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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
40
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:38:00 -
[121] - Quote
ITTigerClawIK wrote:first thing i thought after reading about the skill changes was "all those guys in null sec will be fighting tooth and nail in frigates cause barely anyone will have trained destroyers" and on another note of that at least add another 1 or 2 destroyers to actualy make that class worth even moving into after frigate.
oh yeah! Add some more destroyer types! |
Velicitia
Open Designs
741
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:39:00 -
[122] - Quote
drdxie wrote:hell, I even trained for T2 torps for use on the naga.
You sure you're playing the same game as the rest of us?
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Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
408
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:39:00 -
[123] - Quote
Oh hey, CCP looking to rebalance ships? This is my fort+¬, prom4csm CSM Candidate & PVP Samurai RE-ELECT PROM4CSM7 www.promsrage.com |
Grady Eltoren
Aviation Professionals for EVE
32
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:39:00 -
[124] - Quote
I LIKE THIS DEV BLOG.
One of my FIRST thoughts when I started playing EVE years ago was that the ship progression should be exactly this way. I could not understand why it wasn't set deeper to have to train racial battlecruiser.
IN RE: to all the whiners (I.e. Liang etc etc) - You people lobby all the time for EVE to be tougher and crueler. Well then don't B%#$@ when things are set straight.
Furthermore, CCP is going to help by letting us reallocate. Like Trebor said, you should be PRAISING CCP for the work they are putting in to REFRESH EVE.
.....
Posting in what is sure to be an EPIC whiners thread.
Grady
P.S. as I type this the pages have jumped from 4-6 in two minutes - WOAH....er rather....WAH :) |
Fird
SH Brotherhood
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
Here's a thought. Scrap the idea, think of something less ********. You idiots are running this game into the ground already.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
Well, I can't criticize you for a lack of ambition...
1) Do not refund/reimburse SP in destroyers and battlecruisers, please. Transfer the SP into all four of the racial skills, so that we aren't stuck spending three months making ourselves able to fly the ships we currently can. I love me some BCs/CSes, and I'll be pissed if I spend months unable to fly them.
2) If you're sticking destroyers in the main line of ships, and not as an optional extra, then they need to be less crap. This had better come with a serious buff, particularly to their missioning capabilities.
3) Tiers are only a problem if they're done badly. For example, battleship tiering is done quite well, and doesn't need to be changed. But yes, frigate/cruiser tiering needs an overhaul.
4) I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with "ship lines". It sounds like you're thinking the right way, but I don't know what actual gameplay changes will result. Is this just a replacement for the tier system, or are you going to use it as a reason to add a bunch of new ships? |
ReptilesBlade
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
7
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:40:00 -
[127] - Quote
I LOVE it! |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
919
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:41:00 -
[128] - Quote
Shin Dari wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded. -Liang There is a problem with that, I and many others don't want the extra skill points. I might go with that option if CCP would also allow us to trim skills away so that we don't get too many skill points.
I'm well beyond giving a **** what my total SP count is. I simply refuse to have things taken away from me. Fortunately, CCP Soundwave agrees with me.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Skye Aurorae
No Bull Ships
195
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:41:00 -
[129] - Quote
Wow - what a devblog.
I predict this has the potential to become one of the biggest threadnaughts ever!
:: gets popcorn ::
I support this process and discussion, but the Devs will have to be very proactive here discussing with the players, since these changes reach into so many parts of the game. Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21, so.. Vote for Scott Manley / Skye Aurorae for CSM 7 An Expert in Dealing with Childish Arguments Over Toys. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68506 |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
263
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:42:00 -
[130] - Quote
Great blog! Looking forward to some details on the actual stat changes. |
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SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries Late Night Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
Tread lightly here, CCP - while its all logical, you have the ability to really destroy and enrage a lot of your bread 'n butter players - us old people don't like being screwed with. |
SamTheTrader
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:42:00 -
[132] - Quote
next time put even larger images (in terms of filesize) into the page of the blog. don't bother with things like preview images |
Cronus Zontanos
Twin Paradox 0rizen Nation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:42:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ugh. I love this game but you whining people really get on my nerves. Everyone complains about FiS content and balance, CCP moves to make sweeping balance changes that actually make sense, and everyone complains that it's too much change. You people are impossible. |
killer139139
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
Quote:ISD BH Bunnykore > Honestly skills that take a month to train just feel like something to force people to stay interested and PAYING for the game. |
Arline Kley
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:43:00 -
[135] - Quote
I'm surprised they had to wiki-link an Oil Platform. |
yoyaz
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:43:00 -
[136] - Quote
Fird wrote:Here's a thought. Scrap the idea, think of something less ********. You idiots are running this game into the ground already.
2nd |
ReptilesBlade
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
7
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
Herschel Yamamoto wrote:
4) I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with "ship lines". It sounds like you're thinking the right way, but I don't know what actual gameplay changes will result. Is this just a replacement for the tier system, or are you going to use it as a reason to add a bunch of new ships?
I took it to mean they are going to use it to add a lot of new ships.
A lot of ships. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
292
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:44:00 -
[138] - Quote
your huge-ass images have murdered my browser to death, fix this please jesus christ. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
548
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
I like the direction. Curious how bumpy the road will be getting there.
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Prime FLux
The Rising Stars The Volition Cult
26
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:44:00 -
[140] - Quote
*posting in epic threadnought*
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David Rivard
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:45:00 -
[141] - Quote
And here I was worried they were getting back on the right track. Thank god the incompetent CCP I know and love is back.
For the love of christ, this is a terrible, terrible idea. Don't you dare take away the ability to train generic battlecruisers/destroyers. That's a ray of hope for the new player that they wont be spending months in training hell just to be able to play with the big boys and their cookie cutter fleets. |
Ethino
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:45:00 -
[142] - Quote
So you're basicly telling me that i just wasted 26days to train for a Thanatos for NOTHING? |
YouShouldntEatIt
Matte Gray
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:46:00 -
[143] - Quote
Anja Talis wrote:YouShouldntEatIt wrote: The only thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is to fly a battlecruiser (essentially a bigger cruiser) requires the cruiser skill. so why shouldn't a recon (essentially a bigger covert op) require covert op skills?
Of course, this is just how I view the ship progression in eve. Maybe it's because I grew up with the current system >.>
Yeah. Ignoring the class size tiers, the current system did make sense. Doesn't mean it should stay that way though.
Very true. I just like the way they build off eachother. It makes you feel like you're specializing more if you have a few prereqs related to the ship you wanna fly, rather than a newb saying "Oh I want to fly a bigger covop ship, lemme just train this one skill to level 1 and voila!"
I realize they may be trying to make the game "easier" for new people, they seem to be destroying the immersion that I've grown fond of. |
Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:46:00 -
[144] - Quote
Shin Dari wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
It goes far beyond simply unappealing. It is simply not practical. We've got dozens of battlecruisers in the wormhole we live in and potentially nobody would even be able to fly them for months. The best solution is not to reimburse BC/Destroyer SP but to give everyone the racial skills at the level they have them trained when the books are seeded. -Liang There is a problem with that, I and many others don't want the extra skill points. I might go with that option if CCP would also allow us to trim skills away so that we don't get too many skill points.
I have, personally dozens of drakes hurricanes talos and oracles that i use on a daily basis. my skillset is made around it.
if they reset BC skills alone, that would mean: Give me ALL my heavy missile sp back (not gonna use it cause i wont train drake to 5) Give me Sige warfare, and adv 5 back (not gonna use it cause i'm not gonna train vulture to 5) Give me Large Hybrid sp back, i'm not training in to a Talos anymore Give me Caldari Carrier 5 sp back ( i have both caldari and amarr carrier ) Give me Caldari BS lvl 5 sp back ( read above) Give me Capital Shield Transport bacp Give me Caldari Dreadnought sp back Give me Citadel Torpedo sp back Give me Citadel Cruise missle sp back
and i can keep going
all these will no longer be useable with the implemention of "racial bc required for larger ships"
this is why this is ********. |
Nistrak
Balanced Unity Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
CCP, I hope you figure out the skill reimbursement in a way, that the players can fly every ship they can fly at the moment. Fore example : If a player has BC V today, giving the players as much skill points as needed to train all racial BC to V.
It suggest to give players the necessery skills to train the ships they can actually fly. For example, if a player has Amarr and caldari cruiser at III and BC V. The Amarr and Caldari BC skill at 0 + skillpoints to train all four BC to V |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
93
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
Rebalancing ships and re-assigning skills seem to be two separate issues and could be dealt with separately.
There is a lot of pretty pictures and I like to think I understand EVE but after reading the OP I am left wondering and that makes me nervous.
My skill trainings have been teamed up with remaps and year-long training queues. If I find that I need to remap and train ship skills again I will not be very happy at all. I better still be able to fly the ships that I already fly at the same competency levels.
Edit: And if you are going to have skills like Racial Destroyer, then they should be WAY faster to train than they currently are. Accelerated learning curves would be appealing to new players.
Finding a role for the useless ships in the game is a good thing and I am not going to stand in the way of ANY progress that goes into this. I would rather have constant (monthly) buffs and eventually nerfs every patch than the stagnant desert that is the EVE ship universe. |
Evanga
Trust Doesn't Rust Ineluctable.
7
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:47:00 -
[147] - Quote
ok ....
first, you made me log on to this stinking ****** forums... second, what the freaky deaky feck is wrong with you guys.
"Nothing is written in stone yet..." UP YOURS!
I guess you will push it through anywayz.
-2 paying accounts. |
JudgeBob
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
32
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:47:00 -
[148] - Quote
What jumped out at me in a big way was that moving from the tier system to a role system seems to dump some sand out of the sandbox
Yes, as it is now under the tier system, some ships are utilized more than others, and many have come to be used mostly in specific roles as players have discovered how to use them most effectively. That's what the sandbox is all about! So why care if some roles or ships are less utilized? People will do what they want and part of the pleasure for many is exploring ship role potential
By removing the more generic tier system and replacing it with structured roles, it may remove a lot of the open sandbox feel
The other red flag that I'm sure will get major attention is tinkering with skills progression. We all know that everybody is sensitive to changing skills that have already been trained. The SP reimbursement method for removing a skill from the game seems a good way to handle it, but I'm unclear exactly how the nested skill situation works out when a new skill is added and becomes a prerequisite for a skill already trained
If I have BS5 and a new racial BC4 becomes required to train BS, does this mean I automatically get BC4 trained? The way I understood the plan, generic BC will go away and be replaced with 4 racial BC skills, each required to be trained up to some level as a requirement to train BS. I'm unclear how this works if I've already trained BS. |
Razesdarked
Onyx Brotherhood
8
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:47:00 -
[149] - Quote
This whole skill rebalancing seems to made under the pretense that all races have ships to fit every role. Which is not only wrong, but would be destructive to gameplay Races have different focuses, strengths and weaknesses. By increasing time to cross-train different races, you are by extention limiting peoples options for fitting into the situation at hand.
This also seems very limiting on new players getting into null-sec fleets. I spent a good month to be able to fly the races needed in our fleet doctrines, and your proposed change would make my character semi useless in fleets for up to 1/6 of a year. Im not sure where this is supposed to help the game I would not enjoy spending 2+ months waiting to get in on the action I stepped into 0.0 for.
By going away from the tier based system and into a more role-based focus you would either have t A) Rebalance all ships so that all races have one ship or more that fits every role you wish to have. Thus making all ships less distinctive to make the pain for cross-training tolerable again in exchange for simpler gameplay where you have less options on customizing your fleet to any real advantage B) Keep the ship/race diversity and basicly shoehorn players into one shiptype/role or force them to cross-train to be able to experience the diverse gameplay or be useful in groups
The double edged nature of group gameplay is that when it is working, its more fun, but when something goes wrong for 1, it can ruin the day for the rest of the group. The more optimal approach to skilltraining would be making it EASIER to fly a new (T1) ship type or race by lowering skill requirements to advance from 4 to 3. To get everyone where they want to be faster, and let their skills train when they are flying that ship and getting better at using it. Instead of some arbitary counter reaching zero so you can go out and actually start playing
P.S. CCP ... Y.. Somethng!! wrote Attack vessels: Made for hit and run assault, or flanking opportunities. Have great damage and mobility, but average defense. Similar in role with cavalry. EVE examples: Armageddon, Megathron, Tempest, Oracle, Thorax, Hurricane,[b] Dominix, Myrmidon.[/b
When has the Dominix and Myrmidon have been known for their speed or DPS? In fact, when talking about Gallente. I have alot of questions about gallente * Why does the T2 Drone Cruiser(Ishtar) have 125 in bandwidth while the T2 Drone Battlecruiser(Eos) has 75 * Why does the Drone boats have to sacrifice most of its DPS to be able to do Electronic warfare drones, while any other race drops alot less with equally as effective ECM drones The Myrmidon does most of its DPS from Drones, while the Hurricane can drop the same ammount of Hornet ECM drones, and be equally as efficient. * Why does blasters require you to be so up close, but none of their ships really have the ability to dictate range The already pretty awesome Loki gets a web bonus, despite its ability to hit with autocannons at range. While the Proteus who needs to be close are unable to get there as easy
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Kalestra Cable
Faust Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:47:00 -
[150] - Quote
Great blog and good stuff.
Looking forward to more details |
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