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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hutchins
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 23:25:00 -
[121]
Supportin da' op. Minnie caps are in dire need of some serious love, the Nag especially. The Minmatar jack-of-all-trades design philosophy really breaks down when applied to a highly specialized ship like a dreadnought. Right now the biggest benefit of the Nag is that us Minmatar wannabe dreadnought drivers get to fly apocs/megas/rokhs as we crosstrain another race's ships so we can fly a dreadnought that's actually worth training for. |
Panic1
CompleXion Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:43:00 -
[122]
/signed
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Taedron
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:52:00 -
[123]
Minmatar capital ships are terrible. |
Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:14:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Dianeces on 12/06/2008 15:14:42
Originally by: Taedron Minmatar capital ships are terrible.
Quotin' dis.
Edit: I'm even supporting it now too.
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Kelbesque Crystalis
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:30:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Illyankesh
/agree
You need to check the "Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on" box if you want to show support and get the thumbs up icon. |
Orb Lati
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:05:00 -
[126]
So we all agree that the Naglfa is terrible at the moment. In the interest of keeping this thread active, What needs to be done to fix it?
I'm thinking it might not be the capitals that need a buff but the weapon systems them selves. If Capital Artillery and Auto cannons had a built in Gyro II buff would this mitigate their low DPS. I would even suggest a minor buff to the damage from the Citidal Torp Launcher as well as well dependent on not over powering the Phoenix which i hear also has underwhelming damage potential. |
Toffles
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:07:00 -
[127]
Without getting in to the numbers, the naglfar's best shot at matching the dps of other capitals is to fill it's lows with damage mods and then have a subpar shield tank. The alternative is to go for no damage mods and a standard armor tank, or some dreadful half armor tank with a couple of damage mods. Any way you slice it there's no real way to make it match up to the tank/dps levels of the other capitals. |
The Speaker
The Clue Factory
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:22:00 -
[128]
Nothing to add other than a thumbs up. |
Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 14:18:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Yorda on 13/06/2008 14:18:37
Originally by: Orb Lati So we all agree that the Naglfa is terrible at the moment. In the interest of keeping this thread active, What needs to be done to fix it?
I'm thinking it might not be the capitals that need a buff but the weapon systems them selves. If Capital Artillery and Auto cannons had a built in Gyro II buff would this mitigate their low DPS. I would even suggest a minor buff to the damage from the Citidal Torp Launcher as well as well dependent on not over powering the Phoenix which i hear also has underwhelming damage potential.
I think a general buff of minmatar tech 1 XL / L ammo would help a lot (even S/M/ T2 Artillery ammo buff wouldn't really effect nanoships while greatly improving the BS and above that desperately need help)
I would like to see the single ship bonus per weapon type (torps and projectiles) be turned into two (basically add an ROF/damage bonus on top of the other bonus), a MAJOR CPU buff to the nag (so that it doesn't need Co-processors to fit a shield tank), and more mid slots (less low slots) so that the nag can fit a more respectable tank.
A Rate of fire buff built into Capital Projectile / torp damage would also help the Phoenix and Naglfar without making either too strong. |
Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:05:00 -
[130]
Naglfar suggested changes.
- Objective - weaker than average tank but greater than average dps.
- Drop a mid slot for two low slots. Turn it into an clear armor tanker by slot layout changes.
- Do not buff Citadel Torpedoes but buff Capital Artillery substantially.
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Kelbesque Crystalis
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:05:00 -
[131]
The biggest problem stems from the fact that it has 1 less mid+low to handle having 5 highs. The is the general crux of split weapon design. It works on the Typhoon because it has more drone BW than the average BS. The can't exactly be done at the Dread level, esp w/o trampling on the Moroes. That said, the Moroes is like a Dominix that can fit 8 bonused turrets.
Even if Artillery and Cit Torps were buffed, they wouldn't scale well due to the Nag's slot imbalance. Giving up a mid/low for the extra high (that doesn't equal superior DPS) just seems like a design failure. Even with some damage mods in the lows, the ship doesn't have the CPU to shield tank well. So much for versatility.
CCP needs to get out of the fixed # of slots per ships or compensate in another fashion (like on the phoon) if they want to make split weapon systems work well. Or even better, make
My suggestions. Basically make it "on par" or keep the weak tank and buff the DPS:
a). Make it 100% artillery. Balance XL artillery so that 3x are in the same ballpark as the other dreads. Take away a high and either set it up to shield tank like the phoenix or armor tank like the moroes. Hell, give it a Mael tanking bonus. There aren't enough shield tanking caps as it is, and minmatar still will have to train. At least then it can scale with dmg mods, and wont always be insta primaried. Alternative is to make it 3x artillery and 1x torp to make it scale better with dmg mods.
b). Balance it so the extra skills training pays off for torps + projectiles. To do so, you'd need to make it do the most raw DPS w/o dmg mods, but slightly below average with less than perfect skills.
c). Balance the DPS so its "on par", but make it a shield tanker, so it can use its lows for dmg mods. It currently lacks the CPU and slot layout to do this.
None of these are really new ideas. |
AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2008.06.14 03:18:00 -
[132]
Mr. Vertical definitely needs some lovin'.
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Hanzo Starr
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.14 03:26:00 -
[133]
Stopped at Min BS5 crew.
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Gantrithor105
Acerbus Vindictum Critical Dissent
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:16:00 -
[134]
As a converted minmatar pilot with BS 5 and looking at capitals, I can say I've been very dissapointed with the numbers and what I've heard about them.
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Xenon Star
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:39:00 -
[135]
100% support from me
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:43:00 -
[136]
They are trully the weakest. But i solved that. Training towards Amarr for Capital department
Anyway i support an improvment of Mr Vertical & co _______________________________ Join the biggest Minmatar Corp! www.BrutorTribe.com
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MrAssasin
Error666 OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:47:00 -
[137]
Min ships need some TLC fast. CCP plez help cuz we are getting killed in in the cap race.
Flying minmatar ship is like takeing the seatbelt off while on a roller coster going 90 degrees downword. |
Thercon Jair
InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.06.14 08:06:00 -
[138]
/signed
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Zax Drien
DAB
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Posted - 2008.06.14 08:55:00 -
[139]
I clicky this subjec
<> Ol' blue eyes <> |
Tea Spoon
Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:07:00 -
[140]
Naglfars need a use outside sweet CCP videos Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
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Ninketsu
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:27:00 -
[141]
Yes please ______________________________________ Gobling Artillery 1.Find a cousin. 2.Load the cousin in the cannon. 3.Find another cousin. |
Wurgfer
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Posted - 2008.06.14 09:49:00 -
[142]
Absolutely yes.
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Doxs Roxs
Free Collective The OSS
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Posted - 2008.06.14 11:39:00 -
[143]
I dont fly them but they suck and need help. Especially the dread with its split weapon systems. Make it a pure projectile boat instead of the mess it is today.
Regards /Doxs After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead... |
Myrkala
Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.06.14 16:19:00 -
[144]
/signed
The argument about "Hardest to train for -> Should be best" sounds good.
But I would really like to see this:
1. Give the naglfar 3 Turret (and 3 Missile Hardpoints)
Argument:
Gives the pilots the option to train for either weapon system, giving them options and also opening the doors a bit wider for Minmatar Pilots who want to train for them, shortening the time it takes to train.
3 Turret slots is pretty obvious, split weapon system on a dread is just idiotic, I can't see any reason for having one on a dread.
Giving the option to use launchers as well follows the minmatar way of being "versatile."
2. Boost fittings
Quote OP. "Ruppie ain't no puppie." |
Myrkala
Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.06.14 16:24:00 -
[145]
Forgot to check the box. :S "Ruppie ain't no puppie." |
nabort
omen.
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Posted - 2008.06.14 18:34:00 -
[146]
Signed in blood (if needed, preferably not my own.)
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Zurin Arctus
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:07:00 -
[147]
Quote: OR 3 gun hardpoints and 3 missile launcher hardpoints with a boost to the ships damage bonus for both
I stopped reading there.
Give us a break, Minny trolls. You're still one of the two best PvP races in the game.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 20:02:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Quote: OR 3 gun hardpoints and 3 missile launcher hardpoints with a boost to the ships damage bonus for both
I stopped reading there.
Give us a break, Minny trolls. You're still one of the two best PvP races in the game.
Terrible post spotted.
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Yorda
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.14 23:58:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Myrkala /signed
The argument about "Hardest to train for -> Should be best" sounds good.
But I would really like to see this:
1. Give the naglfar 3 Turret (and 3 Missile Hardpoints)
Argument:
Gives the pilots the option to train for either weapon system, giving them options and also opening the doors a bit wider for Minmatar Pilots who want to train for them, shortening the time it takes to train.
3 Turret slots is pretty obvious, split weapon system on a dread is just idiotic, I can't see any reason for having one on a dread.
Giving the option to use launchers as well follows the minmatar way of being "versatile."
2. Boost fittings
Quote OP.
I don't have a problem with the Naglfar being the hardest to train for and arguably the worst, it's more the EXTREME difference between it and the other dreads. It just cant even come close to the revelation in any aspect. The only dread it beats in any aspect is the phoenix with it's dps, but even then the pheonix has twice the effective hp and 3-4 times the alpha.
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Quote: OR 3 gun hardpoints and 3 missile launcher hardpoints with a boost to the ships damage bonus for both
I stopped reading there.
Give us a break, Minny trolls. You're still one of the two best PvP races in the game.
Thank god you stopped reading at the end of my post, I'm glad you took those few extra saved seconds to post this.
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Chungito
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.15 01:11:00 -
[150]
Agree.
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