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NanoDerek
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Posted - 2008.05.26 12:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
125 is more than 108, right?
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Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:27:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
Actually the value of the BPO is independent of the item it produces. He actually increased the value of the BPO MORE than it cost him to research it to ME10. Should he decide to get out of the Maelstrom market and sell his BPO that's when he'll realize his profit on the BPO itself.
To give you an idea, it only costs about 2-4mil isk to research a BS BPO to ME:10 (the variance is due to the variable price of the POS fuel or the exact slot charges your alliance charges for the research), but you can then re-sell that BPO for about 10-100mil more than it cost you to buy initially. So you can totally ignore the cost of the BPO for production purposes, since it has intrinsic value on it's own.
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Xonox Galatorg
Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.05.26 19:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
It's not about what the CCP listed price is. It's about what the market value of the minerals used to build the ship are worth... And using Jita prices I can say with relative certainty (I don't even buy/sell Maelstroms) that 125m is below mineral value. The thing is, as soon as it drops below the magic mineral value on the market, dirty peeps like me with 100% refine and no tax just buy them and melt them down. So... By all means KEEP UNDERCUTTING.
This is exactly how I feel. It nice to not have to buy minerals at the normal cost when you can just look around for a while, find people that are selling something too cheap, buy up the ships or modules for reprocessing, then make something that they should have made in the first place.
Sure you can buy and resell them at the price they should be, but I find that turning them into something else that makes more profit is much better. If you buy them and put them back on the market in the same region for what they should be you could run into the problem that the same person will keep putting up those items and end up competing with you. You can make more profit by reprocessing and building something worthwhile.
I REALLY like it when people start selling large ships for well under the cost because this is lots of cheaper minerals. -Xonox Pulsar Combat Supplies, Director of Production and POS |
Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.05.26 21:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Saska D'light If you are going to flame me then you could at least use a spell checker. :|
Check the topic title, doofus :P
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Nicholai Stropkov
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Posted - 2008.05.26 22:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Spud Gunn
Originally by: Nicholai Stropkov with bpo ME10, PE V i can make them for 108M, this thread sux
I assume the BPO, the cost to research it, and the time to skill up PE to 5 were all free, right?
I don't own maelstrom bpo. I bought 10 run bpc ME 10, PE 5 for 6M. The price of bpc is included in the cost.The cost of maelstrom bpc is in the range of 0.6-1M per run depending on ML researched.
Originally by: Spud Gunn the time to skill up PE to 5
You must be joking...
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.05.26 23:19:00 -
[36]
using the 7-day numbers I can build one for 104,035,041.58 _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.05.27 03:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Alex Salas I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
And they call people who pew pew the real pirates. |
Ragoul Gurmok
EVEREADY
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Posted - 2008.05.27 07:25:00 -
[38]
seeing as ur angry i'll take ur maelstrom BPO for 800 mill :P waiting for contract. play the game use ur noggin :P Freightering Service |
Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Alex Salas I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
and us manufacturers get stuck on the sidelines eh?
i would pod anyone who sold a BS for one mil more then it cost the build. epic fail @ profits.
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Wieting Foyu
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.05.27 09:17:00 -
[40]
Using your logic then all buy orders should be higher because no one will fulfill them anyway at a loss. If you are using Jita prices to decide what it cost to build you should GTFOOJ. there are 62 other regions and half of em sell items much much lower than that laghole. You want to stop the prices then buy the cheap ship look who sold it and stalk them. Whining on a thread doesn't teach anyone.
Wieting Foyu Foyu Investments
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Oakrayven
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.27 13:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Alex Salas I am sorry mate, traders gouge pvpers in the market and pvpers gouge traders through ganks/ransom. There are more ways to take down a person than a autocannons/blasters/beams/heavies.
and us manufacturers get stuck on the sidelines eh?
i would pod anyone who sold a BS for one mil more then it cost the build. epic fail @ profits.
Anyone who is taking what is less than a 1% margin is poding themselves far more efficently than you can. . . LOL ***** **** Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not paranoid ENOUGH to play EVE |
Kaworu Tabris
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Posted - 2008.05.27 15:12:00 -
[42]
I'd be very surprised if these weren't immediately bought/resold when you posted this.
Rather than complain about it, you should have bought them and sold them yourself.
You just made someone rich(er).
Choleric temper FTW!
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2008.05.27 18:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Wieting Foyu Using your logic then all buy orders should be higher because no one will fulfill them anyway at a loss. If you are using Jita prices to decide what it cost to build you should GTFOOJ. there are 62 other regions and half of em sell items much much lower than that laghole. You want to stop the prices then buy the cheap ship look who sold it and stalk them. Whining on a thread doesn't teach anyone.
Wieting Foyu Foyu Investments
While prices do vary (both up and down) in the other regions, if your goal is high volume turnover, Jita is the only real place to do it. The other smaller hubs, while still having relatively decent movement of goods, pale in comparison to Jita's volumes.
So basically, while you can generally do things more profitably outside of Jita, it's always at a smaller scale. Once you try and scale up, you need higher supply/demand to meet that scale, and Jita meets that.
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Aiden Bismuth
Die Boeremag
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Posted - 2008.05.29 09:58:00 -
[44]
In my limited time in EVE, I have put a few things, mostly minerals, on the market. I check the regional market, and price based on that. More complex costing models can come into play later, and so far I have sold everything.
I have also bought ships at well below region average, and other items, for 4-5 jumps at the most, well worth it IMHO.
AB
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Uncle Mo
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2008.05.30 05:08:00 -
[45]
Worst thread ever? Naaa, it did give me a laugh. --------------------------------------------- Official US ambassador to the UK.
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Thuraya Salairs
Eve Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:31:00 -
[46]
Quote: I'm not raging, I'm just disappointed in you darling. When running a level 1 mission becomes more profitable than making and selling a BS something is wrong.
I agree with that. Yes i can see someone selling it at a low price for a quick sale but when it becomes the standard price there is something really wrong.
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David Miliband
Evil Proctologists
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Posted - 2008.05.31 11:24:00 -
[47]
LoL @ the OP... I sell T3 BS for around 125mill or whatever the lowest order is and make over 10 mill profit... you just have to mine some of the mins yourself.
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Demtalin le'Mercennaire
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.31 15:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: David Miliband LoL @ the OP... I sell T3 BS for around 125mill or whatever the lowest order is and make over 10 mill profit... you just have to mine some of the mins yourself.
And then add the market price of those minerals to the cost price for that ship -------- Billy Jean is not my lover |
Hikaru Sulu
Black Legion Industries
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Posted - 2008.05.31 23:31:00 -
[49]
In Soviet Russia, Battleship buys YOU!
Originally by: Morrow Disca So, I find myself suddenly cross training for Amarr. .... because the abaddon firing lasers looks cooler than the Fonz carrying a big bag of cool things. |
Trader Axim
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Posted - 2008.06.01 01:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hikaru Sulu In Soviet Russia, Battleship buys YOU!
WIN
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Wieting Foyu
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.06.02 00:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Wieting Foyu Using your logic then all buy orders should be higher because no one will fulfill them anyway at a loss. If you are using Jita prices to decide what it cost to build you should GTFOOJ. there are 62 other regions and half of em sell items much much lower than that laghole. You want to stop the prices then buy the cheap ship look who sold it and stalk them. Whining on a thread doesn't teach anyone.
Wieting Foyu Foyu Investments
While prices do vary (both up and down) in the other regions, if your goal is high volume turnover, Jita is the only real place to do it. The other smaller hubs, while still having relatively decent movement of goods, pale in comparison to Jita's volumes.
So basically, while you can generally do things more profitably outside of Jita, it's always at a smaller scale. Once you try and scale up, you need higher supply/demand to meet that scale, and Jita meets that.
I respectfully disagree. In Jita more items may sell but you have more opponents undercutting you every 10 seconds by .01 isk. If 100 items are sold per day, that doesn't mean they are YOUR items. You would be lucky to get 10% of the sales for the items that day. In another region 10-20 may sell per day but you are the lowest price more often so your 100 items are sold within a week at your asking price rather than 2 weeks of continuously lowering your price.
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Toria Nynys
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Posted - 2008.06.02 04:54:00 -
[52]
It never ceases to amaze me how
1. People input *SELL ORDER* pricing into meep or their spreadsheet and whine how they can't make any money producing at PE IV with an unresearched BPO.
2. In every thread at least one guy pipes up with the equivalent of "minerals I mine are free."
Yes, it's possible to eventually move minerals with sell orders. But you have to babysit *8* sell orders instead of 1. Plus there may be hauling involved. I'll pass, thanks.
As for the free minerals viewpoint: more money for your free stuff is better than less money for your free stuff.
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Toria Nynys
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Posted - 2008.06.02 04:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Wieting Foyu In another region 10-20 may sell per day but you are the lowest price more often so your 100 items are sold within a week at your asking price rather than 2 weeks of continuously lowering your price.
Not so much. Nobody is forcing you to play .01 isk games. If your profit margin and volume are large enough to play in Jita then undercut like you mean business -- by 5% or so. Resellers will pick up your goods and everyone's happy. You've traded a bit of profit for their time.
If your profit margin is so thin that you can't do that -- well, enjoy your slow sales and .01 isk fun.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:18:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Karanth
And Trader D sees this, goes "ROFL tools" and buys it all up, relists it at 140mil, and makes a 15mil profit on every ship.
This is the other side of the often mis-used 'opportunity cost' mantra that gets spoken of over and over.
Trader D, being a trader, yes just made a nice profit. However Trader D now has those assets locked in a sell order that will take time.
Builder C got a quick sale and again has liquid assets to work with, which can then be immediately reinvested.
Let's look at how this could potentially pan out to Builder C's advantage. Some numbers I'm pulling from the thread, others I"m making up since I am mearly trying to give a hypothetical example, not trying to pick apart this specific instance.
Say the average selling price is, as was said, 140M and it takes 4 days to sell at this price. Say the sell price of the raw materials is 100M.
Builder C builds the ship and puts it on the market for 120M, which represents a 20M profit margin. Trader D snaps up the ship (let's assume after 1 day to notice) and puts the ship back up on the market for 140M.
At first glance Builder C just lost out on 20M in profit. However, Builder C now has that 120M in liquid assets, meaning they can turn around and immediately put another ship on the market.
If this is repeated over the 4 days it takes to sell the original 140M ship, Builder C has the potential for having 4 sales at 20M profit each, resulting in a net profit of 80M. Trader D on the other hand has sold a total of one ship for a total profit of 20M with 300M in raw material potential lock in transactions.
Depending on the demand this can continue for quite some time. It is also how whole-saling often works. The producer keeps thier liquid assests high to maximize construction while the traders make money from nowhere but sit on massive locked assets.
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Janus Cohen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:31:00 -
[55]
At the risk of sounding like walmart..... I like the idea of falling prices. Seeing that mining cost next to nothing, and that you can have a corp full of miners means that you could build and sell ships for any price that you want. If you buy minerals, well that sucks for you.... I think it would do wonders for EVE to have a corp that acts like Walmart.....lol could call it the sweatshoppe alliance Because when it is all said and done, it is about who has the most isk. |
Vyktor Abyss
EnTech
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:52:00 -
[56]
I liked your Moron A and Moron B discussion earlier.
But you forgot Moron C...
He/She's the moron who rather than sees an opportunity to cash in on others selling 'below value', by buying and reselling those maelstroms for a profit instead decides to come to the forum and whine about low prices in the wrong section of the forum as if people will care about the whine.
There's no such thing as a broken market.
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Rono Vizu
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:00:00 -
[57]
Yeah and tbh prices should have fallen a long time ago......
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Wieting Foyu
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.06.02 20:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Toria Nynys
Originally by: Wieting Foyu In another region 10-20 may sell per day but you are the lowest price more often so your 100 items are sold within a week at your asking price rather than 2 weeks of continuously lowering your price.
Not so much. Nobody is forcing you to play .01 isk games. If your profit margin and volume are large enough to play in Jita then undercut like you mean business -- by 5% or so. Resellers will pick up your goods and everyone's happy. You've traded a bit of profit for their time.
If your profit margin is so thin that you can't do that -- well, enjoy your slow sales and .01 isk fun.
My point is not the undercutting my point is not having to every second. So your slow sales are in Jita not any other market because you are undercut when you just go to the bathroom and 6 more items sell in that period of time that could have been yours. So in reality you are "stuck" with 6 more items you didn't have to have that would have sold in the same amount of time somewhere else with your computer off. In addition they are now lower than what you wanted since you are undercut by 3-4 others.
I ALWAYS undercut that last guy by 2-5%. I can always make a profit by just selling to the buy orders let alone leaving them up for sale. Making a profit isn't the issue. It is how long it takes for the amount of isk/hour. And my point is you make more isk/hour in other regions where you don't have to babysit and get undercut by 20 others so you can focus on looking for more items to buy/sell in what region or actually play the game instead of making it a pretty chatroom.
Yes Jita has very high volume.. But again using same example. 100 items get sold that day they are all not yours and at varying prices where the same item sells 20 a day in a different region and they are all yours at the original price.
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Becki
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Posted - 2008.06.03 16:02:00 -
[59]
Well i am a still a gimp Producer Wannabe (PE just @ 4) But i can produce this ship for about 115m with current ore prices from MMI. So 125m? Who cares? If you care, buy those 3 and resell them @ 140m = 4 happy people...
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Alex Redwidth
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Posted - 2008.06.03 18:19:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nekopyat If this is repeated over the 4 days it takes to sell the original 140M ship, Builder C has the potential for having 4 sales at 20M profit each, resulting in a net profit of 80M.
It isn't that simple. Builder is relying on trader to buy those ships to make a one day sale, or else they are stuck selling to the same 'one ship every 4 days' market the trader is. If they already bought and are waiting to sell one 120m ship, they aren't likely to keep buying them for the next four days.
This does however highlight why, as a manufacturer, it is extremely important to trade your goods across many regions, thus being able to take advantage not only of more buyers for your goods, but more speculative traders who'll be enticed into buying and relisting your goods.
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