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L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
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Posted - 2012.03.07 13:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Cloak hunter
Requirements -
Needs to be able to locate cloaked "Inactive vessels" only. It also needs to not be game breaking.
Thoughts on the ships attibutes/capabilities -
This vessel should be fragile. Perhaps similar EHP to a T1 hauler with the same manuverability. It could use a top slot pulse device which slowly locates the hunted ship over many pulses/cycles of the device. It also should not be able to cloak whilst doing this meaning it would need fleet support for protection whilst scanning. Can not operate device within 5000 meters of station also I think would be fair.
Further Thoughts -
It must only be used to find "Inactive Cloaked vessels"! otherwise this would potentially be game breaking.
It possibly needs other uses because just hunting inactive cloaked vessels is a very limiting use of a ship. It also needs to be fairly skill intensive because its a specailist job and I don't think everyone should be easily given the capability of using such a ship.
Open for discussion concenring the thoughts above and possibly what additional roles this ship could play.
There is enough flamage already in multiple posts about AFK cloakers. Please try and control yourselves so this doesn't become another one of those threads. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
164
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 13:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
afk cloaking is required and essential part of 0.0 play. No nerf needed.
I dont know why fa**ots like you keep opening new threads about the same topic, when even the other threads parallel discussion goes on. |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 13:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
I took your post as Offensive concerning your language used. I stated there was enough flamage on other threads already, watch your language or don't bother posting.
Your use of language has been brought to the attention of the site mods.
Thanks, back to an open debate on the role of this ship. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
164
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 13:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
get the f*ck out or post in the other thread. your topic is not special at all, its another rant about something completely legit.
btw. werent you the same LordF1end who "afk cloak" camped T-NN in stain forever in a falcon waiting for mission runners? |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 13:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
You have some major anger issues. If you actually read the thread you will find it's about ship class discussion and additional roles.
Try reading before posting. I never stated afk cloaking wasnt a required part of the game. I use it myself. Try to put your brain in gear before posting. These forums should really have some form of permit tied to those that can post, a bit like a permit for unintelligent people to have kids which also probably applies to yourself.
Good day lol. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
164
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 13:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
unfortunately, those forums have even permit to post even for people who cant find existing threads. Your rant is nothing which deserves an own thread, just one of many. Your idea was discussed to death in a myriad of other forum threads. Read them if you want reasoning for and against your basic idea of cloaker hunting in general. tldr: It would break eve (even more). |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 14:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
If its soo game breaking, the concept of the above, then why do you propose this has already been discussed hypothetically within the CSM summits.
I use AFK cloaking but at the same time I see the otherside and I can see how crippling it can be and to put off players by the whole experience. This thread isnt for that discussion, its been discussed to death already. This thread is to discuss the concept of such a ship and the fact that if one was ever brought into the game then the role of the ship would be very limiting...so if it was to ever happen, what additional roles could this ship have. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
164
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 14:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
cloak is fine, afk cloak is fine, has been discussed a lot of times so your idea of a ship for something which is not needed fails already in that core question - your thread will end up in this discussion again.
Its not the method of hunting cloaks which is controversal but the general neccessity of it which is already highly questionable!
Its the same as if you would start topics about cooking bananas, when noone really wants cooked bananas. |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 14:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's only debated this much because it obvously effects a large chunk of the player base.
CCP obviously care about it otherwise they would not bring it up and consider methods of rectifying the issue. If your goal was to steamrole this thread into another flame war about afk cloakign then congrats. I think you have been successful.
I'm not arguing or debating this because its been discussed enough already. I hold some hope this thread can get back on topic about additional roles this ship could potentially play.
"Never argue with Idiots, they drag you down to your level, then beat you with experience". |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1183
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 14:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:The Cloak hunter
Requirements -
Needs to be able to locate cloaked "Inactive vessels" only.
I stopped right there. The rest of the thread is irrelevant after that.
Either it detects cloaked ships or it doesn't. No other conditions should be on that at all. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
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L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
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Posted - 2012.03.07 14:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good points, I guess that would mean a redesign to the ship features I layed out after that.
Don't you think having the ability to locate any cloaked vessel is game breaking though? I personally don't agree with that. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1183
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 14:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
No. I think having a vessel that is 100% immune to any threat is game breaking. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Toxic Paradox
The Replicators Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 14:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cloak hunters could possibly emit a ping, similar to a sub that would run like the directional scanner.
The ship could not be cloaked while doing so. to give the cloaked vessel the benefit of a heads up.
Should be a timed module similar to a Hictor bubble where the ship could not receive support from other ships while the module is active. It should consume fuel to run not be cap driven.( My 2 cents worth: a cloaked ship should consume fuel as well).
Would be limited to a range of say 100km or on grid. to be determined but fair.
This would not de-cloak but show the location of the ship for a brief moment. basically just long enough to see it there. You would not be able to interact with the pinged ship such as warp to or target the vessel.This gives the cloaked ship a chance to GTFO if he's not AFK :)
This should not be able to affect ships just loading system such as jumping through a gate until that ship cancels or runs out of session change cloak. |
Blatant Forum Alt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote: There is enough flamage already in multiple posts about AFK cloakers. Please try and control yourselves so this doesn't become another one of those threads.
Dont post pointless crap about afk cloak hunters then.
If you dont want to get flamed, dont be flameworthy. Its quite simple.
afk cloaking is fine, we do not need afk cloak hunters/nerfs. |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 15:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Flamage is expected, this is Eve after all. Not openly calling myself and bunch of players fa**ots isn't flamage. That's just plain rude without any warrant of argument. I fully expected flamage with this thread. It's actually pretty funny/amusing.
I see both sides of the argument and wanted to discuss a reasonable cure. If you can't add value to a thread then whats the point in posting. |
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
130
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 16:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't listen to them, they are just worried they will have to actually start playing the game again The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
150
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 16:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote:Flamage is expected, this is Eve after all. Not openly calling myself and bunch of players fa**ots isn't flamage. That's just plain rude without any warrant of argument. I fully expected flamage with this thread. It's actually pretty funny/amusing.
I see both sides of the argument and wanted to discuss a reasonable cure. If you can't add value to a thread then whats the point in posting. The first consideration to the concept of hunting cloaked ships, is balance.
If you want to hunt them, you must first earn the intel that they are present. This is in direct conflict with being handed a complete system roster just by looking at local chat, and is cited by many as the primary reason they exist.
It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.
We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you" (Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)
You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.
And honestly, neither side should be the absolute that they currently are. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
164
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 17:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:L0rdF1end wrote:Flamage is expected, this is Eve after all. Not openly calling myself and bunch of players fa**ots isn't flamage. That's just plain rude without any warrant of argument. I fully expected flamage with this thread. It's actually pretty funny/amusing.
I see both sides of the argument and wanted to discuss a reasonable cure. If you can't add value to a thread then whats the point in posting. The first consideration to the concept of hunting cloaked ships, is balance. If you want to hunt them, you must first earn the intel that they are present. This is in direct conflict with being handed a complete system roster just by looking at local chat, and is cited by many as the primary reason they exist. It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local. We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you" (Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment) You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance. And honestly, neither side should be the absolute that they currently are.
I would appreciate local changes so I'm not instantly revealed for the foes when I enter local, so I can stop wasting energy for running my PC days over days. |
Tidurious
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
165
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 18:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
1. Please learn to use the search function before posting the same mindless drivel that has been spammed on here over and over again. Your post contributes nothing to the community and really doesn't present anything new, so it has no purpose.
2. You have failed to let us know why this is needed in the game. We shouldn't introduce things just because they're "cool".
3. AFK Cloaking (or ANY cloaking, for that matter) is working as intended. If/when local is removed in 0.0 systems, then a cloak-hunter type module or ship would be appropriate. However, with the current local system, it is balanced.
Your idea is bad and would unbalance cloaking. |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 19:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tidurious wrote:1. Please learn to use the search function before posting the same mindless drivel that has been spammed on here over and over again. Your post contributes nothing to the community and really doesn't present anything new, so it has no purpose.
2. You have failed to let us know why this is needed in the game. We shouldn't introduce things just because they're "cool".
3. AFK Cloaking (or ANY cloaking, for that matter) is working as intended. If/when local is removed in 0.0 systems, then a cloak-hunter type module or ship would be appropriate. However, with the current local system, it is balanced.
Your idea is bad and would unbalance cloaking.
1, Please link me a post where ship features for a Cloak Hunter ship is listed/discussed.
2, This is obvious, see countless threads that you speak of and refer yourself to the CSM notes
3, I never said AFK cloaking is or isnt working as intended, learn to read. I stated I can see the argument on both sides and wished to discuss what seemed to be a ship with very limited use if the hypothetical cure raised by CCP were to be implemented. The discussion was what additional features/roles this ship could play if implemented.
Again another pointless post leading away from the actual discussion material. |
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
164
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 20:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
L0rdF1end wrote: 1, Please link me a post where ship features for a Cloak Hunter ship is listed/discussed.
2, This is obvious, see countless threads that you speak of and refer yourself to the CSM notes
3, I never said AFK cloaking is or isnt working as intended, learn to read. I stated I can see the argument on both sides and wished to discuss what seemed to be a ship with very limited use if the hypothetical cure raised by CCP were to be implemented. The discussion was what additional features/roles this ship could play if implemented.
Again another pointless post leading away from the actual discussion material.
just stop the fck posting in this horrible thread. |
L0rdF1end
STA'IN The Devil's Warrior Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 09:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thinking about this thread and the replies posted it makes clear sense to me that a Cloak Hunting ship fitting in to the current game mechanics just won't work. It's not a plausable solution to a problem.
As someone posted in this thread, it would mean changing the way we use local or gather intel to make ships not 100% immune to anything because that is unbalanced.
I guess without this thread, for me at least, I never thought it through completely what impact such a ship would have and how this isn't the answer to the problem. |
Caliph Muhammed
Short Bus Friends
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 10:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Look this thread again.
Cloakers expose their weakness when they uncloak. Slower targeting, less dps, etc.
The cloakers strength is being able to choose when that weakness is exposed.
Cloaking ships and the skills required to be effective with them, weapons, piloting, electronics and engineering are heavy in price. It should be powerful and viable. It is. It doesn't come free. Whatever the non cloaking pilot requires for combat viability so does the cloaker plus the addition of the cloaking skill itself.
The prey also has the option to use a cloak.
But the prey doesn't want to pay the price. Thats a personal choice.
Remove local comes first or there is no discussion to be had. Certainly no compromise agreeable will be without it.
I could type out a multi page thesis on exactly how bad a ill thought out change to the mechanic can be with the appropriate exploitation, but I won't. Frankly this thread isn't special. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 11:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=59432&find=unread
This is what your looking for. Please keep it civil. |
Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 11:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
If you want me to log every time I decide I need a smoke, then you are a big fat meanie. As a parent, who doesn't smoke in the house, occasionally needs to do something for my kid or spouse, etc, I tell you to go to hell. There is NO reason I should have to log out every time I need to handle some quick business while I am hostile 0.0. |
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