Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 72 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
951
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:47:00 -
[151] - Quote
All of this sounds awesome, completely and utter awesome. The destroyer and BC thing makes sense to me and I assume the reimbursement will go over fine.
Being able to use the lower teir ships for specific purposes and seeing that possibility for new ships is AWESOME.
Personally I think the support ships should have high mobility to counter act their low defense.
Also, have a look at the turret and missile systems, the way they work now would still lend itself to making BCs the back bone of fleets and not the BSes since BCs using medium guns make them the perfect balance between BS DPS/tank and cruiser mobility. They still should have that balance but BSes should still be better/viable. The Drake is a Lie |
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:48:00 -
[152] - Quote
oh boy here we go. |
Andrea Griffin
167
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:48:00 -
[153] - Quote
WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL CCP?
Seriously though - killing the tier system is something the player base has wanted for YEARS now, and finally it's on the horizon. I'm very excited at what this means for the future of Eve. People wanted new ships? Well, something like this will give us a dozen ships (or more) per race all at once.
This will keep PvP interesting for a long time to come. GÖÑ CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
5n4keyes
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:48:00 -
[154] - Quote
Does this mean that we could in the future see more destroyers? |
Akelorian
FinFleet Raiden.
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:48:00 -
[155] - Quote
CCP Soundwave, nerfing eve for the greater goon, yet another change that aids his old alliance in eve, favourtism? I think so way to go!
Edit: Before Denial of aiding his old alliance/Goons defending soundwave |
|
CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
1866
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:48:00 -
[156] - Quote
Palovana wrote:Those are some HUGE-ASS images, and trust me, I know huge ass.
The image size issue has been resolved. Sorry about that!
CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |
|
Di Mulle
42
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:49:00 -
[157] - Quote
A proper SP reimbursement will be the huge headache by itself. But lets not forget the somehow smaller but still real annoyance. Skillbooks.
If I will be reimbursed not with skills I will need to fly the same ships I can now, but just with a pile of free SP, I still will need to acquire new skillbooks. Even if reimbursed with ISK, you still need to get them from somewhere they are seeded. For a many that may become a serious annoyance - wormholes, again. I guess it will be "not appealing" as well.
In general, no matter how much work will be put to prepare this process, it will still cause a big inconvenience for many, and will be perceived even as a bigger. As always. I think, a simple "streamlining of skills" is not worth it at all. A change for a sake of change. Potential better ship balancing, however, is. I just want to ask if CCP realizes that putting that inconvenience onto players bounds them to that big commitment of a much better balancing. I don't want to suffer through this process only to see a balancing task forgotten again half-done.
CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC 0ccupational Hazzard
50
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:50:00 -
[158] - Quote
oh fuking great.
I have minnie cruiser and gallente cruiser 5, bc 5 and destroyer 5. Obviously not including I will lose use of tornado or talos, my carrier/dreads...complete fukin joke.
I fly the astarte, the sleipner, all of the dictors.
So basically your are going to reimburse BC 5 skillpoints and then I have to choose one of them.
get fuked, shower of ****.
Heres an idea, fix bots, fix FW, nerf the drake, fix drones, make missions less boring, make 0.0 less *****, fix ecm and ecm drones, actually finish WiS, nerf titans, nerf supercarriers, fix the eagle, fix the eos, fix info links, nerf off grid t3's, fix blops jump range/fuel usage.
FIX **** THAT MATTERS Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
agram tabris
Immortal Legion Pure Madness.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:50:00 -
[159] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
I understand the sentiment of wanting to streamline the skill trees, but if you're going to remove the generic Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills, for those of us who have trained both of them to 5, if we don't get *all four* of the racial skills reimbursed all the way to 5, you are going to have a very, very large and angry mob on your hands.
this. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:51:00 -
[160] - Quote
For a new player:
Drake: 3 skills (current scheme) vs 4 skills (new scheme) - 33% increase in skills. +Hurricane: 5 skills vs 8 skills - 60% increase in skills required. +Harbringer: 7 skills vs 12 skills - 71% increase in skills required. +Myrmidon: 9 skills vs 16 skills - 78% increase in skills required!
Effectively, you're almost doubling the amount of skills a new player will have to train in order to crosstrain.
Additionally, you're removing one of the big incentives for crosstraining, namely if I train up two skills, I get access to a whole new range of ships for free! Training racial frigate and cruiser, two skills that can be trained in a short amount of time, would give a new player access to battlecruiser at whatever level they had battlecruisers trained to before.
Under this scheme, crosstraining for another race instead becomes a chore.
This is inherently new player UNFRIENDLY, as well as being excessively annoying for veteran players. |
|
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:52:00 -
[161] - Quote
This will be an incredible change if it falls together correctly. It will fundamentally alter pretty much everything about flying in the game, and that is a huge risk that I'm glad the Devs are willing to take. A more logical ship progression is badly needed, and I'm stoked about the possibility of old ship types getting new uses, and limiting out the roles of various hulls so that their contemporaries get a chance to do their job.
Completely understand all the rage about crosstraining, but I think they've got the point. Save your tears for when they come up with an actual solution for the reimbursement, judge it then.
This change opens up a lot of doors for the game, and the possibility of new ships (!!!!!!!!), which I think we can all agree is a Good ThingGäó. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
805
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:52:00 -
[162] - Quote
The amount of rage in this thread is equally proportional to those that havent read all the posts before theirs
The simlpest way of handling this would be to refuns FOUR times the SP removed from a pilot to instantly pay for the 4 new racial variants of destroyers and Battlecruisers.
I know this would be my prefered choice as i fly all 4 racial variants
|
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3377
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:52:00 -
[163] - Quote
About time, honestly one of those things that should have been done AGES ago.
And just when I thought I got all the sub caps trained up to max.
|
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Initiative Mercenaries
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:52:00 -
[164] - Quote
I have to say im happy that you are looking into this. I even think the ideas you propose are fine. HOWEVER!
For those of us who have trained dessy 5 and Battlecruiser 5 - if you do make skills for each race you MUST give us all racial skills to 5. We have trained that and its not our fault you are changing skills.
If someone had dessy 3 and bc 4 for instance give them that level of skill for each race. Its not perfect I know but there is no way in hell im training bc 5 again for every race. Training it once for commandships was **** enough.
You want to **** people off and lose players then go ahead. Otherwise give us the same skill level in each racial ship should you go ahead with this plan.
A little bit of isk and skillpoint reimbursement is NOT enough.
Just warning you now as I know there is heated disscussion on this topic. |
AdamiaMaxima
4U Services Inc. 4U Holdings Inc
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:52:00 -
[165] - Quote
Yeah, okay....
NO
-Adamia You cant outrun death forever, but you sure can make the people trying to kill you work for it.-á |
Mallikanth
L V B Industries
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:53:00 -
[166] - Quote
I like the ideas. I like the plan. I like that no-one will end up with ships they can no longer fly. I like that you're asking the players (and the CSM?) and taking on board what people say.
Oh, yes. And I like it even though the transition is going to be difficult (To engineer for the Devs and to experience by the players).
Believe in what they do, not what they say.
|
Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
108
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:53:00 -
[167] - Quote
Evanga wrote:ok ....
first, you made me log on to this stinking ****** forums... second, what the freaky deaky feck is wrong with you guys.
"Nothing is written in stone yet..." UP YOURS!
I guess you will push it through anywayz.
-2 paying accounts.
The Rage is strong with this one... |
Seismic Stan
54
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:53:00 -
[168] - Quote
I came to complain about something as I understand that's what we're meant to do on these forums, but I can't quite get my head around the implications on these changes at the moment so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Seriously though, it sounds exciting and I'm loving those ship flow charts. However, if you're removing tiers, what do the numbers within each size class at the top represent? Blogger on Freebooted. Co-Creator of Tech4 podcast and website. Author of Incarna: The Text Adventure. |
Mehashi 'Kho
Spiritus Draconis
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:54:00 -
[169] - Quote
This is terrible.
This will really mess with the new player progression. You are going to make it more prohibitive for a developing player to try out different ship styles and force more time intensive specialisation, something that as a younger player this game has way too much of already, to a point that it puts some people off trying new ships or parts of the game. And putting people into caps even quicker?
Madness. Horrible idea. Couldn''t be more opposed to this. |
Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
108
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:54:00 -
[170] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:I have to say im happy that you are looking into this. I even think the ideas you propose are fine. HOWEVER!
For those of us who have trained dessy 5 and Battlecruiser 5 - if you do make skills for each race you MUST give us all racial skills to 5. We have trained that and its not our fault you are changing skills.
If someone had dessy 3 and bc 4 for instance give them that level of skill for each race. Its not perfect I know but there is no way in hell im training bc 5 again for every race. Training it once for commandships was **** enough.
You want to **** people off and lose players then go ahead. Otherwise give us the same skill level in each racial ship should you go ahead with this plan.
A little bit of isk and skillpoint reimbursement is NOT enough.
Just warning you now as I know there is heated disscussion on this topic.
I'm inclined to agree with this dude, in a slightly softer tone though. |
|
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
229
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:54:00 -
[171] - Quote
Orion GUardian wrote:I can understand where you come from, trying to get Destroyers and Battlecruisers to racial Variants.
BUT: I always thought them not to be "stepping stones" but intermediate classes. Which made totally sense having the skills not racial.
i.e "You know how to fly X Races Cruisers well, the Batlecruisers rely on the same technology and modules but you need to learn how to control larger ships thats why you need Battlecruiser skill as well"
I think it is not at all necessary to make the Battlecruiser skill racial! Having to Train BCs to IV until one can get into a BS or Destroyers to IV till you can get into a Cruiser will slow down alot of newbies trying to get into useful roles above "Tackler" in any fleet.
Blackbird for example was an easy to train for ship, it will be prolonged for about a week now (doesn't sound much, but if you are a newbie that is quite some time!) Especially as it stands today that Destroyers are very rarely used and considered "useless" by alot of people.
Please think it over, I do NOT think the skill line should be changed.
IF you disaggree and really want to change that, I am strongly for a Reimbursement Plan that will not make Crosstrainers like me train 3 additional Rank 6 Skills to V (2-3 Months?) to be able to fly all the ships again that I can now ;) I go with Liang here: If you have BC X give them Racial BC X*4 as reimbursement!
Unless you want to macke the Racial BC/Racial Destroyer skills all Rank 1 so the SP are enough to get them to the past level.
The destroyers are seen as a stepping stone, they're just a heavier frigate to most people. Before the buff they were pretty much useless other than salvage boats. Even after the buff I'm not sure people will bother training all four racial skills for destroyers, same with BC.
Like another poster said, I can see the idea behind wanting to turn these skills into racials but for those of us with BC to 5 it could be a bitter pill to swallow.
Is this a stealthy Drake nerf perhaps? WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Learath
Incendiary Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:54:00 -
[172] - Quote
Huge huge huge change. Overall good, I hope it happens, after *TONS* of testing. |
Lucas Kyu
Shin Hikage Ineluctable.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:55:00 -
[173] - Quote
Removing tiers is a very good and welcome idea. Making useless ships useful again, what's not to like.
The line of bombardment ships seems the short end of the stick though. You might have noticed how useful the Raven is in PVP right now.
But, retroactive skill requirement changes is ******** and UNFAIR. Seriously, don't do that racial bc skill thing. The only reason you've given for that is that it looks better on a spreadsheet. It's not broken as it is now. Keep things fair.
|
Heimdallofasgard
Blazing Celts
109
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:56:00 -
[174] - Quote
Thoughts:
Like they said in the dev blog... it's open for discussion
To be honest I don't think capitals should be made easier to train for, but I DO like that they're opening up this kind of dialogue, it will make things very interesting.
There's way too many under utilised ships in game, this will shake things up and make things interesting, they're also letting us know well in advance of what they're planning so discussions can be had and we can say what we do and do not like about it.
Bad Points: Racial BC + Dessy skills.
Good Points: Reclassification of ships + Effort to try and make redundant ships useful again.
Edit: CCP you might want to fix the images in that blog btw, they've been resized but not compressed so they're taking AGES to render and scrolling from top to bottom just took me about a minute (on Chrome at least) |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
496
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:56:00 -
[175] - Quote
WTS Visio lessons to Ytterbium, 1x PLEX per hour!
I'm glad you guys are looking at tiers :)
The skills changes look interesting for a discussion starter |
Isaac Apylon
Lobster Adoption Agency
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:56:00 -
[176] - Quote
Well, the Tier system disappearing is great, although I'm not sure a role system is quite the best way to go about it. I'm going to have to think about that one. Regardless, I am really looking forward to flying some of the currently 'useless' ships on a regular basis. Some of my favorite hulls are lower tier (and therefore terrible) ships.
The skill system change, though, while logical, is a serious pain in the ass. I trained BC 5 to be able to use ALL the BCs, along with all the required weapon and tank skills. All of that sp is going to be nearly useless for a few months while I retrain all the new BC skills. And God help wormhole residents, you all are just screwed.
|
Jackie Cross
MacGyver Communications
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:56:00 -
[177] - Quote
Heimdallofasgard wrote:Evanga wrote:ok ....
first, you made me log on to this stinking ****** forums... second, what the freaky deaky feck is wrong with you guys.
"Nothing is written in stone yet..." UP YOURS!
I guess you will push it through anywayz.
-2 paying accounts. The Rage is strong with this one... I'm surprised it took that long into the thread before the first "I'm unsubbing /whine" popped up. |
Mister Alt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:57:00 -
[178] - Quote
So the naysayers were right, CCP panics about bending us over ala Incarnia and we get Crucible
Then we shut up and keep paying, they decide to bend us over again. 2/3 of that blog is pure unadulterated bullshit.
I'm all for cruisers and tier 1 BCs becoming actual viable choices instead of "this will get me a fight cos people will laugh at me" but seriously... Leave the crack pipe alone. |
Botrias Pirabus
The Divine Machine
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:57:00 -
[179] - Quote
Read the thread, and love it. Go to it, CCP! |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 18:57:00 -
[180] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:The amount of rage in this thread is equally proportional to those that havent read all the posts before theirs
The simplest way of handling this would be to refund FOUR times the SP removed from a pilot to instantly pay for the 4 new racial variants of destroyers and Battlecruisers.
I know this would be my prefered choice as i fly all 4 racial variants
So you get extra 7 millions skillpoints while person that does not fly battlecuisers gets nothing.
Is that it ?? ( I have BC 5 my self ) |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 .. 72 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |