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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Aethlyn
98
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:39:00 -
[331] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Maybe something more along the lines of what CCP is trying to do: Make one of the bonuses on a battlecruiser be based upon the racial Cruiser skill, make the other based on the Battlecruiser skill.
Splitting up BC into racial components is the worst idea. Sorry. Actually a nice idea. Always saw destroyers and battlecruisers more like an optional "1.5 upgrade". So instead of grabbing the next bigger class of ships you specialize here (even if it's juts on your current tech tier). But having them split up and put into the chain sounds interesting, too. I can actually understand both approaches here and I'm not really sure which one is the one I'd prefer.
In a similar way I always considered the T2 ships requiring other T2 ships as a prereq more like "T2.5". It added quite some complexity, that's right, but at the same time it isn't that bad. But yeah, it sometimes doesn't feel right, if you have to train some ship class that's not directly related with the one you'd like to fly (had that with Command Ships as well as my Orca). Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:40:00 -
[332] - Quote
Has anyone got confirmation of whether they will be properly balancing headlights across the racial offerings? The current imbalance is disgraceful. |
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
44
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:40:00 -
[333] - Quote
I, for one, look forward to Exequrors being useful. "Fools! I'll show them all!"
What do you mean that one's already taken? |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
587
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:40:00 -
[334] - Quote
Awesome - an actual plan to follow when rebalancing ships.
And old ships get new life, very cool.
I like the BS4 for capitals change - it follows the theme, and might make for more overconfident newbs in carriers ratting in lowsec :)
Keep up the great work CCP!
Also, for the stupid people, one more requote:
CCP Soundwave wrote: No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.
This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:41:00 -
[335] - Quote
Removal of tiers! \o/ |
Exitar Stormscion
Black Aphelion Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:41:00 -
[336] - Quote
Best thing since removal of learning skills !
THERE IS HOPE !
I just hope CCP learns that in the future they NEED to write in caps and explain clearly in blogs that people wont lose anything and that every change will be done in there benefit so they avoid **** storm on the forums of people that do not read deep enough or understand the concept fully :)
Also SoundWave ! Can we have that ship trees in game ?
Could be very beneficial added under skills in character sheet. Maybe tied with certiciates. Open it select race tab / faction tab click on ship see certificates check on market check skill train time etc :)
Visual representation FTW for new players and old ones alike. |
The Snowman
Aliastra Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:41:00 -
[337] - Quote
It seems everyone is more worried about what compensation they'll get! rather than worried if the damn ships are balanced or not. lol
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1092
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:42:00 -
[338] - Quote
Kippis wrote:Interesting...
So how will it be called, this new game you are talking about?
But seriously: WTF? The Destroyer and Battlecruiser concepts are awesome BECAUSE they allow you to fly all races' ships with one skill. Also do you seriously want to shorten Capital skill training time by 30 days? Having to train BS to level V is one of the things that makes Capitals special, which they should be IMO.
I can find nothing wrong with the current skill system. Rebalance the ships, yes, and make some Tiers worth flying again, but please do not change the skills. They're awesome as is.
P.S.: Gallente dampening ends with the Exequror? I LOL'd
I believe his point was intended to be that it ends at the cruiser level... which means they would consider BC and BS dampner bonused ships.
Still complaining? When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Plyn
Random Jedi Industries KRYSIS.
45
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:42:00 -
[339] - Quote
On one hand:
THANK YOU GOD, please kill the tier system and fix all of the obsolete ships! This would make the game so much more diverse and super happytize me!
On the other hand:
Many people will be very disappointed to find that they have to train for several months to fly all of their BCs that they were fantastic in a couple of weeks ago. It makes total sense, but you can expect a lot of rage from it.
One idea to make this suck slightly less:
Introduce the racial BC and dessy skills at least a month before you make the change final. This will give people a chance to train up one race's BC 5 and dump the refunded SP into another race's BC 5.... At least this way there is less of a "rug pulled out from under my feet" feeling when you suddenly can't fly all those command ships you had tucked away. Come2Nullsec |
Ntrails
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:42:00 -
[340] - Quote
The Snowman wrote:It seems everyone is more worried about what compensation they'll get! rather than worried if the damn ships are balanced or not. lol
it's ccp, they will not be balanced. At all. |
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Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:43:00 -
[341] - Quote
Skipped over the last few pages as it just seemed to be people raging about having to spend the next 4 months retraining things having not read the devblog properly!
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. As it stands I've got Cruiser5 in all but caldari (which is at 4) - so I can currently fly all battlecruisers. I can fly all field command ships except for the Nighthawk. Currently if I want the Nighthawk I'd just need to train cruiser 5. Providing after the changes, once again the only thing I need is Caldari Cruiser 5 I'm happy. I don't care what the skills are called providing I can fly everything I can now at the same level - judging from the blog this is what will happen - so I'm happy.
Good job CCP, the change to make things like BC required for BS and so on is a good one. Will stop people jumping up into bigger ships so quick on the whole - although I can't decide whether that's a good or bad thing for Capitals.
Regarding removing tiers to make certain ships more useful - awesome! |
Rixiu
PonyTek
107
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:43:00 -
[342] - Quote
Great ideas. Even if retraining is less than desirable the end result makes it worth it.
Removal of tiers! |
DaDutchDude
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
20
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:43:00 -
[343] - Quote
HOLY *censored* BATMAN! Quick, to the Wall of Text response mobile
Skill progression changes I think there are two mayor sides to this - For those new to the game / training new characters: excellent news! I think this makes a lot more sense - For those who have many characters / very deeply trained characters: oh noes, this is going to be FUBAR
Since the majority of the current customers are veterans, it's good to take their worries seriously. For example, I just finished training basically all (combat) subcaps on my main to V, and just respecced Int / Mem to finish training those skills to V. The prospect of possibly having to go back to training Perc / Will skills and figuring out how to best use refunded skill points to get back most of my skills in one go makes my head hurt a bit. Without specifics, it is hard to tell how bad the head ache will be though
That being said, I think in general, the reason for change is clear and good, so as long as player concerns for these changes are addressed, I'm quite happy with them
Ship lines This idea is really exciting. I'd consider renaming some of your choices though, because the meaning of the names is not very self-evident, at least not to me. As an idea, consider to the following Combat - Brawler: close range combat, good DPS + tank, low agility / rang - Skirmisher: mobility based combat, good DPS + agility, medium range / tan - Sniper: long range combat, good DPS + range, low agility / tan - (idea) Tank: Ship class with a local repair specialization, medium DPS and range, low agility. great self repair. These would be the race ship for solo PVE or PVP Support (I would split these up from the start, because you probably want to have attribute range control a bit better per ship type then just as a group, and also because the group lends itself to extension for new classes - EWAR: EWAR bonus, low DPS, medium range / tank / agilit - Logistics: Logistics bonus, low DPS, medium range / tank / agilit - (idea) Exploration ship class: I would love to see exploration become a lot more prevalent, and adding specific exploration ships would be awesome.
You can flesh out the specifics a bit more by also setting targets for attributes such as lock speed, ECM strength, etc. On top of that, you can make the races a bit more defined by setting different targets for these attributes per race. I can totally see this giving new ways to specialize, new strategies, etc. I'm bubbling with ideas.
The thing where it gets tricky is when you talk about specific skills to specialize. I would really like to see some examples of what you are thinking about. how does that relate for example to current support skills, such as the existing ewar / gunnery / missile / shield tank / armor tank skills? Also, how powerful will they be? If they become a "must have" for some ship classes, you really will have to address that as part of the skill progression changes as well, since it means it might be much better to have less races but more specialization skills instead of cross training. Also, this could easily become either very overpowered or useless
A second major concern is how this relates to T2, and the T1 vs T2 balance. Currently, T2 usually means more specialization then T1. However, if T1 ships get more specialized, they risk making T2 ships almost redundant. That is already the case with some T2 ships, most specifically the HACs and Field Command Ships. T1 DPS ships, especially battlecruisers, already do the job so well and are so much less expensive that the T2 version is a lot less useful to most. This is much more the case when it comes to larger fleet fights, which unfortunately dominate a lot of the PVP. So I would like to see more specific ideas on that as well
A third concern will be the way you implement these changes. I personally think you should start with all frigates and work youe way up size wise from there, instead of doing it by race or as a big bang. I think knowing the capabilities of the smallest entity will help scale the next level properly, and the next level from there on. Personally I'd love to see the gap in tracking / sig / speed to become a bit larger to make classes more distinct and have one class need other classes or the proper support at all times.
Also when you make these changes, initial imbalance will be unavoidable. Because of that, I would suggest setting a lot of time apart in next releases for rebalancing, and also some possibilities for players to get skill points refunded in case changes are radical. Building trust with the community that this isn't a one time deal and their concerns will be taken into account will be very important when making such sweeping changes across something that players have invested years of skill points into
Anyway, those are my thoughts for the moment. All in all, it looks promising but quite tricky to get it right as well, especialy in one go, and therefor slightly panic inducing as well. I hope you pull it off and it becomes a major success. They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I always have the best intentions for others ... |
Mukutep
Appetite 4 Destruction
11
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:44:00 -
[344] - Quote
Just want to make sure I understand what the reason for having Racial Battleship at V would be if this change happened. Would it only be necessary for black ops and marauders? |
Candente
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
17
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:45:00 -
[345] - Quote
Reiteration of the popular opinion here.
Don't make us train stuff after the patch for stuff we could fly before the patch.
That being said, it's ideal not to reimburse SP, but give players actual skills with equivalent level.
Some other ideas with the float chart:
- Ceptor -> Dictor -> HIC line should retain. Since training for T2 ship skills no longer have the racial T1 ship skills to V, I'd say the requirement to fly a HIC should include Interdictor IV, which has prereq of Interceptor IV. Please get rid of Graviton Physics IV requirement for HIC bubble.
- Buff Black Ops (for example, ability to warp cloaked) and link it to Covert Ops -> Recon line.
- Combat Recons should be split from Force Recon since they don't cloak. A suitable line would be Electronic Attack Ship -> Combat Recon, while Covert Ops -> Force Recon
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A Lunchbox
Basgerin Pirate
14
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:45:00 -
[346] - Quote
After reading all this, I have come to the conclusion:
I must be the only person in eve to train bs 5 for normal bs
Carry on flameage |
anzelotte
well of abyss
2
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:46:00 -
[347] - Quote
oh.. and i just wanted to propose complete remove racial specific ships skills.. just frigate, destroyer, cruiser etc skills + one < racial > starship command skill (with 16x traning time) which replace "spaceship command" and "advanced spaceship command". so to fly condor: you need "frigate level 2" and "caldari spaceship command level 1" abaddon: "battleship level 3" and "amarr spaceship command level 3" ragnarok: "titan level 1" and "minmatar spaceship command level 5" something like that..
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
323
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:46:00 -
[348] - Quote
Looks like a good change overall for going forward. Like most, I also express less than joy for having to retrain for that which I have already paid for in terms of subscription time. The rules were X, and get changed, now I have to pay for X again ... not ideal.
Those that come after and have to pay for the new skill trees, it may sound cold but, so what? They are new to the agreement and accept it. Those of us with many of these skills, like myself, who are cross trained on just about every sub-cap in the game to level 5, should not be subjected to having to do it again.
Grandfather us in, doing so will not alter the landscape. |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:46:00 -
[349] - Quote
Ntrails wrote:Has anyone got confirmation of whether they will be properly balancing headlights across the racial offerings? The current imbalance is disgraceful.
Too long have our headlights languished un-loved; enquiring minds must know!! |
Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
14
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:46:00 -
[350] - Quote
Mukutep wrote:Just want to make sure I understand what the reason for having Racial Battleship at V would be if this change happened. Would it only be necessary for black ops and marauders?
Well some people do fly Normal and Faction Battleships and quite enjoy having the maximum of their possible bonuses ;) |
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Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
116
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:47:00 -
[351] - Quote
Mukutep wrote:Just want to make sure I understand what the reason for having Racial Battleship at V would be if this change happened. Would it only be necessary for black ops and marauders?
The BS V bonuses to t1 BS's make some entire fits possible. and give a hefty boost to the amount of dps/rep in some cases... BUT!
Keep BS V requirement for all capitals |
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
424
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 19:47:00 -
[352] - Quote
CCP has given a rough picture of how they want ship progression to work. They have give NO details of the proposed trasition mechanism. Still, in typical EVE community fasion, people are filling in the blanks themselves and comment on this basis as if it where the thruth, virtually having a heart attack based on nothing but their own imagination.
Let me say that again: You havent been told about how CCP plans to transit from current state to end state. Stop acting like you do. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
335
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:47:00 -
[353] - Quote
The idea is fundamentally great, but like many people have pointed out, all of us who have made sure we are crosstrained extensively are going to be mighty pissed...
So, basically what would happen is overnight I would lose the ability to fly 3/4 of the BC and destroyers entirely and have to retrain, which lets face it is complete crap. Being able to jump literally into any T1 or t2 subcap is something I made sure I am capable of. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1093
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 19:47:00 -
[354] - Quote
Mukutep wrote:Just want to make sure I understand what the reason for having Racial Battleship at V would be if this change happened. Would it only be necessary for black ops and marauders?
Logically yes, outside of the obvious benefits of having BS level 5 to begin with. It is still the most universally used ship in the game. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:47:00 -
[355] - Quote
As far as retraining gripes: deal with it. If thats what needs to be done to implement a vastly cleaner system, then it should be done. Crap happens, and the trouble is more than worth it in the long run.
I'm glad CCP finally realized that there's a lot of hulls that are currently next to useless. I like the idea of giving each ship a place, rather than: "Do you want more attack or defense? Attack? Cool. Pick that one." "But what about these other two ships?" "Oh, those? Nobody uses those. They suck." "okay.jpg"
It'd also be nice to see mobility play an actual role. As it stands, it's mostly a matter of using modules to enhance mobility. The base ship stats don't make much of a difference. I think increasing the differences in mobility between ships would help (Instead of a 15 m/s increase of one ship over another, make it something like 50 m/s so it's actually a worthwhile consideration when choosing your ship.) Unfortunately when it comes to fleets that you can just warp anywhere, it's less of an issue. So I kind of doubt this whole 'make mobility more viable' thing is really practicable... I mean, we are flying large warships here; not cockpit fighters. It's just something to think about. When it comes to real life war fleets, for example, essentially every ship is there to support the carrier and protect it from outside threats, so most of the time they're trawling along at the speed of their slowest ship. |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:47:00 -
[356] - Quote
This is the dumbest idea second only to when you started to sell pants and monocles. I play since 2007 and crosstrained ALL subcapitals because every " x " months ccp nerf my favorite ship. Now they still find out a way to f.u.c.k up my ship hangar. I don't care if noobs can fly a carrier with bs 4, when someone conquer a right you can't just take that right away. Many people crosstrained different races and we deserve to fly what we skilled ( and payed with subscription) in several years. So change your mind because a shitstorm will hit this forum. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Exhale.
32
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:48:00 -
[357] - Quote
After getting hope after last patch in the new born "old" CCP it seems that they lost either the key to the meds they took the last month or just thinking "f... that BS community shizzle" we now back to our WoW in space plans were everyone should be lvl 80 space paladin in 50 days.
Shame on you CCP |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
495
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:48:00 -
[358] - Quote
Grideris wrote:
If you actually read through the dev blog, they are in the part where they describe the current state of ships. It's under the heading "Stating the not so obvious" and the line directly after that reads : "To understand what ships lines are all about, letGÇÖs recap the four theoretical factors that sort ships out:"
So those four trees are the current states.
Right.
A whole lot of images to show what is pretty obvious already to anyone who plays the game.
Quote:Stating the not so obvious
To understand what ships lines are all about, letGÇÖs recap the four theoretical factors that sort ships out:
Size
Tech
Tiers
Combining all these elements, we arrive at the following ship trees:
Reading that states at no point that these are showing the "current state of things". Hence, it's pretty unclear if you actually read the material. At no point does it say, "These images represent currently sorted ships out before the changes" The mention of removing tiers is done after the images, so there's no reason to presume that those images have anything to do with the old system, since we're trying to talk about the new system. Until that point you really are left thinking the images represent the new system. All they need to do is state a clarification that the images are as things currently are. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
184
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:49:00 -
[359] - Quote
Jump Freighters
Just to clarify - are we talking about requiring racial freighter to V for jump freighters, or racial industrial to IV for regular freighters and racial industrial to V for jump freighters (in addition to the regular jumpy nav skills)? With racial freighter skills at 10x training time (compared to the 8x for racial battleship) it would make for one very long train to get into JFs. |
bassie12bf1
Militaris Industries Cascade Imminent
15
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:49:00 -
[360] - Quote
Would this make the t1 mining cruisers and frigates useful for pvp then?
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