into the game and gain 100,000 lp. Now go to the LP store and spend 100,000 LP and 9 million isk... wait that's pointless if the isk is needed in LP store as an isk sink for the isk gained along with LP... why even have isk?
You could still make isk with the LP, you could trade it in to buy ships and such and then sell those rewards.
One nice side effect of pure VERY high LP only missions would be giving players involved a steady supply of ships.
Hell don't stop there make these ships that the LP store gives out insurable for not isk but LP.
Meaning you take out your LP bought faction frigate into combat, lose it, and gain LP back instead of isk.
I don't know maybe I'm just really tired but I think it might be an idea with some potential.
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isoPhotek
Minmatar Bushido Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.21 03:21:00 -
[2]
Quote: you are automatically tagged on the overview so anyone can warp to you
If this is true....epic fail.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 03:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/05/2008 03:30:35
Originally by: isoPhotek
Quote: you are automatically tagged on the overview so anyone can warp to you
If this is true....epic fail.
Well I have to disagree, I think it's a great idea, and really fun. It's not a normal mission can you can still do normal missions with non-FW agents.
But it is epic fail if all you get is 60k for the risk.
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isoPhotek
Minmatar Bushido Corporation
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Posted - 2008.05.21 03:33:00 -
[4]
Quote: But it is epic fail if all you get is 60k for the risk.
I meant it that way too. sorry for being cryptic.
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DiaBlo UK
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.21 09:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MotherMoon Hell don't stop there make these ships that the LP store gives out insurable for not isk but LP.
Meaning you take out your LP bought faction frigate into combat, lose it, and gain LP back instead of isk.
isn't that just placing isk with LP. meaning a change in words, or just introducing a non-convertable currency?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DiaBlo UK
Originally by: MotherMoon Hell don't stop there make these ships that the LP store gives out insurable for not isk but LP.
Meaning you take out your LP bought faction frigate into combat, lose it, and gain LP back instead of isk.
isn't that just placing isk with LP. meaning a change in words, or just introducing a non-convertable currency?
Basicly but think about it.
it ceases to become an isk sink
it makes being part of a militia special
it removes a chunk of isk by removing insurance pay outs.
and it's not doing anything different than what LP does now, like you said, it just makes the store all LP instead of LP and isk
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Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 21/05/2008 11:22:27 Why would any faction would give you LP if you lose a Faction Ship? Insurance is fine, LP insurance is bad imo.
I agree on LP payments though. It makes sense, factions are at war, they can't give money to everyone. It will also make more people to use LP store.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver Edited by: Siona Windweaver on 21/05/2008 11:22:27 Why would any faction would give you LP if you lose a Faction Ship? Insurance is fine, LP insurance is bad imo.
I agree on LP payments though. It makes sense, factions are at war, they can't give money to everyone. It will also make more people to use LP store.
well ideas are made to be changed, isk pay out on insurance is fine then :P
but I'm glad you see the potential of pure LP rewards.
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.21 11:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DiaBlo UK
Originally by: MotherMoon Hell don't stop there make these ships that the LP store gives out insurable for not isk but LP.
Meaning you take out your LP bought faction frigate into combat, lose it, and gain LP back instead of isk.
isn't that just placing isk with LP. meaning a change in words, or just introducing a non-convertable currency?
The idea is not bad. LP you can spend only in the militia store (so only if you keep working for them and keep a good standing) and they don't inject isk in the economy, so keeping inflationary pressure under control.
In a RP sense it is a logical mechanic to keep the capsuleer under control.
It will create some deficiency in isk for the militia players but if the drops and the LP store items are good enough they could keep the wallet active selling them. As the isk they will get in market will come from other players it would help keeping the inflationary pressures under control.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2008.05.21 12:00:00 -
[10]
Just to reiterate the point that we make every single time new missions are added: the payouts are based on average completion time and it takes a while for the system to populate with useful data. Until then the payouts are going to be much lower than you'd expect
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.21 14:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to reiterate the point that we make every single time new missions are added: the payouts are based on average completion time and it takes a while for the system to populate with useful data. Until then the payouts are going to be much lower than you'd expect
Greyscale, have you (CCP) considered the time sink of sending people 12 jumps back and fort for a single mission while designing them? While I see why it will be part of the FW concept, it mean a minimum of 15 minutes of navigation to get there and another 15 to return back. The possibility of a fight with some gatecamp is not so enticing to make that interesting. Maybe agents near the combat area or the possibility of getting missions from range in any militia station would help there.
Similarly the long transit distances must be weighted in the rewards.
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Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
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Posted - 2008.05.21 16:40:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Thebro Nobrunder on 21/05/2008 16:40:16
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Similarly the long transit distances must be weighted in the rewards.
The rewards are based on the average /TIME/ it takes to complete them. ie: the /TIME/ it takes you to travel there and back is counted.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 18:24:00 -
[13]
don't you think you should take the fact that it dorps a beacon in space as part of the payout?
currently it seems your using a simple time system... I suggestion a system that used time, and number of enemy ships that activate the acceleration gate into the mix.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.05.21 19:13:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 21/05/2008 19:13:45
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to reiterate the point that we make every single time new missions are added: the payouts are based on average completion time and it takes a while for the system to populate with useful data. Until then the payouts are going to be much lower than you'd expect
Unless I miss my guess, lv5 missions were tried, considered as not worthy of the risk involved, and deserted before that sytem had time to increase the rewards to a worthy level.
Don't you fear that to happen again with factional warfare? Maybe you should manually set the rewards to a level you consider worthy, then let it regulate itself from there? ------------------------------------------
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Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.21 21:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to reiterate the point that we make every single time new missions are added: the payouts are based on average completion time and it takes a while for the system to populate with useful data. Until then the payouts are going to be much lower than you'd expect
Payout and lp are fine so far but I had to go 18 jumps one way for a mission and the bonus was only 40 minutes. Is this intentional both for the 18 jumps and uncollectably short bonus time?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.21 21:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder Edited by: Thebro Nobrunder on 21/05/2008 16:40:16
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Similarly the long transit distances must be weighted in the rewards.
The rewards are based on the average /TIME/ it takes to complete them. ie: the /TIME/ it takes you to travel there and back is counted.
Not the same thing. Missions have a cap in rewards and FW mission probably will reach it regardless of the traveling time as the failure rate will be high. So if must be factored in the cap value.
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Gus Morgan
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.05.21 22:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gus Morgan on 21/05/2008 22:03:59 they should also remove any penalty if you fail to complete the mission since the failure rate will be much higher than normal missions.
have you also concidered raising the rewards for completing a mission for a faction with lower membercount? This is to stimulate equality between the diffrent factions.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.05.21 22:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Marlenus on 21/05/2008 22:13:14 The first mission I got offered was a 16-jump affair, for a level one mission offering 25LP.
I understand that the rewards will go up once the system is populated with completion-time data. But I'm having a hard time imagining them ever going up so high as to make a 32-jump round trip FUN.
There seems to be a fun-factor problem with the FW mission designs. Travel is boring ... yes it may get punctuated by combat excitements, but the rest of the time, it's still boring.
Just my two ISK.
Edit: I declined the mission. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 22:43:00 -
[19]
I don't think any systems within contested space are 16 jumps away form each other... try taking missions IN contested zones?
I can't wait to test this mosr in depth but my computer is going to to the shop soon it seems :( |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.05.21 22:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: MotherMoon I don't think any systems within contested space are 16 jumps away form each other... try taking missions IN contested zones?
If that's relevant, shouldn't there be some indication in the interface? Because right now, there's no mention of "contested zones" or any hint of how a young militia pilot might hope to find one -- no even, when he's talking to a mission agent, that he might want or need to. |
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Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.21 22:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: MotherMoon I don't think any systems within contested space are 16 jumps away form each other... try taking missions IN contested zones?
If that's relevant, shouldn't there be some indication in the interface? Because right now, there's no mention of "contested zones" or any hint of how a young militia pilot might hope to find one -- no even, when he's talking to a mission agent, that he might want or need to.
Yeah. Hope all this gets sorted by release or the masses of newish empire players are going to take a mission and go wtf!? then promtly make 12 whine threads per hour in the GD. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 22:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: MotherMoon I don't think any systems within contested space are 16 jumps away form each other... try taking missions IN contested zones?
If that's relevant, shouldn't there be some indication in the interface? Because right now, there's no mention of "contested zones" or any hint of how a young militia pilot might hope to find one -- no even, when he's talking to a mission agent, that he might want or need to.
f10 star map tab occupancy set to militia of choice or all
BAM you can see where every system the mission could possibly be in. |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:08:00 -
[23]
Mothermoon, I think you're missing my point.
First, I'm not sure there's any connection between the mission destinations and systems where there are fights going on. There might be, but there's nothing in-game to suggest there is, and (frankly) I doubt it, until new evidence emerges.
Much more to the point, there's no hint in the militia mission interface that the missions have anything to do with the places where active FW operations are going on, or that people wanting to run FW missions ought to go to an agent nearer the action. So, you pointing out how that can be done doesn't really help, does it? When (a) we don't know if it's worth doing and (b) nobody will know they ought to do it. |
Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:09:00 -
[24]
The mission I accepted was 2 jumps from contested space and it still sent me 18 jumps. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Marlenus Mothermoon, I think you're missing my point.
First, I'm not sure there's any connection between the mission destinations and systems where there are fights going on. There might be, but there's nothing in-game to suggest there is, and (frankly) I doubt it, until new evidence emerges.
Much more to the point, there's no hint in the militia mission interface that the missions have anything to do with the places where active FW operations are going on, or that people wanting to run FW missions ought to go to an agent nearer the action. So, you pointing out how that can be done doesn't really help, does it? When (a) we don't know if it's worth doing and (b) nobody will know they ought to do it.
what are you talking about? Have listened to the live dev blog? the Idea is that they are easier mission but they are within contested space. that's why when you go to your mission space it drops a beacon just like scanning down a site, so that the other milita can run in and try to kill you. |
Hoshi
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zeba
Payout and lp are fine so far but I had to go 18 jumps one way for a mission and the bonus was only 40 minutes. Is this intentional both for the 18 jumps and uncollectably short bonus time?
Bonus time is also based on avg completion time. |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:30:00 -
[27]
You heard something different in the live blog than I did, I guess. I heard it, and I remember that the enemy could come bust up your missions because of the beacon system, but I didn't hear anything that would explain needing to go sixteen jumps. |
Zeba
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.21 23:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Zeba
Payout and lp are fine so far but I had to go 18 jumps one way for a mission and the bonus was only 40 minutes. Is this intentional both for the 18 jumps and uncollectably short bonus time?
Bonus time is also based on avg completion time.
Yes. I understand mission mechanics but you have to start with a base value that is at least mildly desirable and completable. As it stands if this goes live then all those newb empire players jumping on FW are going to take a mission that will get them killed nearly every single time on tranq with that many jumps in a row in low sec.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.05.22 00:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zeba Yes. I understand mission mechanics but you have to start with a base value that is at least mildly desirable and completable.
That's just it. Thirty-two jumps is a lot of pain, I'm having a hard time imagining the rewards that would make that a desirable mission. It would have to be enough LP to buy a navy missile launcher or something, and I don't see that ever happening. I've done trips that long on escalating explorations, for a chance at faction loot, and it's worth it when you get the loot, but I've just blown off a lot of escalations also, as just not having enough fun-factor to balance the death-march traveling. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.22 00:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Marlenus You heard something different in the live blog than I did, I guess. I heard it, and I remember that the enemy could come bust up your missions because of the beacon system, but I didn't hear anything that would explain needing to go sixteen jumps.
that's what I mean I'm saying what they said the system would be.
it shouldn't be 16 jumps unless you take a mission far away form contested space.
thus something is wrong. I'm agreeing with you it's messed up and needs to be shorter, but at the same time I believe they said all missions would take place behind enemy lines.
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