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Mukun
The Shadow Plague BLACK-MARK
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 02:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
have u considered to give all self-rep shps ( hyperion, maelstrom, brutix etc ) an extra bonus like "recive x% more rep amount from remote repair modules " ? self-rep bonus is a huge waste in a fleet with logi ships now, and those ships can not get any more tank like ships with armor / shield resistance in large fleet. it is not that fair. hope u ccp guys can think about it |
Hua Gozen
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 02:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
This just in: Not all ships are designed to be optimal in fleets. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2012.03.07 07:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ships with active tank bonuses are geared toward smaller engagements, where active tanking is somewhat viable.
Interestingly, though, the amount of dps able to be repped by an active bonused ship and a resist bonused ship is very similar. If I recall correctly, the difference between an active abaddon and hyperion is something like 3% (in favor of they hype), given a similar resist configuration. |
Aethlyn
98
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Posted - 2012.03.07 10:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
You just need a different logistics approach for these ships, if you'd like to use or profit from the defensive bonus (i.e. use energy transfer instead or shield transfer or remote repairers). I know it's sub optimal with neutralizers and vampires around, but it's simply their counter. Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
20
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Posted - 2012.03.07 11:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hua Gozen wrote:This just in: Not all ships are designed to be optimal in fleets.
the point is a a ship with a +5% resistance per lev and its designed to passive tank and get all the pros of it its equally effective as a +rep at active tanking
in comparison a +rep ship get only half a bonus compared to a +res ship
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Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
201
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeah it turns out that the ships with resist bonuses benefit from both passive/local tank and RR but meh, that's just how it fell.
IF there were even to be an additional rep bonus on those ships it would be nice to see something like 5% bonus per level to overloaded repper bonus. So you could get even more local tank for a short time when overloading.
The thermodynamics mechanic should stop this being too OP.
Just sayin' Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttp://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=433 Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
65
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Posted - 2012.03.07 12:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I dont think this is true of most ships, one ship I feel should be changed to a resist bonus is the Claymore, as its designed to operate in large fleets. |
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2012.03.07 13:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
^This, if we are ever to see a CS on a battlefield one day. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
911
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Posted - 2012.03.07 13:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:While I dont think this is true of most ships, one ship I feel should be changed to a resist bonus is the Claymore, as its designed to operate in large fleets.
Actually, I'm pretty sure the Claymore is designed to be more of a small gang boosting ship (same as the Scimitar is for Logi). In which case, the rep amount bonus makes perfect sense. |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
65
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Posted - 2012.03.07 13:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well yes, and no, if you have a claymore in gang its pretty much an assurity you have at least two Scimitars (Which are, as your probably know, used in most shield gangs, both small and large) in which case a resist bonus would be far more helpful, in fact to be honest, I have never really seen a Claymore with an active tank, because any gang that warrants one is generally too large for an active tank to work anyhow. |
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
228
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Posted - 2012.03.07 14:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
5% resistance bonuses give the same amount of active tank bonus as 7.5% repair amount. This is why resistance bonused ships can be active tanked just as well as the active tanked bonused ones. For proof, check the harpy vs hawk. The harpy has a 25% resistance bonus while the hawk has a 37.5% shield boost amount bonus. It works out to the same active tank for both ships using identical fits, the harpy however has about 25% more buffer due to the higher resists. That's not to say the hawk is bad, I actually like it better than the harpy (extra midslot).
In any case, I agree that something needs to be changed but I don't think an RR amount bonus is appropriate. As said, not everything needs to be optimized for fleets. I think a simple buff to the active repair amount bonus would be sufficient. Perhaps making it 10-15% per level instead of 7.5%. The idea behind such a change is active tank should be absolutely superior to buffer in 1v1 or 2v2 without having to resort to implants, links and drugs. With those items, I think it should be viable small gangs of up to around 5-8 vs the same.
Alternatively, it could be a 7.5% repair amount and cap usage reduction per level. Such reduced cap usage would not inheritable increase their active tanking ability, but would make it a little less vulnerable to neuting. Neuts would still remain the primary counter to it, it would just take a little more. So their wouldn't be any improvement in small gang ability, but it would be a little more survivable 1v1 or 2v2.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7 |
Luba Cibre
60
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Posted - 2012.03.07 14:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away. |
Mukun
The Shadow Plague BLACK-MARK
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 15:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Luba Cibre wrote:An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away.
hellcats can have more than 150k EHP |
Luba Cibre
60
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Posted - 2012.03.07 15:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mukun wrote:Luba Cibre wrote:An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away. hellcats can have more than 150k EHP Thats why they're hellcats. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
156
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Posted - 2012.03.07 15:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Brotha Umad wrote:^This, if we are ever to see a CS on a battlefield one day.
What? Claymores, Vultures and the similar ones for armor fleets are used every day in battle. Sure quite often they sit in POSes and/or safe spots but far from always. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
43
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Posted - 2012.03.07 16:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
some bonuses are better than others. active rep bonuses are entirely inferior to resistance bonuses. This is well understood, not some hidden weakness. There's nothing wrong with ignoring active rep bonuses if it means you'll get better performance by doing so for the role you intend for the ship. Yes, i would love it if the armor rep bonuses were changed to resistance bonuses on gallente ships, however I also acknowledge that it would be a significant boost and could upset ship balance. My reaction to the tier system and skill tree overhaul https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=899560#post899560 |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.03.07 16:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
If the bonus is inherently inferior it should be increased to parity. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
20
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Posted - 2012.03.08 06:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Luba Cibre wrote:An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away. i think the point its not to make them better at passive tanking but to give an adge to x rep bonused ship over x res ships at active tanking. if you look at the stat the abaddon can have the same active tank than the hyperion using the same amount of lows and the rokh can have the same active tank of a mael with the same amount of meds and on top of that bot the res bonused ship have more EHP so they can active tank longer.
change the rep bonus to +10% per level |
Khanh'rhh
One Man Rodgering
849
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Posted - 2012.03.08 11:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
IMO the rep bonus should come with a reduction in the damage to self rep modules when overloaded, such that you can overheat them for longer.
Something like 10% per level, so the final time you can run with heat is 150% the current level. The problem with rep bonus ships is you often fit several reppers (armour at least) and the heat damage means you overheat before you've repped enough that a standard buffer wouldn't have just been the better option.
Hopefully that makes sense. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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