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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:30:00 -
[31]
Finially to end this discussion everyone should go watch this and smile :D.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lj9Zmir79bs
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:31:00 -
[32]
Originally by: IonKnight Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 23:07:04 Well looks like the forums trolls are about i was hoping for an actual intelligent answer guess thats too hard.
OK, here are the real answers for about the 500 godzillionth time:
1. Crazy European taxes. Because of these taxes, when Europeans pay the same amount as Americans, CCP actually receives less from Europeans.
2. The US, being a huge and insular video game market, has a certain amount of market clout. Americans (right or wrong) inherently have a mistrust of "crazy moon money" (ie, the Euro, the Pound, the Peso, the Yen, you name it) and any effort to charge Americans in straight Euros will inevitably cost you a chunk of the oodles of money to be made here, falling dollar or no. Welcome to capitalism.
3. You could work around item 2 by having the subscription rate fluctuate with currency conversion rates, but that's just going to **** off customers in the same way. "OMG subscription increases every month! Screw that I'ma play WoW instead." Or conversely, if the dollar rebounds US rates would apparently need to be reduced; who the hell does that? Nobody, that's who.
Eventually if the dollar continues to suck eggs (as seems likely) CCP will probably have to do something like raise US rates. Every time you do that though, you lose a certain amount of business. So what you have to do is figure out the magic rate at which lost business doesn't outweigh increased revenue and stick to it; that rate varies depending on the product, but generally speaking once a month isn't it. For a completely discretionary item like a video game, that rate almost certainly isn't more than about once per year.
In short, CCP will make precisely as much money as they can (as modified by how good they are at figuring out how much that is). If the current scheme of things is keeping them fat and happy I'm sure they'll gladly suffer through any number of broken english tirades from you.
If it's any comfort to you (and I'm sure it isn't) CCP is far from being the only European company with worries from the falling dollar. A weak dollar makes it more difficult for anybody to make money exporting to the US, but there's still that pesky business of us being hopelessly addicted to fueling the consumer goods market by buying as much useless plastic crap as we can get our hands on -- that amount still being roughly describable as "a lot" but unfortunately also falling under the purview of "not as much as previously" thanks to rising fuel and food prices and the specter of a recession on the horizon. So basically these companies are damned if they do and damned if they don't right now, and are just going to have to suck it up until things improve. So much so that there are vast legions of people who don't live in the US or even want to trying to figure out how to get the dollar back on its feet.
There. All that stuff is true. Feel better now? I bet not. So keep paying your sub or gimme your stuff. ___________________________________________
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:52:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Alex Salas on 25/05/2008 23:53:47 1. Perhaps CCP did the cost benefit analysis and they feel its worth keeping USD subscriptions prices "low" for fear of discontinued accounts.
I live in U.S. and if CCP were to raise their rates I will look into how many accounts to close.
2. The cost of doing business in Europe is more expensive. Therefore the price differential is merely the savings that CCP enjoys and passes along to their US customer base.
3. Assuming the dollar strengthens I doubt you will champion that the US customers should pay less.
Edited for spelling
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:56:00 -
[34]
Firstly thanks for an intelligent response Quelque Chose but i have to correct u on a few things
"1. Crazy European taxes. Because of these taxes, when Europeans pay the same amount as Americans, CCP actually receives less from Europeans."
Firstly the tax does equate to the price difference i calculated atm as being around 97.5 dollars would be the correct tax rate (hehe had to get my accounting friend to make sure i was right)
"2. The US, being a huge and insular video game market, has a certain amount of market clout. Americans (right or wrong) inherently have a mistrust of "crazy moon money" (ie, the Euro, the Pound, the Peso, the Yen, you name it) and any effort to charge Americans in straight Euros will inevitably cost you a chunk of the oodles of money to be made here, falling dollar or no. Welcome to capitalism."
Good answer but doesnt WOW use USD and they don't seemed to have a problem (maybe they are but just cause of there large player base maybe)
"3. You could work around item 2 by having the subscription rate fluctuate with currency conversion rates, but that's just going to **** off customers in the same way. "OMG subscription increases every month! Screw that I'ma play WoW instead." Or conversely, if the dollar rebounds US rates would apparently need to be reduced; who the hell does that? Nobody, that's who."
However this problem could be sorted with a flat rate price then indicating that taxes will be added depending on ur location (every other website works this way, it's so that the company can't get in trouble with any taxman)
"Eventually ...... than about once per year."
However should an exchange rate change shouldn't the price go up for everyone? If u had one currency and the currency conversion changed shouldn't we all see an increase in price. Atm CPP has tried to offset there loses in the US by removing GTC's 90 day cards (effectively raising European prices). If for example we all paided in USD and the USD got worse we all pay a little more to cover it (instead of losing players like u said because of the magic rate.)
"In short, CCP will make precisely as much money as they can (as modified by how good they are at figuring out how much that is). If the current scheme of things is keeping them fat and happy I'm sure they'll gladly suffer through any number of broken english tirades from you."
yea im not trying to say they arent savy for doing it im just calling them sneaky.
"If it's any comfort to you (and I'm sure it isn't) CCP is far from being the only European company with worries from the falling......dollar back on its feet."
Very True however CPP changin to USD would actually help :D well not really but every little helps. I come across this problem every day as i am an english selling selling internationally and trying to cover for the exchange rate means my profit really is pushed.
I just think as considering they have decided to "standardise GTC's" why couldnt they do it with subs yea ppl will be annoyed at first but then once its in place we will never have this problem where europe pays more or US pays more etc.
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IonKnight
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Posted - 2008.05.25 23:58:00 -
[35]
Edited by: IonKnight on 25/05/2008 23:59:14 1. Perhaps CCP did the cost benefit analysis and they feel its worth keeping USD subscriptions prices "low" for fear of discontinued accounts.
I live in U.S. and if CCP were to raise their rates I will look into how many accounts to close.
good point that is fair i suppose however the two other comments arent correct what bugs me about it more is that when i live in one country i pay a certain price i move to a different country and i have to pay alot more even thought im still being paid in USD. It just seems crazy when im paying more for a thing that doesnt cost that much even with tax.
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:05:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Alex Salas on 26/05/2008 00:13:51
Originally by: IonKnight It just seems crazy when im paying more for a thing that doesnt cost that much even with tax.
I am not referring to just taxes. Businesses by law have to extend sweeter benefits to its European employees when compared to the US.
Benefits cost money and CCP will have to recoup it somehow vis-a-vis charging more.
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3card Monty
Spin Doctors
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Alex Salas
Originally by: IonKnight It just seems crazy when im paying more for a thing that doesnt cost that much even with tax.
If im not mistaken people paying in Euro's pay under Iclandic Vat..and its 24+% isnt it?
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Spenz
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:23:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Spenz on 26/05/2008 00:23:57 I dunno if it's just me but all I can seem to get from this thread is this:
Euro: Waah waaah wah I pay more waah waah USA pays less waaah waah I'm ignoring the fact that before the dollar tanked, the US players actually paid more than I did because CCP takes care of VAT with their flat rate, yet I didn't see those silly americans complain like I am now waah waah.
Why dont you concentrate on your own country huh? Complain to your government officals about the VAT tax and quit trying to change foreign economic policy on an online gaming forum.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Eizana
Scyanis
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:27:00 -
[39]
Because people are willing to pay 15 of whatever units for an mmo game. If you make them pay 25 units, that's what it will come up to if you convert 15 euro to dollars, a lot of american players will close their accounts and look to other mmo games to play. There are other games out there, perhaps not as good as EVE but still very entertaining, that will charge you less than $20 or be completely free.
Less accounts means less revenue for CCP which in turn means that your favorite game is going to be hurt. Your misplaced righteousness that someone is paying 5 euro less a month than you for a comptuter game (how dare they!) is preventing you from seeing this very obvious reason that what you're suggesting is going to hurt this game.
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Spaztick
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:32:00 -
[40]
Oh noes, I'm paying 10 cents a day more than that other guy! CCP is STEALING MY MILK MONEY!!! But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
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Jernau Riggs
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Posted - 2008.05.26 00:37:00 -
[41]
Most companies work on the basis of how much can we get away with charging people for some thing before they stop buying and ccp are no different.
currently they have 2 markets, the american market is paying too little cause of the weak dollar but they are afraid to increase there fees incase too many leave and/or less americans join, so they need to recover the balance from the EU market.
Now the eu market is already paying a high figure but they need to make sure all the eu people pay the higher price to make the whole thing balance, that means stopping us buying gtc with dollars In this case they figure that by now europeans are used to paying the higher prices and with this move they are not openly increasing the price.
On paper it looks like the best decision but in reality no one is silly enough to believe there company nonsence.
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Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Spenz Edited by: Spenz on 26/05/2008 00:23:57 I dunno if it's just me but all I can seem to get from this thread is this:
Euro: Waah waaah wah I pay more waah waah USA pays less waaah waah I'm ignoring the fact that before the dollar tanked, the US players actually paid more than I did because CCP takes care of VAT with their flat rate, yet I didn't see those silly americans complain like I am now waah waah.
Why dont you concentrate on your own country huh? Complain to your government officals about the VAT tax and quit trying to change foreign economic policy on an online gaming forum.
Because....
That would mean that Europe as whole would be forced to abandon the political indoctrination and belief that many Europeans hold so dear.
The belief that....
A man named George W. Bush(the Emperor)and **** Cheney(Darth Vader) are solely responsible for the economic woes of the entire world.
I don't want anybody to be treated unfairly. I wish we could all barter to play.
In my perfect world the British could pay CCP to play with a steaming plate of bangers and mash(Yumm),the Germans beer,I'll send CCP the cheese and the French can provide the whine...er umwine...etc.etc.
However this is not a my perfect world and...
"For somebody to win,somebody has to lose". I am sorry it has to be Europeans in this case.
If you hold the notion that Americans are dancing around and rejoicing from across the pond at your misfortune...you would be utterly incorrect.
Cheers...and I sincerly hope that collectivly that Europeans find a satisfactory and equitable solution for this issue.
And NO!contrary to rumor George W. Bush was not the president of the US during the War of 1812. Sorry..I had to(I would however be consumed with great mirth to see GWB in a powdered wig)
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Val Vympel
If you hold the notion that Americans are dancing around and rejoicing from across the pond at your misfortune...you would be utterly incorrect.
Speak for yourself
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Val Vympel
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:10:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Val Vympel on 26/05/2008 01:10:57
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Val Vympel
If you hold the notion that Americans are dancing around and rejoicing from across the pond at your misfortune...you would be utterly incorrect.
Speak for yourself
I had it in the back of my mind,when I wrote that part that you in particular would chime in.
Thanks for validating my instincts....
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Tellenta
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:21:00 -
[45]
I sincerly hope the OP gets his wish and he pays in dollars then the dollar makes a comeback to a point that he ends up paying more
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Taedrin
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:29:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Taedrin on 26/05/2008 01:31:26 Simply because at the time that CCP released EVE, the standard subscription rate for MMOs in the US was $15/month. In order for CCP to attract new players who are contemplating trying EVE out, or another game, CCP has to have a comparable price. CCP has not changed the prices since because they probably don't think they can get away with it.
So there you have it. That's the reason why US prices are lower than EU prices.
Sorry for your misfortune. Perhaps you'll get lucky and CCP will risk raising US rates to match EU rates? Because I HIGHLY doubt CCP will LOWER their prices for EU customers. That's just not the way companies work.
/EDIT:
Quote:
I sincerly hope the OP gets his wish and he pays in dollars then the dollar makes a comeback to a point that he ends up paying more
As a US citizen, I would love it if this happens. Unfortunately, I highly doubt the US economy will make a strong comeback anytime soon. And I also highly doubt it will ever reach the strength of the Euro (without an economy recession/depression in Europe at least, but I wouldn't wish that upon you guys).
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Sitthh
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:49:00 -
[47]
cause we won the revolutionary war?
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Tellenta
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:50:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tellenta on 26/05/2008 01:50:44 Yeah were screwed on the financial front for a little while
Luckily there are not people trying to capitalize on that point through the subscription rates of an on-line game. Oh wait... Jerks
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Tellenta
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sitthh cause we won the revolutionary war?
Yes winning our independence from Iceland is a much overlooked in U.S. history.
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.05.26 01:56:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 26/05/2008 01:58:09 i pay in $ from ú. Welcome to economics. Are you suggesting CCP should reprice for each change in the stockmarket? Awwww bless you.
Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
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Jakus Orellius
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain Will you also be whining when the Dollar makes a comeback?
LOL ... as if!
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Sidrat Flush
Life is Experience Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:05:00 -
[52]
What about the players living and earning in UK Sterling, who wouldn't know a Euro from a Eurovision song contest entry?
Apparently there are two ways to pay. Either Dollars or Euro's. It's not really a choice either way, especially when transferring UK pounds to where ever a currency conversion is still going to be required and who can bother with that every month of every other month??
Pay the money, make the choice, decide and I think everyone should realize that when you live and work in the UK you're gonna get royally corked when it comes to paying for things. It's not nice - it's the way it is.
Personally I think the VAT should have been withdrawn after they paid for whatever it was that it was introduced to pay for after the second world war I believe. That's a long time ago and not even loan sharks gives you that length of time to pay off a debt. Still it's not CCP's problem or cross to bear.
You and everyone else should realize that unless it goes up too fast and too often you will eventually bite the bullet and pay what ever it takes to play Eve - maybe not on a regular basis, but one or two months here and there. Admit it, it's true. You wouldn't like it, but that wouldn't stop you from doing it.
Life is about memories the more the better.
http://lifeisexperience.freeforums.org (because it's a small corp) |
Hannibal AntePorta
Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:07:00 -
[53]
Simple answer is because Europeans always get screwed in Electronic Entertainment. Just look at the costs of your next generation video game consoles.
Second reason is because you are willing to pay that much--supply/demand. k |
Raskor
Crossflow Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:10:00 -
[54]
The industry standard price for US based MMO's is 15$/month. If CCP increased the US$ price to 23$ (or whatever would be the equivalent to the current exchange rate between US$ and EU), I can practically guarantee the net result would be less revenue overall. They would make more for each account, but a huge number of US based players would quit.
And then the next step to make that up would be to raise the EU price to make up the difference. Thus costing the lot of you even more yet.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Estel Arador The reason: VAT and the dollar dropping like rock. The problem: US players are paying less than they should. The solution: Raise USD subscription prices.
If this is done, what will it have helped you? You want all US players to be screwed because you're getting a 'hard deal'?
Paying the same equals "screwed"?
Let me turn that around: why do you think that US players should pay less?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:22:00 -
[56]
Just for kicks I looked up the single month WoW subscription rates. Here's the skinny:
USD 14.99/ month EUR 12.99/ month
EUR 12.99 = USD 20.48 per today's exchange rate.
You guys also pay more for petroleum products, cigarettes, alcohol and electric guitars... which, when piled onto video games pretty much accounts for everything that makes life worth living doesn't it? Sucks to be you. But hey, look at it this way: you're not neurotic about sex, your beer isn't "like making love in a canoe," relatively few of you think the Earth is only 6000 years old and Germany has no speed limit (assuming you can actually afford a license). Isn't that worth a little extra? ___________________________________________
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Quelque Chose Just for kicks I looked up the single month WoW subscription rates. Here's the skinny:
USD 14.99/ month EUR 12.99/ month
EUR 12.99 = USD 20.48 per today's exchange rate.
You guys also pay more for petroleum products, cigarettes, alcohol and electric guitars... which, when piled onto video games pretty much accounts for everything that makes life worth living doesn't it? Sucks to be you. But hey, look at it this way: you're not neurotic about sex, your beer isn't "like making love in a canoe," relatively few of you think the Earth is only 6000 years old and Germany has no speed limit (assuming you can actually afford a license). Isn't that worth a little extra?
enjoy your recession
Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Spenz
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:24:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Estel Arador The reason: VAT and the dollar dropping like rock. The problem: US players are paying less than they should. The solution: Raise USD subscription prices.
If this is done, what will it have helped you? You want all US players to be screwed because you're getting a 'hard deal'?
Paying the same equals "screwed"?
Let me turn that around: why do you think that US players should pay less?
Better question would be, what makes you so special?
Or how about this: Why didn't the US complain about the euro's paying less a few years ago, yet you complain the very instant in which this happens to you?
Do you like complaining? Do you think you are special? Do you think CCP cares more about you because you are closer?
Jeez and you call the US arrogant.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Luca Muso
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Well they had to make up for the Marshall plan somehow.
This, absolutely pricelss.
On a more seriouse note, the fact is you wan't to pay less and that's why your posting here. You saw a chance to nock CCP to meet your own ends and you took it. Case closed.
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Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
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Posted - 2008.05.26 02:30:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
enjoy your recession
Man, I even counted your blessings for you and this is the thanks I get? Bitter, bitter Europe... ___________________________________________
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