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gammatude
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:32:00 -
[1]
Greetings all,
As a non-pirate noob I no real idea of what happens after you suicide gank a target in empire. Tonight I was the victim of such a gank and I am wondering both why and if an exploit was used post ganking.
One thing that I was wondering about is immediately after I was killed, the pirate logged. Is this considered an exploit? I have no idea so please fill me in.
The ganking occurred in The Forge on the Josameto side of the New Caldari / Josameto gate.
I was flying a mammoth that was empty at the time meaning that I was carrying no cargo.
The total value of my fittings was fairly small 5 x Cargo Expander II's salvager I Photon scattering asteroid scanner and 5 GSC's plus I think I had a few rounds of ammo and a 150mm rail gun in the hold.
Total value = about 4 million ISK meaning that about 2 million on average would survive to be scooped.
The ship was insured, my clone was updated, but I did lose a set of Basic implants so that was a $40 million hit to my wallet.
What puzzles me is why some pirate named Dave would gank me in Empire for only $2 million max?
The player has been active for 4 years so they are most likely not a noob. They are currently in an NPC corp so war targeting was not in effect.
Really can't figure this one out. Seems like there was very little to gain by ganking me in this situation
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Luyshin
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:37:00 -
[2]
It's entirely possible that the pirate made ISK on the gank. Just because he's an old character doesn't me that he has lots of ISK. Sometimes people go broke, and they have to do the little things to make ISK again.
And, no, this wasn't an exploit. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.26 07:48:00 -
[3]
Well, aren't T2 cargoholds woth more than 1 mil per piece ? So, it was more like 6 mil the very least. Still, that's not relevant... what's relevant is that you say you lost your pod too ?!? That doesn't sound at all like it was a suicide-gank for profit... there's no point in PODDING a target.
This person either had something personal against you, or was pretty damned bored.
Still, that's "working as expected". Why would he log off right after ? Well, probably he got what he wanted for the day.
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gammatude
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Posted - 2008.05.26 09:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Akita T Well, aren't T2 cargoholds woth more than 1 mil per piece ? So, it was more like 6 mil the very least. Still, that's not relevant... what's relevant is that you say you lost your pod too ?!? That doesn't sound at all like it was a suicide-gank for profit... there's no point in PODDING a target.
This person either had something personal against you, or was pretty damned bored.
Still, that's "working as expected". Why would he log off right after ? Well, probably he got what he wanted for the day.
Yeah my math was a bit off Cargo Expander II's are about 750,000 each so lets call that 3,750,000 for the expanders alone a million for the cloak and the rest was very pedestrian so value of ship was $6,000,000 ISK
As for having something personal against me, I'm a two month old empire carebear who has never killed anyone. I don't see that as a real possibility. As far as I can see this guy took the standing hit in exchange for about 3 million ISK. That just doesn't make sense to me still given the standings penalty. Pretty damned bored is looking like the best explanation so far
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gammatude
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Posted - 2008.05.26 09:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Luyshin It's entirely possible that the pirate made ISK on the gank. Just because he's an old character doesn't me that he has lots of ISK. Sometimes people go broke, and they have to do the little things to make ISK again.
And, no, this wasn't an exploit.
Cool, I was only wondering if it was an exploit in that he might have logged to avoid being concorded. Hey, I was in a vat of goo at the time. And when I say he logged right after I mean I got the notice of him logging within 30 seconds of him killing me. Based on the range at the time I was killed I don't even know if that would have given him time to scoop the modules.
BTW, I hope that if I play this game for 4 years that I'm a little bit beyond ganking empty industrials.
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Shintai
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.05.26 09:34:00 -
[6]
If you log quickly after the gank you can avoid the sec loss usually. And due to the screwed game mechanics you get payed full insurance etc. So the point is he dont even have to scan you, just attack and kill and hope for loot. Its simply...toooooooo easy and risk free. Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Kuranta
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.05.26 13:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Shintai If you log quickly after the gank you can avoid the sec loss usually. And due to the screwed game mechanics you get payed full insurance etc. So the point is he dont even have to scan you, just attack and kill and hope for loot. Its simply...toooooooo easy and risk free.
Can anyone confirm this?
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.05.26 14:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Agor Dirdonen on 26/05/2008 14:52:31
Originally by: Kuranta
Originally by: Shintai If you log quickly after the gank you can avoid the sec loss usually. And due to the screwed game mechanics you get payed full insurance etc. So the point is he dont even have to scan you, just attack and kill and hope for loot. Its simply...toooooooo easy and risk free.
Can anyone confirm this?
First time I hear about it. I'm pretty sure that if what Kuranta says is true, it's unintended and will be considered an exploit.
Most likely, the pirate logged his character off and logged on with an alt to collect the loot.
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gammatude
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Posted - 2008.05.26 16:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shintai If you log quickly after the gank you can avoid the sec loss usually. And due to the screwed game mechanics you get payed full insurance etc. So the point is he dont even have to scan you, just attack and kill and hope for loot. Its simply...toooooooo easy and risk free.
I checked the standings of the individual who attacked me this morning, less than 12 hours after the attack took place and his Security Status is set at 0.0. Given that he logged after the attack its not plausible that he went and did missions to raise his status following the attack.
It is of course possible that his security status was positive prior to attacking me and that it fell to 0.0 as a result of the attack. This would not be an exploit.
However, given the unconfirmed information above about logging letting you avoid the security status hit, it still seems fishy to me so I filed a petition for reimbursement
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Hennry Fromer
radiated space gerbils Shadow Donkeys
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Posted - 2008.05.26 18:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: gammatude
Originally by: Shintai If you log quickly after the gank you can avoid the sec loss usually. And due to the screwed game mechanics you get payed full insurance etc. So the point is he dont even have to scan you, just attack and kill and hope for loot. Its simply...toooooooo easy and risk free.
I checked the standings of the individual who attacked me this morning, less than 12 hours after the attack took place and his Security Status is set at 0.0. Given that he logged after the attack its not plausible that he went and did missions to raise his status following the attack.
It is of course possible that his security status was positive prior to attacking me and that it fell to 0.0 as a result of the attack. This would not be an exploit.
However, given the unconfirmed information above about logging letting you avoid the security status hit, it still seems fishy to me so I filed a petition for reimbursement
The forums aren't the place to talk it out especially if it's an exploit- test it on the test server or file a petition and have someone with the tools look at it to ensure game mechanics where followed.
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Xing Tu
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Posted - 2008.05.27 01:40:00 -
[11]
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but logging to avoid being concorded seems like a bad thing.
Whether or not that this is what happened, it got me to wondering. What controls are in the game to prevent this in general. As said Concord is there not for protection but for consequences. A suicide gank followed by logging out provides no consequences. Or do you get popped when you log back in?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.05.27 02:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xing Tu A suicide gank followed by logging out provides no consequences. Or do you get popped when you log back in?
All ships make an emergency warp but stay in the game world 2 minutes. A ship with PvP flag (i.e. one that just suicide-ganked somebody, for instance) will stay in space 15 minutes. In both cases, more than enough time for CONCORD to show up and toast that ship. When you log back in you should find yourself in a pod.
If you don't find yourself in a pod for some reason, no matter what reason, you're exploiting... expect GM punishment soon™.
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gammatude
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Posted - 2008.05.27 02:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Xing Tu A suicide gank followed by logging out provides no consequences. Or do you get popped when you log back in?
All ships make an emergency warp but stay in the game world 2 minutes. A ship with PvP flag (i.e. one that just suicide-ganked somebody, for instance) will stay in space 15 minutes. In both cases, more than enough time for CONCORD to show up and toast that ship. When you log back in you should find yourself in a pod.
If you don't find yourself in a pod for some reason, no matter what reason, you're exploiting... expect GM punishment soonÖ.
The pirate who logged may very well have lost his ship, but what is interesting is that he doesn't appear to have lost any security status. Unless, as I previously stated the security status penalty for the gank brought him down to security status 0.0 (perhaps even rounded)
Certainly the loss in security status is an intended consequence of ganking and avoiding it via logging would be considered an exploit if that is in fact what happened.
As stated before the petition has been filed.
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Bambi
Existentialist Collective
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Posted - 2008.05.27 13:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Xing Tu A suicide gank followed by logging out provides no consequences. Or do you get popped when you log back in?
All ships make an emergency warp but stay in the game world 2 minutes. A ship with PvP flag (i.e. one that just suicide-ganked somebody, for instance) will stay in space 15 minutes. In both cases, more than enough time for CONCORD to show up and toast that ship. When you log back in you should find yourself in a pod.
If you don't find yourself in a pod for some reason, no matter what reason, you're exploiting... expect GM punishment soonÖ.
This is my understanding off how the 'logoffski' exploit was fixed a couple of years ago. The 15 min timer keeps your ship in system even if you log off, alt+f4, reset PC etc. EVE is dead, long live EVE!
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:42:00 -
[15]
"The ganking occurred in The Forge on the Josameto side of the New Caldari / Josameto gate"
I'm not ingame or familiar with that space. Is Josameto low-sec or not?
If Josameto is low sec, then you probably were unlucky enough to run into the most bored idiot in all of Eve. If its Secure Space...how did he survive long enough to not only kill your ship but pod you too?
Good Luck with your petition. If there is indeed a loophole where you can avoid a Security Status hit then it needs to be closed ASAP.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
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Posted - 2008.06.06 22:01:00 -
[16]
Jos is a .6, two jumps from Jita. Used to be a nice quiet system a year and a half ago, but about a year ago started going downhilll and over populated....
What weapon killed you? Was it a smartbomb? That could explain the pod kill.
I also wonder if the old "log the alt to force the main off" trick will allow you to escape concord's wrath or if that has been fixed Have'nt done much suiciding but I also haven't seen anyone get away while watching them. I *have* seen Concord blowing up a suicider's wreck after a gank, was gleefully surprised.
I would bet for the "Log the alt in to take the stuff" posted above...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.06 22:08:00 -
[17]
What has probebly happend was the ganker was smartboming someone else and you got caught in the blast.
Sometimes, you even get people suiciding ships for a laugh or to claim insurance. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.06.06 23:29:00 -
[18]
If you lost your pod you probably got caught by a smart bomber. You probably wouldn't have lost your ship if it had been tanked at all (a single EM hardener doesn't really count).
On my Mammoth I run 3x medium extenders, passive EM hardener, and a ship scanner (ship scanning doesn't cause aggression and is good for spotting potential troublemakers in belts). Won't save me from a real camp but it does keep me from getting ganked for my modules and GSCs by a single cruiser fit for alpha-strike.
Keep training as well - a Mastodon is the T2 varient of the Mammoth - it holds a smidge more cargo (29K when fitted with a rack of cargo expanders and two cargo rigs), and, more importantly, has a much, much stronger tank (I run my Mastodon with two invuln fields and a large extender), allowing it to carry much more valuable cargo with less risk.
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