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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1093
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:49:00 -
[361] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:The idea is fundamentally great, but like many people have pointed out, all of us who have made sure we are crosstrained extensively are going to be mighty pissed...
So, basically what would happen is overnight I would lose the ability to fly 3/4 of the BC and destroyers entirely and have to retrain, which lets face it is complete crap. Being able to jump literally into any T1 or t2 subcap is something I made sure I am capable of.
Not to single you out, but yet again...
"IF YOU CAN FLY IT NOW, YOU CAN FLY IT LATER." When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
624
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:49:00 -
[362] - Quote
CCP Navigator is updating the devblog as we speak :) |
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Freelancer117
Obsidian Tigers
20
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:50:00 -
[363] - Quote
1st: CSM needs to be a major player in this like with the removal of learning skills, and rebalancing of the social skills
2nd: WHEN you redo the ships and their skills, make sure you reimburse players that at that time have all racial frigates to lvl5 and destroyer to lvl5 with enough reimbursed skillpoints to get all racial destroyers skill to lvl5.
same applies to the all racial battle cruiser skills, if the capsuleer has all racial cruiser skills to lvl5 and bc to lvl5
I don't care how you do this, but else there will be a major riot.
Im thinking of bubble layers (dictors) and fleet boosters (fleet command)
3rd: DON'T rush this because you have an Inferno deadline or some stupid scrum team deadline , ty |
Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
116
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:50:00 -
[364] - Quote
Giullare wrote:This is the dumbest idea second only to when you started to sell pants and monocles. I play since 2007 and crosstrained ALL subcapitals because every " x " months ccp nerf my favorite ship. Now they still find out a way to **** up my ship hangar. I don't care if noobs can fly a carrier with bs 4, when someone conquer a right you can't just take that right away. Many people crosstrained different races and we deserve to fly what we skilled ( and payed with subscriction) in several years. So change your mind because a shitstorm will hit this forum.
Still far too much discussion about skill queues instead of space ships. |
Luba Cibre
59
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:51:00 -
[365] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:CCP Navigator is updating the devblog as we speak :) he better has some good news and clarification for us. |
Asban
Panda Inc
5
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:51:00 -
[366] - Quote
The stated reason for splitting the desty/bc skills into racial versions is that it is bad to have 12 ships unlocked by a single skill. Could CCP elaborate a little more on why this is considered a bad thing? I'm on board for the other changes, but I'm just not seeing why this was a bad thing. Are BCs too strong, and the only way to justify keeping their power level that high is by making it harder to cross train into them? What's the rationale behind the split, because in all honesty, the pain doesn't seem worth the change if it's "just too confusing" |
KanashiiKami
9
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:51:00 -
[367] - Quote
looks like a dilema for CCP ... for me ...id say ... CCP should
1) refund all skill points since this is a pretty massive rework (ccp chooses a fixed date, everyone gets his SP reset/refunded) 2) every BC/destro skill refund x4 amt for player self re-allocate (or which ever skill that has to be quadruple trained)
yes players seems to get upper hand, but ccp have the option to shrink amt of SP required ... but increase number of skills tiers to get to the top ...
and i tend to agree that the shortened path to supercaps doesnt sound like a good idea. so really ... we are all going to end up in null sitting in supercaps? LOL ... so who is this bloke in a hurry to grab supers in a hurry?
anyway ... full reallocate and over dose of SP refunds is wad i will look forward to ... it WILL take some time to re-digest the entire new ship "tree" WUT ??? |
Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
116
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:52:00 -
[368] - Quote
bassie12bf1 wrote:Would this make the t1 mining cruisers and frigates useful for pvp then?
BOOOOO!!!!!
To be honest I love the look of the gallente mining frigate... but it mines... wtf...
MAKE MINING FRIGATES MORE INDUSTRIAL LOOKING!! |
Akara Ito
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
50
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:52:00 -
[369] - Quote
[quote=Scatim Helicon]Isn't it our job to define roles for particular ships, not yours?[/quote
This is my problem with this blog
Skill lines sounds like an awefull euphenism for getting warrior ships, mage ships, shaman ships, etc
Limiting ships to a single role is bullshit One of the great things about Eve is that you can fly every ship as you want PvP in Eve is often about finding a fitting that suits your need and getting effects out of ships that people dont expect
And yeah, racial BC skills are... weird Actually I dont know why they are even usefull Right now the skill system is mostly tree based, it splits up more and more the higher you get Whats the advantage of turning this into a single line system Its just annoying and a huge oversimplification
Also Battlecruisers are currently one of the most usefull shipclasses. Newbies can fly them quickly (if not good), while people with more SP can use progressively better fittings Racial skills would completely **** that and be a huge boot in the face for people with low sp chars
Oh and BS 4 for caps is horrible, a shitload of people crossskill caps and I guess there will be no sp reimbursement for BSV You'd have to reimburse so much skills to get these things done, its pathetic
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RLCHANCE
The Shadow Cartel
5
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:52:00 -
[370] - Quote
OK sounds good but that would make a lot of people so angry
My I dear Instead of that - Frigate Level 4, To Train Destroyers Destroyer Level 4, To train Cruisers Skill Cruiser Level 4, To train Battle-Cruisers Skill Battle-Cruiser Level 4, To train Battleships Skill
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
102
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:52:00 -
[371] - Quote
Silath Slyver Silverpine wrote:I'm glad CCP finally realized that there's a lot of hulls that are currently next to useless. I like the idea of giving each ship a place I'm sure no one mourns the loss of the tier system.
However, they better not push each hull into a niche. Making a hull do something it's technically not supposed to in order to surprise your opponent is one of the best parts of Eve. So here's hoping they pull it off.
Like I said though, I'm worried they are painting themselves into just another corner trading tiers for roles. But when they start to release some stats we can make a judgement based on that instead of guesswork.
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Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
60
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:52:00 -
[372] - Quote
Not only do that to Battelcruisers and destroyers, but also to heavy assault, marauders, etc... Also don't forget to give us SP when you do it, so that we can turn into maximized single or cross-trained ship hulls. |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
70
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:53:00 -
[373] - Quote
Holy ****.
There are a lot of good concepts in this blog, but you're talking about radically changing more than half the ships in eve, including many ships that people do use (if you're gonna do stuff like give Amarr a TD and drone BS). I have no idea if this is going to end in success or disaster.
Basically, I love what's been shared so far, but please please do everything possible to avoid messing this up. (That includes talking to the CSM in ways you apparently have not so far on this issue) |
Mistredo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:53:00 -
[374] - Quote
anzelotte wrote:oh.. and i just wanted to propose complete remove racial specific ships skills.. just frigate, destroyer, cruiser etc skills + one < racial > starship command skill (with 16x traning time) which replace "spaceship command" and "advanced spaceship command". so to fly condor: you need "frigate level 2" and "caldari spaceship command level 1" abaddon: "battleship level 3" and "amarr spaceship command level 3" ragnarok: "titan level 1" and "minmatar spaceship command level 5" something like that..
This is great idea and I would love to see that. |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:53:00 -
[375] - Quote
Why not put all this time and effort into actually re-balancing those neglected ships and filling those tier holes which have been endlessly discussed for nigh on the last 8 years if that's what, in the end, this is all about?
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1093
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:53:00 -
[376] - Quote
Luba Cibre wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:CCP Navigator is updating the devblog as we speak :) he better has some good news and clarification for us.
Likely it will boil down to...
"IF YOU CAN FLY IT NOW, YOU CAN FLY IT LATER."
Which, in essence, is all anyone is really concerned about.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
588
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:53:00 -
[377] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:The idea is fundamentally great, but like many people have pointed out, all of us who have made sure we are crosstrained extensively are going to be mighty pissed...
So, basically what would happen is overnight I would lose the ability to fly 3/4 of the BC and destroyers entirely and have to retrain, which lets face it is complete crap. Being able to jump literally into any T1 or t2 subcap is something I made sure I am capable of.
One more time for the stupid people:
CCP Soundwave wrote: No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.
This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Alara IonStorm
1732
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:54:00 -
[378] - Quote
bassie12bf1 wrote:Would this make the t1 mining cruisers and frigates useful for pvp then?
I don't know about the Frigates but I really hope the T1 Logi actually becomes real T1 Logi. |
Shangpo
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
6
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:54:00 -
[379] - Quote
KanashiiKami wrote:looks like a dilema for CCP ... for me ...id say ... CCP should
1) refund all skill points since this is a pretty massive rework (ccp chooses a fixed date, everyone gets his SP reset/refunded)
anyway ... full reallocate and over dose of SP refunds is wad i will look forward to ... it WILL take some time to re-digest the entire new ship "tree"
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=899067#post899067
Yup, I said that too |
Vanir Waelcyrge
Enochian Key
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:54:00 -
[380] - Quote
Probably been suggested above, but here we go.
I beleive a better way to change the ship skills would be to ease crosstraining, but make ship line skills racial.
Create general frigate, crusier and battleship skills usable to fly all of their type (the same as destroyer and battrecruiser today). Make all new specialist skills racial, and make them higher rank. Separe ship bonuses so that the more important/profilic of the bonus type on each ship is related the the racial skill of the ship. Only basic bonuses should be tied to the level of ship skills.
This would make people able to trying out more ships and faster too. But getting the important role bonuses would take more time and investment.
It would simplify the change. Keep the highest racial ship skill level you have and get the other reimbursed. Any reimbursed points could then be spent on the new ship line skills.
As a bonus; if the ship line skills wasn't identical to all races we could get more flavor back into the empires. Make the empires differ more than the choice of colour schemes.
/Vanir |
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Shin Dari
The Vendunari Warped Aggression
33
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:55:00 -
[381] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Re-balancing is on our minds as many of you know and CCP Ytterbium is here to tell you all about some major changes we'll be seeing the start of soon. Please go here to read the blog and as always, we're eager to hear your feedback. I have been looking at the math of the current suggestion, and that seems to be a bit hard to implement properly. Racial specialization is good, but why not accept a matrix?
Axis 1: Frigate -> Destroyer -> Cruiser -> Battlecruiser -> Battleship -> Capitals Axis 2: Racial ship skill (high rank skill)
Example "Amarr Ship" skill: Amarr Ships 1: Amarr Small ships Amarr Ships 2: Amarr Medium ships Amarr Ships 3: Amarr Large ships Amarr Ships 4: Amarr Capital ships Amarr Ships 5: Amarr Super-Capitals ships
An Amarr Noob will start with Amarr Ships 1 and Frigate 1.
A reimbursement under a matrix system could require less SP (depends upon the ranks) and be far simpler to implement. |
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions The Laughing Men
61
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:55:00 -
[382] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Mikron Alexarr wrote:Erim Solfara wrote:Mikron Alexarr wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Isn't it our job to define roles for particular ships, not yours? Quoted for Truth. does the term sandbox mean anything to anyone anymore? Lies and fallacy, CCP make the game, balance the ships, and give them bonuses. If you want to fly one different to it's intended use, go ahead, but they should all have obvious intended uses. Today, I watched a video of an iteron taking out a megathron, which was awesome. It was awesome because someone had taken a ship with an obvious intended role, and used it completely differently. If the iteron HAD no role, and was just another blank-slate hull, it'd have been completely meaningless, no different to someone using any other cruiser sized ship. Your argument holds no water. I'll try and make this simple. The role of a blockade runner did exist before the t2 haulers (I fly the crane for instance). The best ship for this was debatable (sigil with speed mods in low, badger with ECM). Then it was decided that t2 haulers should exist. \0/ It was the players that defined the role. CCP can enable roles to form, but we the players decide what we like for a particular role. Yes, player actions highlight (to a degree) different needed ship roles... CCP often designs their ships with this in mind. Which, fortunately, is exactly what is occuring here.
alright... another example then.
Before the days of the drake, there was only the ferox. Poor ferox wasn't very good with turrets. The players still needed something to run L3 missions with, but luckily, CCP had given the ferox unbonused launcher hard points.
The role of the ferox as designed by CCP was quite clear. The only reason the ferox ever peaked up above 10% market share of production was it's missile hard points that allowed it to be a very viable mission boat.
The whole point is that just because CCP gives a ship a role, doesn't mean that's what players will use it for.
Also, cormoront = salvager. Nothing else needs said here. |
Mibad
Caldari Provisions
48
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:55:00 -
[383] - Quote
Very "sound" changes ;) Will be great to streamline everything to make ship balancing much easier. I'm all for it.
Still amazes me how many people here rage about the skill change fail to read the whole blog. You know the very important part that says you will be fully reimbursed and still able to fly what you did before... |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
588
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:55:00 -
[384] - Quote
Akara Ito wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Isn't it our job to define roles for particular ships, not yours? This is my problem with this blog Skill lines sounds like an awefull euphenism for getting warrior ships, mage ships, shaman ships, etc
Great idea!
I want a Shadowknight ship!
This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
stoicfaux
765
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:56:00 -
[385] - Quote
+1.0 for something that is long overdue -0.5 if we have to retrain for ships we can already fly (i.e. the BC/Destroyer skill makeover)
0.5 which rounds up to +1.
Great change, but I'm going to loathe having to train multiple BC5 skills.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
16
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:56:00 -
[386] - Quote
Mibad wrote:Very "sound" changes ;) Will be great to streamline everything to make ship balancing much easier. I'm all for it.
Still amazes me how many people here rage about the skill change fail to read the whole blog. You know the very important part that says you will be fully reimbursed and still able to fly what you did before...
This.
Seems some folk need to brush up on reading comprehension ... or just read the fricken dev blog to begin with. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics Bringers of Death.
598
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:56:00 -
[387] - Quote
Yay. More things to train.
Whenever I think of opening a 3rd account, I'll be sure to consider how much fun I'll have... training more stuff.
I'm sure that will motivate me.
By the way, what are you gonna do for all those people who trained BS5 just to fly carriers? This is kind of a "Haha ****-you" to them, isn't it? |
Yasuhiro Shoe
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:57:00 -
[388] - Quote
Quote:Bombardment ships: provide heavy fire support to pin the enemy down with constant barrage of ordnance.
I would like to point out once again, that heavy fire does not in fact pin the enemy down: in Eve movement / warp are not restriced nor hindered by explosions. Barring further changes in the mechanics, this concept is fundamentally broken, as it's simply a delayed dps/alpha role with no clear advantage over turrets' instant effects.
Apart from that, interesting if controversial blog. Keep it coming.
I don't care about nor see much point to the skillbook changes. It seems like a waste of effort.
The emancipation of tiers is very much welcome.
Will production be impacted by this change? Right now weaker tiers cost less to manufacture. Are you going to rebalance that too?
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
935
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:57:00 -
[389] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:+1.0 for something that is long overdue -0.5 if we have to retrain for ships we can already fly (i.e. the BC/Destroyer skill makeover)
0.5 which rounds up to +1.
Great change, but I'm going to loathe having to train multiple BC5 skills.
Fortunately, you won't. It helps to read. ;-)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
7
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:58:00 -
[390] - Quote
Finally \o/ I've been waiting for a balancing blog that shows some vision for years. I'm glad to see you have the guts to make EVE better, even in the face of a lot of complaining about the difficulties involved with crosstraining. If it means certain people get an outrageous amount of "free" SP in comparison to those of us who have pretty much trained just one race for 6 years, so be it ;) |
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