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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Alara IonStorm
1738
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:45:00 -
[511] - Quote
rachealdoll wrote:I'M NEW TO THIS GAME AND JUST STARTED ON BATTLECRUISERS AND NOW I WILL HAVE TO SPEND AGES JUST TO FLY THE SAME STUFF THIS IS CRAZY I REALLY DON'T THINK I WILL STAY WITH THIS GAME IF YOU KEEP PULLIUNG THE RUG FROM UNDER ME ALL TIME. Step away from the coffee and caps lock button before you stroke out.
CCP Soundwave wrote:No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up. You do not have to retrain any skills to fly what you can already fly.
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Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
118
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:45:00 -
[512] - Quote
Politik Kommissar wrote:Seriously CCP you have fucktons of stuff to be fixed before doing this idiotic changes. Haven't you did enough errors in the recent past? Wanna neglect more and more the LOYAL veteran players in favor of new unpredictable recruits? Pls go on!! but dont cry if your "toy" will broke in your hands.
Could people please stop posting with their alts and bring something constructive to the thread instead of flaming... jeeze... |
Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
69
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:46:00 -
[513] - Quote
Akelorian wrote:Svennig wrote:Akelorian wrote:Svennig wrote:Akelorian wrote:CCP Soundwave to Goons: Herp Derp BS4 for Capitals CCP Soundwave to Eve: Yea we ruining your game like promised Honestly, I just don't know how I feel about this. I'm not sure how much the BS V requirement deters people from caps. For me, it was just something that needed to be done - it didn't stop me and, as it was on a dedicated alt, it wasn't as if I could have trained something else. I'm not sure how much I'm bothered about BS IV for caps. It changes years of everyone training this skill to get into capital ships, so now its changed to a much quicker process to make capital/supercapital alts and or mains that in my opinion is the dumbest change thats listed here. But this just means that the alt is, what, 30 days quicker? I mean what's that in a carrier skillplan which (if done right) takes a hell of a long time and the racial BS skill is one of the smallest parts? Surely all this will do is get more newbies into carriers, and that's good for people who want to gank them? For anyone else (for example, goonswarm as you've mentioned), this turns a year skillplan into a 330 day skillplan. That doesn't seem to be terrible. Rationally, I'm ok with it. But something in the back of my mind does say that BS IV isn't right, but I can't rationalise it so it's probably not sensible. Tell me then how many people are closer now to capitals because of this ******** change they plan to put in? Like me, you spent that 30+ days just doing bs 5, then after that what, 4-5days for carriers? sure not maxed but who cares if your just going to suicide fleet them. If your going to properly max train them, then yes the extra 30 days is worth it.
Then after that I did carrier IV, all the drone skills, Energy management V, energy systems operation V, tanking skills to IV, all the remote reps to IV, CET to IV, CAR to IV, JDC V (ohgod) and on and on.
Even a suicide triage fit isn't going to be THAT much quicker - you're still going to need semi-decent capacitor skills and you'll need logi V.
If this made it so that it took half the time to get into a carrier I'd be worried. But the more I think about it, the more that I think that BS V was just a hurdle, and not a particularly large one compared to all the other things you have to train to use it.
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Mary Mercer
King Wholesaling
55
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:46:00 -
[514] - Quote
Full point refunds for all! |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
6
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:46:00 -
[515] - Quote
If you are changing the ships up, what about doing a selectable bonus. This will not be anywhere near as configurable as T3's, but could really mix things up turning each T1 ship into a few different ships.
For example, the Bellicose:
7.5 bonus to target painter effectiveness
Choose between: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Rate of Fire 10% bonus to targeting range per level
The bonuses are picked when you unpackage the ship. At that point is locked into its configuration until you repackage it. This will let you guys deploy multiple ships without any changes to artwork and people will have to guess between which 2 bonuses you picked.
The above is just a crude example. I would expect CCP already has some idea on different roles. This is simple enough that a person only has to know option A, B, or even C of each ship. Its not nearly as diverse as T3s, but can turn a ship from front line to support or vice versa. It could also turn a ship into a all tank, all gank, or half and half versions. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
57
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:47:00 -
[516] - Quote
Reading the blog convinced me that CCP doesnt play eve.
"Quote:Attack vessels: Made for hit and run assault, or flanking opportunities. Have great damage and mobility, but average defense. Similar in role with cavalry. EVE examples: Armageddon, Megathron, Tempest, Oracle, Thorax, Hurricane, Dominix, Myrmidon.
Seriously? Hit and run megathrons? Domis have "average defense"?
Reading more just has more silliness. People dont use target painters because minmatar dont use HAMs and torps. Thats totally why people dont use TPs. It has nothing to do with webs being better in most situations. Also people never mix races in fleets. If you are using rapiers, you must have a minmatar only fleet, no drakes, no other missiles boats.
Speaking of the drake, Quote: Bombardment ships: provide heavy fire support to pin the enemy down with constant barrage of ordnance. Have great damage and range, average defense and mobility. Can be compared to artillery. EVE examples: Raven, Drake, caracal.
This is not the role of the drake. Despite what CCP intended or tried to do, the drake is not the same as the raven or the caracal. Check with PODLA on how to fly a drake, not people running level 4s in highsec. |
Aase Nord
Vikinghall
21
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:47:00 -
[517] - Quote
So... My dear CCP devs..... I can fly all races T3 cruisers... and comandships... with perfect leadership skills... What am I going to loose ? |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:47:00 -
[518] - Quote
Holy Crap I was only gone a couple hours to mail my tax forms and pick up Mass Effect 3!
In general support this blog.
I like the idea of removing tiers and rebalancing the ships based on roles. It would be good to be able to have more choices about what to fly and to see some of the lower tier ships get buffed.
So who's with me on training up all the racial ship skills so we can get reimbursed for all the new destroyer and battlecruiser skills we would need to have? Don't know if I would actually do that but wouldn't care if it worked that way.
So is the next plan to stream line the module system?
Where there are consistent progressions of primary purpose and fitting requirements.
So that we don't have some Meta 4 Tech 1 items better than Tech 2?
If you did that my suggestion would be, Tech one progress with both better stats and better fitting to highest meta level. Then Tech 2 has base Tech 1 fittings but better than meta 4 stats. Faction items are as good as meta 4 fitting and get as good of stats or have either fitting or stats better then meta 4 and get better at both as they progress, Deadspace get really awesome stats, and officer pretty much stay as crazy as some are today.
Of course I think you could do a lot with modules if you broke them up more into sizes in many categories.
But anyway, interesting changes, don't let the Inferno burn you to bad.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
948
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:48:00 -
[519] - Quote
Aase Nord wrote:So... My dear CCP devs..... I can fly all races T3 cruisers... and comandships... with perfect leadership skills... What am I going to loose ?
CCP Soundwave has repeatedly said you'll lose nothing. I suspect that you may lose ISK when you get podded because it'll push your total SP high enough to need a new clone type! :P
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Aurianka
Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner Ev0ke
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:49:00 -
[520] - Quote
and whats next? player respawn? you should work on the 0.0 Problematic. well, I hate mainstream, so I play eve, when the crap comes I quit eve. No station shooting anymore. |
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Akiriy Azuriko
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:50:00 -
[521] - Quote
Aase Nord wrote:So... My dear CCP devs..... I can fly all races T3 cruisers... and comandships... with perfect leadership skills... What am I going to loose ?
ok now im scared whats clashing ? |
hrusha
Open Designs Emergent Avionics
2
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:50:00 -
[522] - Quote
rachealdoll wrote:I'M NEW TO THIS GAME AND JUST STARTED ON BATTLECRUISERS AND NOW I WILL HAVE TO SPEND AGES JUST TO FLY THE SAME STUFF THIS IS CRAZY I REALLY DON'T THINK I WILL STAY WITH THIS GAME IF YOU KEEP PULLIUNG THE RUG FROM UNDER ME ALL TIME.
Cool story bro, but if you just started then AT MOST you'll loose -- ehhh a day or two? Try harder.
Hru |
Korinne
The Partisan Brigade Republic Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:50:00 -
[523] - Quote
This seems like another case of changing something for the sake of saying you changed it. You don't have to majorly overhaul the game every 4 months to keep it interesting/new/profit/etc. The game you have is fine now, just stick to tweaking and rebalancing what you have before you go and breaking it just so you can say it's new and shiny. The last several patches have been nothing BUT new and shiny and have been largely disliked by or at least considered with a level of ambivalence by the playerbase. It also makes it hard to believe that you don't have the resources to get real things done when you apparently have time to churn out bullshit and spend more time trying to make Dust not be a failfest. It's nigh impossible to take you guys (CCP) seriously anymore and it's no wonder that people are dropping like flies. |
Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
118
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:50:00 -
[524] - Quote
Can we get a CSM rep response? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
273
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:51:00 -
[525] - Quote
Why do people think there's only one work stream?
Just because there's ship balancing (this dev blog) It doesn't mean other things won't be happening too. They do have a number of development teams, you know. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Kalaratiri
Teraa Matar
117
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:51:00 -
[526] - Quote
Quote:Attack vessels: Made for hit and run assault, or flanking opportunities. Have great damage and mobility, but average defense. Similar in role with cavalry. EVE examples: Armageddon, Megathron, Tempest, Oracle, Thorax, Hurricane, Dominix, Myrmidon.
/o\ Of that list, only the Cane, Tempest, Oracle, and maaaybe the thorax and myrm depending on fittings can do anything like 'hit and run'.
Hit and run Armageddon..? The brick tank with 8 low slots? What? |
Lemming Alpha1dash1
Lemmings Online
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:51:00 -
[527] - Quote
EvE Online:
aka
Pirates of the Burning Space
(Combat ships: a good representation would be 18th century "ships of the line" + Inferno) |
Alara IonStorm
1741
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:52:00 -
[528] - Quote
Korinne wrote:It's nigh impossible to take you guys (CCP) seriously anymore and it's no wonder that people are dropping like flies. Subs have past 400k and are rising but sure.
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Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
246
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:52:00 -
[529] - Quote
I think removing the battleship lvl 5 req from capitals is a very bad idea. BS 5 provided a large investment of time to complete and provided a barrier(a good one) against everyone and their alts having capitals.
Yeah I said barrier. Stuff Goes here |
Aase Nord
Vikinghall
21
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:53:00 -
[530] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Aase Nord wrote:So... My dear CCP devs..... I can fly all races T3 cruisers... and comandships... with perfect leadership skills... What am I going to loose ? CCP Soundwave has repeatedly said you'll lose nothing. I suspect that you may lose ISK when you get podded because it'll push your total SP high enough to need a new clone type! :P -Liang
Thank you for that ansver.... But.... I would like to hear that from CCP
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MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
163
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:53:00 -
[531] - Quote
Should probably post this in the actual feedback thread too:
As it stands right now, you would potentially benefit hugely if you have Destroyer to V (500,000 SP) and Battlecruiser to V (1.5 million SP) done now because to 'make it fair and flyable' you would suddenly have to be given four Racial Destroyer to V and four Racial Battlecruiser to V or a bonus of potentially 6million SP under the current system. So long as I had the required skills to fly all four races I could lay claim to such a thing, and that only requires a day of training for per race to claim. But failure to plan such a thing ahead of time could mean the potential of having to train that same six million SP in the future if you wanted it.
I don't always finish my commentary, but when I do |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
63
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:54:00 -
[532] - Quote
So basically I'm going to have to respec and train 3 new BC skills to V to get back to where I am now. Can you at least throw in a bonus remap? |
Feawin
Northstar Cabal Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:54:00 -
[533] - Quote
I like the idea of removing ship tiers. One thing you should consider is reimbursing people skill-wise for their bs 5 skills. I would never have trained gallente battleship 5 if it werent for the thanatos i wanted to fly. And gallente bs 5 is quite useless in itself. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
590
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:54:00 -
[534] - Quote
X10punishment CEO wrote:Everyone i have spoke to hates this idea its stuiped u cannot make us train for something we already have you assholes are just after more rl isk
Easy solution, stop talking to people.
Stupid seems to be a communicable disease, and you're spreading it!
One more time for the short bus crowd:
CCP Soundwave wrote: No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.
This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
Mary Mercer
King Wholesaling
55
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:54:00 -
[535] - Quote
Natalie Cerulean wrote:I don't like this at all personally. I have two characters one is more or less pure caldari, and the the other is pure amarr (currently training her for capital ships).
While it "makes more sense" until I can see a way to fix it so that you are screwing everyone who has already trained their racial skills up I 100% disapprove.
I was completely looking forward to knowing that those race specific tech 2 skills I trained wouldn't need to be retrained (I can currently fly all subcapital t2 ships on this one).
If you want to fix a broken tree, work on missiles to make it more in line with the way gunnery is set up e.g. frigate sized generic, with rocket, and standard spec as opposed to making them separate skill lines.
They will work out reimbursing skill points and letting you reuse them, my goodness quit freaking out people. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
275
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:55:00 -
[536] - Quote
Aase Nord wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Aase Nord wrote:So... My dear CCP devs..... I can fly all races T3 cruisers... and comandships... with perfect leadership skills... What am I going to loose ? CCP Soundwave has repeatedly said you'll lose nothing. I suspect that you may lose ISK when you get podded because it'll push your total SP high enough to need a new clone type! :P -Liang Thank you for that ansver.... But.... I would like to hear that from CCP
Go back to the first post. then read all the dev responses. profit. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Sunrise Aigele
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:55:00 -
[537] - Quote
First: Death to ship tiers! Yes! Thank you!
Now, a suggestion: Flip the script: Split Spaceship Command into 4 [Faction] Spaceship Command skills; give everyone who has Spaceship Command all four of the new skills trained to the level they had Spaceship Command trained. Do the same with Advanced Spaceship Command. Then make Frigate, Cruiser and Battleship generic. Reimburse everyone who has more than one factional skill trained.
For bonus points, move Logistics, Covert Ops, and other specialization skills to tier 1, and have the different ship roles get bonuses based on the capsuleer rank in those skills. At [Role Skill] V and [Ship Skill] IV, or something like that, you get to fly the T2 equivalents.
Finally, if you lower the Covetor's requirement to Mining Barge IV, aren't you obsoleting the Retriever in the same way that the quick train from I to III obsoletes the... whatever it's called? The littlest mining barge that nobody flies? Maybe the T1 mining barges should get roles, too. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
948
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:55:00 -
[538] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:Should probably post this in the actual feedback thread too:
As it stands right now, you would potentially benefit hugely if you have Destroyer to V (500,000 SP) and Battlecruiser to V (1.5 million SP) done now because to 'make it fair and flyable' you would suddenly have to be given four Racial Destroyer to V and four Racial Battlecruiser to V or a bonus of potentially 6million SP under the current system. So long as I had the required skills to fly all four races I could lay claim to such a thing, and that only requires a day of training for per race to claim. But failure to plan such a thing ahead of time could mean the potential of having to train that same six million SP in the future if you wanted it.
What do you really gain here except SP that is equivalent to what you already have? Really, extra SP that doesn't give you anything new means nothing except a higher clone cost.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:55:00 -
[539] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:
Hit and run Armageddon..? The brick tank with 8 low slots? What?
Apparently I've been doing it wrong and should have been using propulsion mods and nano-fibers instead of plates, resist mods and heat sinks.... |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
13
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:55:00 -
[540] - Quote
Svennig wrote:Akelorian wrote:Svennig wrote:Akelorian wrote:CCP Soundwave to Goons: Herp Derp BS4 for Capitals CCP Soundwave to Eve: Yea we ruining your game like promised Honestly, I just don't know how I feel about this. I'm not sure how much the BS V requirement deters people from caps. For me, it was just something that needed to be done - it didn't stop me and, as it was on a dedicated alt, it wasn't as if I could have trained something else. I'm not sure how much I'm bothered about BS IV for caps. It changes years of everyone training this skill to get into capital ships, so now its changed to a much quicker process to make capital/supercapital alts and or mains that in my opinion is the dumbest change thats listed here. But this just means that the alt is, what, 30 days quicker? I mean what's that in a carrier skillplan which (if done right) takes a hell of a long time and the racial BS skill is one of the smallest parts? Surely all this will do is get more newbies into carriers, and that's good for people who want to gank them? For anyone else (for example, goonswarm as you've mentioned), this turns a year skillplan into a 330 day skillplan. That doesn't seem to be terrible. Rationally, I'm ok with it. But something in the back of my mind does say that BS IV isn't right, but I can't rationalise it so it's probably not sensible.
Aside from any other concerns; Id say for me it's more that bs V for caps is and should be a mental barrier and a bit of a milestone for your progression in the game. Moving up into them should take a bit of consideration, a bit of agonising about investing the time in pre-reqs etc. [it also has a bearing on alt accounts and capital proliferation as well since, I for one, if this were to go through would very rapidly get 6 previously noob cyno/utiity alts in carriers whereas currently bs V is too much of an investment, especially when plex prices are rising and every sp spent on an account is a precious commodity for me to make them cross that training hurdle into a new area of specialisation.] |
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