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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Nomad I
University of Caille Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:58:00 -
[181] - Quote
Lucas Kyu wrote: But, retroactive skill requirement changes is ******** and UNFAIR. Seriously, don't do that racial bc skill thing. The only reason you've given for that is that it looks better on a spreadsheet. It's not broken as it is now. Keep things fair.
/this |
Miwako Teshigawara
Suddenly Failure
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:58:00 -
[182] - Quote
I think the changes to make EVE more self-consistent are awesome. New players make a lot of assumptions like "Tech 2 is always better than Tech 1 or Faction" and are confused when they discover Tech 2 is for specializing the item. These changes make it easier for new players.
Also, refocusing on ship roles is an excellent change. For the longest time I thought "bigger is better" because that's how other MMOs work... the bigger my ship, the more I'll win. After some sit-downs over TeamSpeak with friends, I've realized that even the little ships matter because of their role. It took me way too long to realize that, and I hope these changes keep new players from a similar fate.
Keep up the good work, CCP! |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
153
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:58:00 -
[183] - Quote
Simple, if you have battlecruiser IV today then give all racial battlecruiser IV for the races you have cruiser IV in. |
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:58:00 -
[184] - Quote
So let me get this straight...you are going take people who can fly and have flown ALL battlecruisers perfectly and go...sorry we are gonna nerf you, enjoy retraining everything for another 4 months...oh and you can't fly command ships now either, because you have to train bc skill to V for all the respective races?
and same thing for dictors?
am I right or am i missing something here?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
578
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:59:00 -
[185] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:So let me get this straight...you are going take people who can fly and have flown ALL battlecruisers perfectly and go...sorry we are gonna nerf you, enjoy retraining everything for another 4 months...oh and you can't fly command ships now either, because you have to train bc skill to V for all the respective races?
and same thing for dictors?
am I right or am i missing something here?
You're missing something :) |
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Karlhockey Forte
The Ordo Imperialis KRYSIS.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.06 18:59:00 -
[186] - Quote
Terrible way of handling something that for all intents and purpose isn't currently broken save for the idea of making things in a graph "cleaner."
Please go back to the drawing board and see if there is any other ways of going about this. |
Jackie Cross
MacGyver Communications
4
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:00:00 -
[187] - Quote
SamGromoff wrote:-snip- Currently, BCs are a Rank 6 skill (1.56m SP) and cruisers are Rank 5 (1.28m). To fly all cruisers and BCs perfectly thus costs 6.68m SP. But what if we lower the requirements? Cruisers = Rank 3 (768k SP) Racial BCs = Rank 4 (1024k SP) To fly everything perfectly would now take just over 7m SP, meaning the difference is just over a week of training. Of course, CCP could always credit us that little bit extra if they like -snip-
This tbh. Page 6, at the bottom. |
AetomHaert Mother
Star Frontiers Initiative Mercenaries
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:00:00 -
[188] - Quote
Cronus Zontanos wrote:Ugh. I love this game but you whining people really get on my nerves. Everyone complains about FiS content and balance, CCP moves to make sweeping balance changes that actually make sense, and everyone complains that it's too much change. You people are impossible.
No we are complaining about losing access to ships we have, fly and love, and in some cases (command ships) are very expensive hulls and fits.
I am all about doing away with the tier system, however messing with peoples skillsets is a little bit of a different story.
"But Aetom," you say, "they did away with the learning skills no problem." Yes but those skills didnt really do anything. We are talking about taking away skills that are directly applicable to playing the game. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:00:00 -
[189] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:So let me get this straight...you are going take people who can fly and have flown ALL battlecruisers perfectly and go...sorry we are gonna nerf you, enjoy retraining everything for another 4 months...oh and you can't fly command ships now either, because you have to train bc skill to V for all the respective races?
and same thing for dictors?
am I right or am i missing something here?
For starter you are missing the fact that you already have skillpoints to fill one racial BC so you can fly it from the start. |
Alara IonStorm
1730
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:00:00 -
[190] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL CCP?
Seriously though - killing the tier system is something the player base has wanted for YEARS now, and finally it's on the horizon. I'm very excited at what this means for the future of Eve. People wanted new ships? Well, something like this will give us a dozen ships (or more) per race all at once.
This will keep PvP interesting for a long time to come. GÖÑ Skill stuff aside. This so much!
Have more Hearts.
GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ |
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Mokokan
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:00:00 -
[191] - Quote
The kneejerk reaction is I'm somewhat apprehensive about how this might lead to the nerf of some of my favorite ships, and I could care less about cap ships, but I really see this as a positve step forward, and would love to see how this develops. A number of ships are just plain useless.
The skill point thing? Whatever. Gotta train something. |
Bastaardicious
FinFleet Raiden.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:01:00 -
[192] - Quote
You guys must have really lost common sense this time. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
243
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:01:00 -
[193] - Quote
Easy crosstraining leads to monocultural fleet doctrines.
It's the single biggest reason why people just resort to the Drakes and Hurricanes, and nobody bothers to try anything else.
Limits feed creativity. |
aetherguy881
Malformed Entity
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:01:00 -
[194] - Quote
I really like how you have the full, high-res images only re-sized on that blog... It loves to kill browsers on slower internet connections... |
Riffix
Synergistic Arbitrage
26
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:01:00 -
[195] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
- We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.
You've addressed my (and other's) main concern. As long as I can still fly all the things I can now, I love where this is going. This is a great example of CCP really getting to the heart of things that haven't made sense or were neglected for YEARS.
The only problem with this approach is that to make serious changes, things are gonna get shuffled and people will have to change the way they do some things. Players aren't always happy about that and I can only hope that people don't freak out simply because things change. Just keep these types of changes for the better and things should be fine |
Papa Boats
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:02:00 -
[196] - Quote
Bitter vet checking in. I am really annoyed about having to retrain destroyer and BC for 3 races to have them all maxed again. I am at 90mil+ SP and currently have every T1 and T2 ship available to me. I have all T2 weapons at my disposal. I like it this way as I am able to use the very best ships and weapons whenever I need them. I worked hard for this and feel that this would negativly impact the few players who hate supercaps online the way I do.
As I feel what should happen if the racial destroyers and BC if it goes through should be. SP and cost of SB should go back into the pilots account. Also all SP and costs for command ships and interdictors should go back to the pilot. Furthermore any further skills and capital ships that require these ships should be dropped.
I say this for a couple reasons. I will not retrain 4 racial destroyers just so I can fly an interdictor thats outperformed by a HIC which I do not need to train for to have the better and stronger ship. Also for command ships why would I need this skill as the ships do not always match up. I am in the CFC meaning the CMD ship I need is either the cald or minm ships. While the capital ships I fly are the Thanny and the Moros. It is going to make it extremly difficult and add lots of time to getting me into my capital ships if these changes are not well thought out. |
Prioleau
Four Bird LTD.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:02:00 -
[197] - Quote
Roime wrote:Easy crosstraining leads to monocultural fleet doctrines.
It's the single biggest reason why people just resort to the Drakes and Hurricanes, and nobody bothers to try anything else.
Limits feed creativity.
Spot on! |
Laura Dexx
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:02:00 -
[198] - Quote
That's rather saucy and all, but is this just pure ******* punishment for those who can fly all racial destroyers and battlecruisers? Are you really going to force us to train three additional racial skills just to fly the ships we used to fly? This won't fly and you know it. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
20
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:03:00 -
[199] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. EDIT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT:
- New destroyer and battlecruiser skills would be same rank than existing ones
- We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.
That last part isn't quite true, unless you quadruple the skillpoints you return to us for Destroyers and Battlecruisers. Since with Battlecruisers IV (and the related sub-skills) I can fly every battlecruiser in the game, but after this proposed change, I'll only have the skillpoints to pick one Battlecruiser (e.g. Gallente).
Instead, you should replace the existing Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills that people have into their new components. So someone with Destroyers V would now get Amarr Destroyers V, Caldari Destroyers V, Gallente Destroyers V, and Minmatar Destroyers V. That way those who've invested in this skill, and the sub-skills, are not now suddenly locked out of the ship(s) they have. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp
3
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:03:00 -
[200] - Quote
Heimdallofasgard wrote: To be honest I don't think capitals should be made easier to train for, but I DO like that they're opening up this kind of dialogue, it will make things very interesting.
Not so sure that's a good thing myself, maybe that one should be left alone. Admittedly there are plenty of other skills required to fly caps effectively but allowing pilots to get into them with BS4 may well lead to a lot of comedy kill mails and whines and we have enough of that right now. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
598
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:04:00 -
[201] - Quote
Papa Boats wrote:Bitter vet checking in. I am really annoyed about having to retrain destroyer and BC for 3 races to have them all maxed again. I am at 90mil+ SP and currently have every T1 and T2 ship available to me. I have all T2 weapons at my disposal. I like it this way as I am able to use the very best ships and weapons whenever I need them. I worked hard for this and feel that this would negativly impact the few players who hate supercaps online the way I do.
As I feel what should happen if the racial destroyers and BC if it goes through should be. SP and cost of SB should go back into the pilots account. Also all SP and costs for command ships and interdictors should go back to the pilot. Furthermore any further skills and capital ships that require these ships should be dropped.
I say this for a couple reasons. I will not retrain 4 racial destroyers just so I can fly an interdictor thats outperformed by a HIC which I do not need to train for to have the better and stronger ship. Also for command ships why would I need this skill as the ships do not always match up. I am in the CFC meaning the CMD ship I need is either the cald or minm ships. While the capital ships I fly are the Thanny and the Moros. It is going to make it extremly difficult and add lots of time to getting me into my capital ships if these changes are not well thought out.
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up. |
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
293
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:04:00 -
[202] - Quote
Isn't it our job to define roles for particular ships, not yours? ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
20
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
Your image links (at least some of them), they are broken. e.g. the new Gallente tier points to http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Gallenteshiptree2.jpghttp:/content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Gallenteshiptree2.jpg (notice the double-URL), but should point to http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Gallenteshiptree2.jpg. |
Harotak
Malicious Destruction War Against the Manifest
15
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:04:00 -
[204] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tech 2 philosophy is all about specializing into a specific hull and role, thus, requiring players to train for Assault Ships, then Heavy Assault Ships when aiming for Field Command Ships, is quite redundant.
If T2 is about specializing in a specific role, can we get T2 turret spec skills to not require the smaller gun size spec skills as prerequisites? |
Dansel
Revenge of the Noobs Mortal Destruction
1
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:05:00 -
[205] - Quote
There are two part of this blog to me: a good one and a not so good (but with promise) one.
The good part would be the removing of tiers, thank you for that. Tiers is a stupid system and needs to be changed, and the change you propose seem good, although it will make, well, all(?) fits obsolete and in the need of a remake but I think that might be good as well.
Now what is the not so good part is the skill remake. It will make the life of a newbie tenfold (fourfold to be more precis) worse. In order to become valuable to a fleet in the role of say... logi you'll need to train at least two racial cruisers and two logis to 5. and for each new shipclass you wish to fly you need to train between twice and four times as much SP in order to do so. This will even further widen the crack between new and old players. And depending on what kind of reimbursement you'll give out it might be even worse.
It will also make it way harder for new players to try new ships and adapt to new corps. It will also mean a new player wanting to crosstrain will have to spend a lot more time doing so. Now I am not against making it harder to crosstrain, but screwing over newbies are rarely a good thing to do.
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Zaxix
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
41
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:06:00 -
[206] - Quote
Since 99% of all comments are about SP reimbursement, it sounds like your core idea is getting indirect approval.
As to BS V for capital ships, will you also be lowering the Racial Industrial V requirement for freighters? Or any of the level V skill requirements for jump freighters? Looking at the progressions in the dev blog (and not having evemon at work), I'm not clear on whether training times and SP amounts for freighters/jump freighters in general will be going up, down, or staying the same. While it may have always been the case, I was surprised to see dreads took less time to get into than a jump freighter--that seemed odd to me.
What about the jump freighter skill? It's not race specific. Will you be altering that line as well? Can you afford to reimburse me for some SERIOUS skill point totals? On what basis would those points be awarded? The current discussion seems to be "I can fly all races now, so I should get skill points for all of them when the time comes." Well, I can fly all jump freighters now... Red Frog--Hisec Courier Black Frog--Losec/Nosec Courier
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Ilany
Nightingale Enterprises
13
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:06:00 -
[207] - Quote
Extending the ship specialisation sounds great - there are sooo many classes that never get used because the PvP system has evolved haphazardly over the years. However, to be effective any change also needs to review:
a) Environments: Re-profiling ships won't help if the environments in which PvP takes place are not changed.
b) Counters: more rock/paper/scissors and less blob-wins-all.
Combat in EVE lacks something - generally the blob wins regardless of position or composition. Some smaller-scale fights are more interesting because the FC can make better use of specialist ships. I have a video that R&K released of a wormhole battle where the fleet positioning, the tenacity of the FC and the skill of specialised pilots beat a much larger fleet. That kind of leads into environments - space is a bit bland because physics has no role in EVE (except in wormholes). For example acceleration should be more difficult close to a planet because it has a gravity field - this should favour the "artillery" ships over the "assault" ships described in the blogs. |
Bastaardicious
FinFleet Raiden.
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:06:00 -
[208] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all. As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change. EDIT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT:
- New destroyer and battlecruiser skills would be same rank than existing ones
- We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.
That last part isn't quite true, unless you quadruple the skillpoints you return to us for Destroyers and Battlecruisers. Since with Battlecruisers IV (and the related sub-skills) I can fly every battlecruiser in the game, but after this proposed change, I'll only have the skillpoints to pick one Battlecruiser (e.g. Gallente). Instead, you should replace the existing Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills that people have into their new components. So someone with Destroyers V would now get Amarr Destroyers V, Caldari Destroyers V, Gallente Destroyers V, and Minmatar Destroyers V. That way those who've invested in this skill, and the sub-skills, are not now suddenly locked out of the ship(s) they have.
+1
So now we exchange 1.5m SP in Battlecruisers V for 6m in racial BC's ... will you give me 5m SP for free CCP ?
Thanks.
And what will happen to supercapital pilots? be bumped out of their ship for not having required skills? |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
805
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:06:00 -
[209] - Quote
FYI - in the future when you make a 'ship tree', nobody cares about the ships manufacturer.
Unless this has some real meaning for the future, remove it, they are T2 ships.
Having three differently colored borders for T2 ships is unnecessary.
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Littlefat46
Viperfleet Inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
0
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:06:00 -
[210] - Quote
I donot like what I see hope not to los skill points and train skills again to fly that ship again |
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