Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 72 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Iniquita
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:29:00 -
[91] - Quote
I feel this makes sense going forward but what needs to happen for existing players is that if you have requisite skills for Destroyers or Battlecruisers that you get enough SP to ensure you can still fly all those specific racial ships at the same level.
So if I have Amarr, Minmatar, Caldari Cruiser skills and BC5, I should get enough SP to ensure under the new system I can get BC5 in Caldari, Minmatar, And Amarr.
The same holds true for destroyers.
That said I am extremely excited about the possibility of racial battleship class ewar platforms besides the scorpion. |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:29:00 -
[92] - Quote
If you currently have all the prerequsits you get the new skills to the same level?
So if I have 4 cruisers and BC V, then I get 4 cruisers and 4 ratial BCs to V.
I understand it makes sense going forward, but current players will take ~3-4 months to retrain all these new skills. |
fab24
Tax Fraud Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
WTF? I spent 6 years training skills that you're going to remove? Fail level : CCP |
Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:29:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. It's more than "not appealing", it's downright repugnant.
In my opinion, a better solution would be to give people who already have Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained the same level in all of the racial versions of the skills for which they have the prerequisites. Thus if someone has Destroyers V trained, and has Minmatar and Amarr Frigate skills trained to IV, they should get Minmatar Destroyers V and Amarr Destroyers V.
Another possibility would be to keep the generic skills but rejig the Cruiser and Battleship skills to add Destroyer and Battlecruiser prerequistes as appropriate, and update the racial skill requirements on Destroyers and Battlecruisers to reflect the new progression.
Examples:
- Amarr Battleship skill would have the prerequisites Amarr Cruiser IV, Battlecruisers IV.
- The Prophecy would now require Amarr Cruiser IV to fly.
Finally, if you could rejig the skill system to allow for "either / or" prerequisites for skills then you could make it so that the generic Destroyers skill could be trained with any of the four racial frigate skills trained to IV. This might be more work and risk than you're able to have with the project though. |
Temmu Guerra
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:29:00 -
[95] - Quote
Orion GUardian wrote:PS: Especially for people like me with long standing Skill plans, I am going for INT/MEM nowadays and the plan is due to end in 450 days....if Inferno were to force me to get into PEr/will just to get back into my ships it would make me lose even more than just TIME!
You know you could train out of what your currently mapped to... I promise it wont kill you... |
Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:29:00 -
[96] - Quote
Awesome blog. The idea of removing the tier system is beyond great, the streamlining of ship requirements also makes sense. The devil is, as always, in the details. Hope you can come up with something that won't **** off too many players (me included). Good luck. |
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:30:00 -
[97] - Quote
If this gets done properly, well done, outstanding stuff.
If it doesn't...... "Fools! I'll show them all!"
What do you mean that one's already taken? |
SpaceSquirrels
266
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:30:00 -
[98] - Quote
WOOOOOOHHHOOO
Though I'm now pissed that I trained all those prereq ships...And now might hold off on others.
But I love getting rid of tiers and emphasize role warfare to mix things up, and create new options. |
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
96
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Eugh.... Just what we always wanted... having to spend even *MORE* time cross-training to experience the different races and play styles of EvE.
Battlecruisers is one of the best skills there is for a very good reason; you spend a month training it and then it gives you lots of flexibility. You get it, and it opens lots of doors... and variety is what people enjoy.
If you do this, then a lot of people, myself included, are going to be pissed. It's introducing more drag just for the hell of it. Three additional BC skills to four at the same is what? Another two weeks or something? Throw in one or two races to level five and it's about two more months of subscription time for CCP.
Get yer tinfoils on! |
Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
Orion GUardian wrote:I Blackbird for example was an easy to train for ship, it will be prolonged for about a week now (doesn't sound much, but if you are a newbie that is quite some time!) Especially as it stands today that Destroyers are very rarely used and considered "useless" by alot of people.
The points of this sort of change is so that CCP can rebalance easier and make sure ships like destroyers have useful roles.
Look forwards, not backwards :D |
|
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
647
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:30:00 -
[101] - Quote
I have to say, what the hell...
What are the ranks of these skills going to be?
I currently fly 3 races of Command Ships on a regular basis, and all 4 races of battlecruiser. I have alts that fly all 4 in both command ships and battlecruisers. Am I going to be forced to choose one, then train 3 more rank 6 skills from 0 to 5 before I can get back to where I was already?
Oh, and if nobody's said it yet, removing the requirement for Battleship 5 to get into capital ships is a horrible idea. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Dinta Zembo
Snuff Box
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
Dasrufken wrote:Szilardis wrote:Grideris wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
Is it possible to instead of refunding the SP, just give the skills instead? Because if you can do so, here is what I would do:
- If a player has Racial Frigate III and Destroyers X - give player Recial Destroyer X for every race they have Racial Frigate III in
- Ditto for Battlecruisers
I could support this. seconded
'thirded'? |
AetomHaert Mother
Star Frontiers Initiative Mercenaries
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
Then you should fully realize that this is not an appealing way of balancing skill training. I could care less about the reimbursement, I do not want to train 90 more days to have an awesome oracle, awesome talos/myrm and awesome cane.
As a bitter vet who has payed you lots of money over 2 accounts over 5 years and has cross trained almost every ship class, I just saw a little roid rage red. Maybe I am over reacting, but thats $40 worth of wasted training time. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
773
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:32:00 -
[104] - Quote
CCP please fix your images they crash the dev blog pages as the browsers seem to load them at full size.
Anyway.....
First, I dont want to have to train 5 different bc's to 5 again so i can fly my command ships, especially when i own one from each race. Doing so just screws over the vets who trained all this stuff to 5. So you really need to think long and hard about how you are going to gives us all skill points so that they are all trained to 5.
Next - the charts make it look like capitals have a lower barrier of entry. BAD! BAD CCP! no cookies for you. If anything capitals need a steeper barrier of entry. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
Me gusta. -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
I'm flying already all BC, BS from 3 faction and all hacs regulary. It would be awful to start training again and to me a reason not to play eve. |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
714
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:34:00 -
[107] - Quote
Intrigued by the idea, worried about the implementation. All the more reason to vote for someone who actually flies these ships for CSM 7
(I fly all these ships~) |
YouShouldntEatIt
Matte Gray
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:34:00 -
[108] - Quote
Pallidum Treponema wrote:Changing skill requirements, Yes. Being able to train for, for instance, recons without having to train for covert ops first. That I can agree with.
The only thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is to fly a battlecruiser (essentially a bigger cruiser) requires the cruiser skill. so why shouldn't a recon (essentially a bigger covert op) require covert op skills?
Of course, this is just how I view the ship progression in eve. Maybe it's because I grew up with the current system >.> |
Neddy Fox
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:34:00 -
[109] - Quote
Having command ship 5 and 4 jumpclones with mindlinks, flying all 4 command ships regularly I hope this won't bite back if implemented wrong.
I will not train 4 times BC5 and CS5 unless I get somehow all SP's for all 4 races reimbursed so I don't lose any capability.
|
Cannonball1
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Any general skillbooks that you make racial (i.e., Destroyer, Battlecruiser, etc.) had better be refunded at 4 times the skillpoints so that current pilots can immediately train the racial equivalent of each ship to previous levels. Failure to do so will create severe disruptions for 0.0 pilots who fly different races of such ships. Failure to do so would also be unfair to pilots who trained those skills to level V expressly because they were so versatile. |
|
Shin Dari
The Vendunari Warped Aggression
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:35:00 -
[111] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded. -Liang There is a problem with that, I and many others don't want the extra skill points. I might go with that option if CCP would also allow us to trim skills away so that we don't get too many skill points. |
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:35:00 -
[112] - Quote
This is going to be controversial.
First, I will say that the proposed changes sound really great. The more I think about it the better it feels like it will be. Taking away tiers is a very good idea. You'l have to bear in mind the mineral composition of each ship because if you make something that was a very low tier really really good, then no one will buy anything else, because with a lower mineral composition it will cost less to buy.
Im sure I dont have to say this, but CCP is going to need to be very very careful with the skills. If you stop people from being able to fly ships that they can already fly (and probably love to play), then your going to have an uprising. In the same way, if you make it so people who have spent a great deal of time training for optimal use of a certain ship are now crap with it, you'l get the same effect.
Long and Short of it; Like the sound of the changes to ships, but be very very careful when playing with people's skills.
o7 |
Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:35:00 -
[113] - Quote
this is the stupidest idea i've EVER heard..
Que the riots and usubs.. how the **** did this even get sugested? |
Yakumo Smith
The Forsakened Companions
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:35:00 -
[114] - Quote
In eve, decisions you make with skills are supposed to carry with you.
I have made a point of not training Yak into Capital ships. I have instead cross trained into all subcap combat ships. This was a decision I took when I first started playing 95m SP ago.
This change feels like I am being punished for actually planning ahead with my character. While I agree a simplified tree would be nice, but it doesn't change the fact I have a potentially large number of skills I need to train in order to be able to use the current ships I do at the efficiency level I do. (so no I would not consider giving me the racial skills to IV + all the SP from BC V as a "win")
There is a growing trend of these mini respecs, disguised in different clothes, but respecs none the less.
Learning skills - was a respec Social skills - respec This change - respec
I think it's time you just bite the bullet and push all changes of this type that could appear in the future in one go and give a respec rather than giving everyone a respec over time in drips and drabs.
|
Catho Sharn
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:36:00 -
[115] - Quote
Forcing more roadblocks into the ship skills tree is a terrible idea.
|
Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:36:00 -
[116] - Quote
YouShouldntEatIt wrote: The only thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is to fly a battlecruiser (essentially a bigger cruiser) requires the cruiser skill. so why shouldn't a recon (essentially a bigger covert op) require covert op skills?
Of course, this is just how I view the ship progression in eve. Maybe it's because I grew up with the current system >.>
Yeah. Ignoring the class size tiers, the current system did make sense. Doesn't mean it should stay that way though.
|
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:37:00 -
[117] - Quote
first thing i thought after reading about the skill changes was "all those guys in null sec will be fighting tooth and nail in frigates cause barely anyone will have trained destroyers" and on another note of that at least add another 1 or 2 destroyers to actualy make that class worth even moving into after frigate. |
Milamar Tokugawa
Tribal Core
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:37:00 -
[118] - Quote
No. Just no.
Carriers with battleship 4?
No. |
Tore Vest
286
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
NICE... !!! All my plans and goals for me and my alts out of the window...
This game is getting dumber..
A real highsec carebear. |
SamGromoff
Padded Helmets
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:38:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kozmic wrote:For those of us with all racial sub-caps, that is a lot of re-training. SP reimbursment should take that into account - if I had BC V and have race X BS V, then I should get race X BC V.
Edit: also, :ccp:
This or some version of this {BC V + Cruiser V} should be 100% the way to go.
However, I understand that CCP may balk at giving everyone an effective 8 million free SP (i.e. I train BC V and the effective Cruiser V now -> I get all four racial skills down the road). So what I suggest is a further rebalancing of the rank of the effective ship skills.
Currently, BCs are a Rank 6 skill (1.56m SP) and cruisers are Rank 5 (1.28m). To fly all cruisers and BCs perfectly thus costs 6.68m SP. But what if we lower the requirements?
Cruisers = Rank 3 (768k SP) Racial BCs = Rank 4 (1024k SP)
To fly everything perfectly would now take just over 7m SP, meaning the difference is just over a week of training. Of course, CCP could always credit us that little bit extra if they like
Under this system, the change would take place as follows:
1)Refund everyone the difference for every cruiser skill. Your old Amarr Cruiser V skill would change to Rank 3 and you'd get 512k free SP in the bargain;
2)Delete the old BC skill; your BC V is worth 1.56m free SP;
3)Implement the new racial BC skills at 1024k each.
Example: I currently have Amarr Cruiser V, Caldari Cruiser V and BC IV. The change gives me 1m free SP from the lowered rank of the cruisers + 271k SP from the deleted BC skill. I could then spend 1.024m SP on a single Racial BC V and have 271k left over, spend 450k SP on two BC IVs and have about 800k left over, or go do something else - it's my call.
Most people would be slightly better off than they are now while heavy crosstrainers would be slightly worse off, but no one would be badly nerfed like many cruiser specialists would be under the current proposal.
Destroyer specialists are a little tougher because frigates are Rank 1 and can't be lowered further, but not hugely so. If CCP refunds the destroyer skill at rank 2, then makes the new racial destroyer skill rank 1, 4 race crosstrainers would be out 3 weeks of training time, which isn't horrific. Ideally, CCP would refund the existing destroyer skill as if it were rank 3, saving us a bit of pain, but I'd be willing to live without that.
--
Under this plan, the most free SP anyone could get is just over 4 million. These players would then have to retrain about 8m skillpoints' worth of ships - again, bad but not horrific. Anyone that specialized in 1 or 2 races, though, would actually be better off.
The price would be lowering the time it takes to fly a t1 cruiser. I submit that this is not a huge loss for Eve Online.
please upvote if you like this, tia |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 72 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |