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borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 08:50:00 -
[1]
Edited by: borup on 25/05/2008 08:50:58
I have heard this so many times.. And i think its true. Due to the silly aggro time they can just deaggro and dock, then undock 16 secs after with fully repaired ship, which makes it impossible to kill them. I think it should be raised to 3-5 Minutes, then people will take it more serious when they attack another person. This MAY give less piracy, and ganking, but it will give os a chance to actual kill someone. We where fighting today, and almost had a kill, but due to the low aggro time he just docked. Its like if you're trying to kill a carrier outside a station you will have alot of problmes.
- A) Its almost impossible to bump a carrier off the station
- B) It has alot of shield, structure and armor.
- C) It can deaggro, and dock within a minut
Please do something about this. Post a reply. Thanks for your time. Best Regards. Borup
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borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 09:17:00 -
[2]
Here is another suggestion. Make Different Aggro Time. Example:
Carriers & Dreadnoughts = 3 Minutes All Battleships = 2 Minutes All Battlecruisers = 1+ Minute All Cruisers & Frigates = 30 Secconds.
This is just a example, so its fair for everyone. know that its hard for a capital ship to engage. Im a cap pilot myself. But this is a way so its fair for everyone who attacks, A cruiser wont attack outside the station, unless its a T2 Cruiser or such. Make a new aggro time, that allows us to actually have a chance of killing a capital ship, that is atleast what i think. Thanks for reading this Borup
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TSucka
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.05.25 09:19:00 -
[3]
Edited by: TSucka on 25/05/2008 09:23:41 I do agree on this point, however.
Making aggro time long for all ships would make it a hell for everyone flying a Frigate, Cruiser or some of the small ships. Therefore I suggest we make a seperated aggro time depending on which ship you are in, this way we wont have so many Carriers camping 0.4- stations.
I haven't found any way this can be abused, please post your comments and support this wonderful idea.
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Kuranta
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.25 09:31:00 -
[4]
After the HP buff, the agresison timer had not been adjusted and bigger ships do not have to think about it anymore.
Adjusting the timer in relation to the shipsize seems to be a good idea. The bigger the ship, the longer it takes the crew to get the ship ready to dock when on battlestations.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.25 09:56:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 25/05/2008 09:59:59 Bumping ships off a station is something of an art form (and depends on the station's docking radius), but that's how you deal with people playing the undock game. If a carrier is caught and webbed outside of dock range without support, it should die.
If a 3-minute aggro timer makes carriers killable, it will utterly screw over anything smaller, and I really don't think this game needs subcaps to be marginalised any further.
Edit: ok, you posted the variable aggro timer while I was typing, which is less bad, but I don't think the aggro timer needs changing. Careless carrier pilots can be bumped off the undock by a gang which knows what they're doing, and we have the killmails to prove it. -----------
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borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:16:00 -
[6]
Edited by: borup on 25/05/2008 10:16:28
A carrier comes with a responsibility. I think if they made the Aggro timer for different ship classes it would be better. A carrier can be bumped off the station, but that still depends on who is doing it, how long they've done it, what station it is, where the carrier is at etc.
These is pure facts, you can bump a carrier with right ships and if its located the right place of the station. But still the ''Aggro time'' is rediculous if you ask me. A carrier can dock short time after a aggro. My point isnt that i want carriers to be ''kill able''. My point is simply that the aggro time is to short.
Battleships can camp outside a station, tank the sentrys while killing others, that is alright. Though after a short while he can dock if he thinks trouble is comming. If this change it will make people more aware of their ships, and how they should act. Ofcourse it will be a pain in the butt if the aggro time changes.
Still i do think that they should change it. People have to be more aware of their actions if you ask me. This wont nerf the game, it simply just make it better. Also, this will effect solo gatecamps ofcourse, but i dont see a problem in that.
Best Regards. Borup
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.05.25 10:43:00 -
[7]
Thumbs up for the variable aggro times.
Make suicide ganking more difficult!
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.05.25 11:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Thumbs up for the variable aggro times.
/ agreed
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borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 19:47:00 -
[9]
I would like to see more replys, And to the supporters, Thank You!
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.25 20:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 25/05/2008 09:59:59 Bumping ships off a station is something of an art form (and depends on the station's docking radius), but that's how you deal with people playing the undock game. If a carrier is caught and webbed outside of dock range without support, it should die.
If a 3-minute aggro timer makes carriers killable, it will utterly screw over anything smaller, and I really don't think this game needs subcaps to be marginalised any further.
Edit: ok, you posted the variable aggro timer while I was typing, which is less bad, but I don't think the aggro timer needs changing. Careless carrier pilots can be bumped off the undock by a gang which knows what they're doing, and we have the killmails to prove it.
/me agrees with a Goon again.
This isn't broke, imo, so it doesn't need fixin'.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:05:00 -
[11]
Sorry but that is the most stupid thing i've ever heard. Jita isnt broke, so why fix it? Thats the same thing to ask.
No it isnt broke but eve could improve this.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: borup Sorry but that is the most stupid thing i've ever heard. Jita isnt broke, so why fix it? Thats the same thing to ask.
No it isnt broke but eve could improve this.
I don't remember saying anything about Jita being broken... you, however, state that the aggro timer is 'to' short, implying very strongly that, in your opinion, the feature is broken.
In my opinion, it is not broken, so it doesn't need any fixing. Nor does it need any improvement.
I apologize for your not being able to understand my post.
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 21:57:00 -
[13]
I havent stated at all that the feature is broken. I only stated that it is a pain for me and others. And i've made suggestions how to improve this. Also you state that ''It isnt broken, so it dosen't need fixin'' Well its the same as this: Jita isnt broken, so why fix it? Off topic but it has the same meaning.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 25/05/2008 09:59:59 Bumping ships off a station is something of an art form (and depends on the station's docking radius), but that's how you deal with people playing the undock game. If a carrier is caught and webbed outside of dock range without support, it should die.
If a 3-minute aggro timer makes carriers killable, it will utterly screw over anything smaller, and I really don't think this game needs subcaps to be marginalised any further.
Edit: ok, you posted the variable aggro timer while I was typing, which is less bad, but I don't think the aggro timer needs changing. Careless carrier pilots can be bumped off the undock by a gang which knows what they're doing, and we have the killmails to prove it.
/me agrees with a Goon again.
This isn't broke, imo, so it doesn't need fixin'.
/me agrees with someone who agrees with a goon 0_o -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.25 22:19:00 -
[15]
Edited by: borup on 25/05/2008 22:24:44
Well then i have to agree that since jita isnt broken, they shouldnt do anything about it.
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: borup I havent stated at all that the feature is broken. I only stated that it is a pain for me and others. And i've made suggestions how to improve this. Also you state that ''It isnt broken, so it dosen't need fixin'' Well its the same as this: Jita isnt broken, so why fix it? Off topic but it has the same meaning.
You don't know what 'imply' means, do you...?
Originally by: techzer0 I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:45:00 -
[17]
I swear I posted my support for this yesterday, but I'll type out my post again.
Tanking has significantly increased while the 60 second aggro timer has not increased to match. Tanking has improved by:
+50% HP boost Rigs, most notably trimarks Combat boosters Cheap T2, DCU/EANM/reppers, etc Heat Tier 3 BS/ Tier 2 BC with more slots, better tanks.
Now as for "lulz, just bump them" I am guessing you have never done this. I have been to some stations and traveled 70km in a straight line and was STILL ABLE TO DOCK! Add to that the fact that smart staion huggers can enclose themselves in the station and be un-bumpable.
I find it strange that people think nanos are overpowered because they can disengage, but someone at a station can disengage even when scrammed, webbed and aggressed. I say, if you want to PvP then PvP, there shouldn't be a get out of jail free when you think you might die.
Originally by: CCP Casqade Please refrain from making assumptions on game mechanics and then presenting them as facts before testing them yourself.
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AtomizerX
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: AtomizerX on 26/05/2008 02:14:57 This is not something I'd thought about before, but your proposals make sense.
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:18:00 -
[19]
Variable agro timer would be a really good thing.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
borup
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:39:00 -
[20]
I do apologize if my english is alittle rusty, and my understanding is far from what it should be. Though im glad to see the support, and i really hope this could go all the way. Variable aggro time, is a simple and good way. Thanks to all supporters.
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Cautet
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:44:00 -
[21]
Even longer than that timer for caps, to be honest. Would also be nice to increase the self-destruct based on ship class.
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Cautet
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:46:00 -
[22]
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RoCkEt X
The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:56:00 -
[23]
worst idea ever, you attack 1 guy on a station, and then 50 people come in and blob you.
increasing aggro timer encourages blob warfare anything that supports blob warfare - i cannot support.
did you know that you can kill a carrier in 2 minutes easily with a sizeable battleship gang (20 or so ppl)
for carriers, you can web its drones - if the pilot has his drones set to aggressive, the fighter will shoot you, meaning the carrier will be still agressed. my friends and took a thanatos down to 10% armor w/ structure bleed before he was able to dock, and he only managed to get the fighter back because we lost one of our webs on it.
station/dockingwarrior warfare is not great, but it is ALOT better than it could be. extending BS aggro time to 2minutes defeats the point of having aggro timer, because as soon as you begin a fight, you are garrenteed to either kill, or be killed. which is not the point of station/gate warfare. the skill is choosing when to aggress and when to not.
/signed
-RoCkEt X
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TSucka
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RoCkEt X worst idea ever, you attack 1 guy on a station, and then 50 people come in and blob you.
increasing aggro timer encourages blob warfare anything that supports blob warfare - i cannot support.
did you know that you can kill a carrier in 2 minutes easily with a sizeable battleship gang (20 or so ppl)
for carriers, you can web its drones - if the pilot has his drones set to aggressive, the fighter will shoot you, meaning the carrier will be still agressed. my friends and took a thanatos down to 10% armor w/ structure bleed before he was able to dock, and he only managed to get the fighter back because we lost one of our webs on it.
station/dockingwarrior warfare is not great, but it is ALOT better than it could be. extending BS aggro time to 2minutes defeats the point of having aggro timer, because as soon as you begin a fight, you are garrenteed to either kill, or be killed. which is not the point of station/gate warfare. the skill is choosing when to aggress and when to not.
/signed
-RoCkEt X
I guess you didn't catch the point Rock, he wants variable timers on ships, but that's typical for players like you. Only reading one post and then comment on it. You can kill anything on + second if you want to, just get 1000 Titans, it's easy but very damn expensive.
And you probably missed the "Example:" part that doesn't mean that's how it should be, but isn't pretty realistic that it takes shorter time to dock a frigate with a crew of 4 than a carrier with a crew of 500?
But well if you think it's a bad idea to get some realism into eve, I won't stop you. I just can't see a point in having them same timers for all ships, then the Carrier station warfare will still continue.
And to your point about 20 man bs gang can kill a Carrier, of course it can. And yes some players almost did that to mine, but we just jumped out 5 dreadnoughts and they went pop. Later they came with 6 dreads and 5 carriers and we docked again. Does this sound fair? Yes infact it does <-- Ironic.
Regards TSucka
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Sir Ironhead
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:01:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sir Ironhead on 26/05/2008 21:01:12 Variable aggro time will help us all. If you're in a freakin carrier, you need to be carefull. I've seen far to many attack a battleship or battlecruiser. This will teach them not to engage everything moving. Battleships & battlecruisers will be more carefull when gatecamping or station camping and so on, i fully support this subject and reccommend eve to take a look.
Best Regards. Sir Ironhead (SI)
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TheBlack Judge
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: borup Here is another suggestion. Make Different Aggro Time. Example:
Carriers & Dreadnoughts = 3 Minutes All Battleships = 2 Minutes All Battlecruisers = 1+ Minute All Cruisers & Frigates = 30 Secconds.
This is just a example, so its fair for everyone. know that its hard for a capital ship to engage. Im a cap pilot myself. But this is a way so its fair for everyone who attacks, A cruiser wont attack outside the station, unless its a T2 Cruiser or such. Make a new aggro time, that allows us to actually have a chance of killing a capital ship, that is atleast what i think. Thanks for reading this Borup
This sounds fair, though you only name carriers above, but anyways this is a good point. Variable aggro time should be put to action. TBJ
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Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.26 23:48:00 -
[27]
Some interesting thoughts in this thread, especially the variable time one - though I believe it shouldn't penalise mission runners and couriers who will often have fast dock - undock cycles.
A thought: "If you are in dock range of a station then you can't fire guns, missiles or control/launch drones" (a 'suppression field' around the station or something like that) - could also have the desired effect maybe?
IZ
My principles |
Zeknichov
Dark Prophecy Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.27 05:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: borup Here is another suggestion. Make Different Aggro Time. Example:
Carriers & Dreadnoughts = 3 Minutes All Battleships = 2 Minutes All Battlecruisers = 1+ Minute All Cruisers & Frigates = 30 Secconds.
This is just a example, so its fair for everyone. know that its hard for a capital ship to engage. Im a cap pilot myself. But this is a way so its fair for everyone who attacks, A cruiser wont attack outside the station, unless its a T2 Cruiser or such. Make a new aggro time, that allows us to actually have a chance of killing a capital ship, that is atleast what i think. Thanks for reading this Borup
/signed
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Cautet
Precision Engineering Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Some interesting thoughts in this thread, especially the variable time one - though I believe it shouldn't penalise mission runners and couriers who will often have fast dock - undock cycles.
A thought: "If you are in dock range of a station then you can't fire guns, missiles or control/launch drones" (a 'suppression field' around the station or something like that) - could also have the desired effect maybe?
IZ
Agro timer for docking doesn't effect mission runners, just people who aggress (against a player), then try to redock.
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Inanna Zuni
The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.27 22:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cautet Agro timer for docking doesn't effect mission runners, just people who aggress (against a player), then try to redock.
Agreed, however I was noting the comment "The bigger the ship, the longer it takes the crew to get the ship ready to dock when on battlestations." which appeared to be suggesting a differential dock/undock time dependent on ship size.
IZ
My principles |
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