Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 04:34:00 -
[1]
BULLETS
Discuss kkthnx
Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
|
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 04:44:00 -
[2]
It's not bullet size > all. It's bullet size + velocity > all. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 04:44:00 -
[3]
I'm going to pick up a quote heard from my brother:
"Fighting the wars of tomorrow, with yesterday's weapons, today"
1|2|3|4|5 |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 04:48:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 27/05/2008 04:49:38 And that's why our magazines hold 30
Though on a more serious note: Yeah... 5.56mm sucks, bring back the 30-06
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 04:56:00 -
[5]
Two words : "nuclear" and "handgrenade"
1|2|3|4|5 |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 05:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T Two words : "nuclear" and "handgrenade"
Actually, we've been asking for tactical nuclear rounds for our M203s for years now
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 06:01:00 -
[7]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 27/05/2008 06:05:03 i'm a huge fan of the .30-06 round, one of my favs. 7.62 is the caliber the guy in the article was toting (very very similar)
i own a .357 i never plan on using (but if i ever need to, i shouldn't need to fire more than once). so i not only respect the 'stopping power' argument, but i back it up w/ my wallet :P
that being said, there is nothing wrong w/ 5.56. though i'm not a huge fan of the m4 it does its job, and while it may not have the stopping power they are bragging about, it does have its advantages.
my opinion is anyone entering buildings should either have a tactical shotgun or a good submachine gun. but the military doesn't feel the same way :P
the m4 allows for the versatility of being both compact (like a submachine gun) while having the ability to fire at a longer range (as it should, its an assault rifle). it is a good weapon, we dont have our guys running around w/ bb guns in iraq.
the m4 isn't all our guys use either. one example, the 249 (saw) is a great weapon as well, and there are more advantages when you look at a weapon like this in the full line of the arsenal we use, like the m249 can fire the same rounds as a m4 (nice little logistics bonus in the field). another weapon like this is the SCAR (if anything replaces the m4 across the board, the scar will be it), and those 2 aren't the only ones.
bottom line, there are pros and cons. how about this? higher caliber means more recoil, means less accuracy when firing a lot of bullets fast. too many sides to the argument than i can fit in this post, they fit in the article and well beyond shear round caliber.
i'm no expert, but the article seems slanted to me. but i'm also drunk and ranting ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 06:26:00 -
[8]
the 249 is a great weapon when it works... and that's not often
SAW gunner for a year and a half
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 06:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny the 249 is a great weapon when it works... and that's not often
SAW gunner for a year and a half
i've used them and liked what i saw, but nothing past a few brief stints on the range. (they were being phased in as i was being phased out, lol.)
i never spent time in the field so i'm very sure there are plenty of ppl on these forums (like yourself) that can give us a much more informed opinion.
if i can go back to my last post, i think the scar looks like a great weapon. the big brother does the 7.62 which would fit your call for the .30-06 size and the suggestion for more stop power any input on that thing? outside of bs'ing w/ ppl and reading i never seen one more or less fired one ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most |
Fink Angel
The Merry Men
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 06:56:00 -
[10]
Disclaimer: From my limited knowledge, being from England and not knowing too much about weapons.
Why isn't there something like a .50 calibre personal weapon on the battlefield? From what I've read and seen those things take down pretty much anything with one shot.
|
|
HankMurphy
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fink Angel Edited by: Fink Angel on 27/05/2008 06:58:39 Disclaimer: From my limited knowledge, being from England and not knowing too much about weapons.
Why isn't there something like a .50 calibre personal weapon on the battlefield? From what I've read and seen those things take down pretty much anything with one shot.
Edit: And what is .50 calibre by the way? Is that half an inch? Diameter?
caliber is approx. inches. its roughly half an inch in diameter ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most |
Spaztick
Canadian Assault Network
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:18:00 -
[12]
We really need to go to metric. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 27/05/2008 07:35:41
Originally by: Spaztick We really need to go to metric.
um, they do. 7.62mm , 5.56mm (~.308 and ~.22)
edit: but diameter isn't the end of the story. (ie: a 5.56 round doesn't = what you would know as a .22 round) ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:37:00 -
[14]
A personal .50?
Hope it has a 3 round burst mode
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Fink Angel
The Merry Men
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny A personal .50?
Hope it has a 3 round burst mode
Isn't a Desert Eagle handgun a .50 calibre? So it is possible to shoe horn that bullet into a personal weapon. How many rounds does a Desert Eagle hold? Where does a .45 fit into the mix? What does the term "parabellum" mean, as I hear that applied to 9mm rounds?
|
Valentina Gallatoire
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 07:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Isn't a Desert Eagle handgun a .50 calibre? So it is possible to shoe horn that bullet into a personal weapon. How many rounds does a Desert Eagle hold? Where does a .45 fit into the mix? What does the term "parabellum" mean, as I hear that applied to 9mm rounds?
Hello Fink. I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Wikipedia.
|
Keorythe
Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:09:00 -
[17]
The title of the article is frankly misleading and the story only compounds the confusion.
The M14 battle rifle fires a 7.62x51 round. It is a full metal jacketed non-fragmenting bullet. Since it is non-fragmenting and only does crushing damage the largest hole it creates is from when its tumbled and standing sideways. Thats only a slight larger than the tip of your pinky finger to the first knuckle. Hydrostatic damage only affects brain and liver tissue which a hit to either one is usually almost fatal anyway (this is what you see when you shoot at clay and it over expands). Basically hydrostatic damage is when some heavy and fast hits a surface causing it to over expand but then later collapsed again. This is the same effect you see when you drop a rock into the water and you watch the water open up then close back on the rock. Since soft tissue does not reach its expansion limit due to the 7.62x51's power it merely causes internal bruising and nothing more. The advantage of the 7.62x51 is that it is heavier and has more power to penetrate through cover and cinder blocks. The major downside is that it way ALOT more than assault rifle ammo. Contrary to popular belief it does not have more "knockdown" power which is a fake term used to impressed non-military types.
The M16 series of assault rifles fires the 5.56x45 round. It is a full metal jacketed fragmenting bullet. If the bullet hits soft flesh while travelling at least 2700 fps (it exists the barrel at roughly 3100fps) it will tumble and the break into pieces (fragmentation) after a short distance. In this case hydrostatic damage does come into play. As the soft tissue is expanding it is shredded by the metal fragments causing additional tearing. The result is an area the size of your fist turned into a pulp. The bullet loses enough speed to not fragment between 100m-150m depending on barrel length. Since most combat especially urban happens within 50m you're good to go. The downside is that a small fast bullet dumps its energy into the first thing it hits. This is why the 5.56x45 has a hard time with cinder blocks and other dense surfaces. However, it does pass through car doors with ease.
Myths: If a 7.62 hits your leg or arm it will tear it off but the 5.56 will not. FALSE Both rounds will make nice small holes and nothing more as there is barely enough meat to allow tumbling. This changes if either strikes a bone in which case both will do serious damage.
It takes multiple shots to drop someone with a 5.56x45. FALSE This was actually said about the 7.62x51 when it first replaced the .30'06. In actually the results were more often attributed to lousy marksmanship and hits to non-vital areas. Wound characteristics found by medical examiners during both Vietnam and Somalia showed devestating wounds in the chest and head areas. The largest urban legend to stem from this was the Mogudishu bullet kid. Everyone and their mom heard this rumor at some point in time or knows someone who thinks they saw it happen.
Soldiers are unhappy with the 5.56x45. FALSE So far Vietnam vet gun magazine editors and bullet salesmen are the ones propogating this myth. Most of the armchair generals aren't the ones lugging the ammo but are more than happy to sell it to the government for a multi-million dollar profit. SOCOM groups always have a few heavy gunners packing some 7.62x51. However, most still carry lots of 5.56x45. Lots and lots.
The 7.62x51 doesn't weigh that much. FALSE The 7.62x51 weighs so much that for every 100 rounds you can carry approx. 300 rounds of 5.56x45.
Really good marksmanship with the 7.62x51 makes up for the lack of ammo and other deficiences. FALSE The same rules apply for the 5.56x45. If you use good marksmanship and put your rounds on target you will drop your enemy solid while still having extra rounds to spare and less weight (which will probably be used up by heavier armor).
|
Fink Angel
The Merry Men
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Valentina Gallatoire
Originally by: Fink Angel
Isn't a Desert Eagle handgun a .50 calibre? So it is possible to shoe horn that bullet into a personal weapon. How many rounds does a Desert Eagle hold? Where does a .45 fit into the mix? What does the term "parabellum" mean, as I hear that applied to 9mm rounds?
Hello Fink. I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Wikipedia.
Heh, fair point, I thought that myself when I was typing all that lot in. I'll come back when I've read up somewhat.
|
Reven Cordelle
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:14:00 -
[19]
Maybe they could update to the SCAR-H for those times when you need a bit of extra girth on your bullets, from what i've heard the SCAR is a decent weapon.
Either that or that gun that technically looks like an M4, but fires 50 calibre rounds. Can't remember the name of that, its pretty much a full auto Desert Eagle anyway. That'll have some stopping power.
There is always the Remington 870MCS Masterkey of course..
|
Keorythe
Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Fink Angel Disclaimer: From my limited knowledge, being from England and not knowing too much about weapons.
Why isn't there something like a .50 calibre personal weapon on the battlefield? From what I've read and seen those things take down pretty much anything with one shot.
The M-99 is a cut down single shot rifle that is as lightweight as you are going to get for a .50 caliber weapon. It weighs 9.5kg (20 lbs)empty. 100 rounds of M2 ball .50 caliber ammuniton is roughly 16.5kg (33 lbs). Thats just the rifle and its ammo, that doesn't include your field kit, armor, and other stuff.
Pistol rounds are easily stopped by soft body armor. Pistols, even extremely large calibers, don't have as much power behind them as a rifle. Pistols lose alot of their power after 15m.
|
|
Keorythe
Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Either that or that gun that technically looks like an M4, but fires 50 calibre rounds. Can't remember the name of that, its pretty much a full auto Desert Eagle anyway. That'll have some stopping power.
There is always the Remington 870MCS Masterkey of course..
You're thinking of the .50 Beowulf. It fires a .50 custom pistol cartridge from a heavily modified M16 platform. Its not really that great and the rounds weigh more than the 7.62x51. Nice for hunting pigs or deer at short ranges but not much else.
The 870 is a shotgun. It has even worse range than a pistol and the bullets weigh even more!
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 08:41:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 27/05/2008 08:44:12
[Quote] "One of the things I've discovered in guns is that damned near everyone is an expert," he says. "And they all have opinions."
I don't see it here at all
From experience... I carried the 5.56x45mm (M16) and the 7.62x54mm (M40a1) and from my experiences I'd go with the 7.62 round due to it's penetration (urban battlefields require it). Except when room clearing, M4 is still the king of that
() () (â;..;)â (")(") |
Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 11:24:00 -
[23]
Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.
|
Gyfrex
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 11:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Considering you ain't fired a gun in your life mate. You should probably shush ---
|
Janus Duo
Divine Retribution
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 12:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
CS pro wannabe detected!
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 12:24:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 27/05/2008 12:26:19 Zephyr was obviously joking around (I think, and hope) but if I was going into urban combat I would want an AK-74u, OR some sort of .45 SMG that never jammed (if such a thing exists).
.50c for actual combat purposes is a HUGE waste of time.
|
P'uck
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 12:26:00 -
[27]
i thought the 5.56 choice was a teamplay choice?
ie, can carry more rounds, can provide suppression fire for longer than when carrying heavier rounds?
either way, what you guys need is a change of politics and not new ammunition.
|
Draeca
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 14:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Why dont you nooby US soldiers aim for the head? I'm sure that would solve any issues over bullet size etc. But then I guess you Yanks ain't been to aim school, so my suggestion may just be too hard for you.
Did you know that wounding your target is much more effective than just killing it? That way you will take some of his mates out of the game for a while, because they have to take him to a cover and give first aid etc. ___
|
Zephyr Rengate
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 15:01:00 -
[29]
Such easy trolling here.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.
|
Arvald
Project Nemesis
|
Posted - 2008.05.27 15:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T Two words : "nuclear" and "handgrenade"
Originally by: Liang Nuren
There are no dangerous ships, there are dangerous people. IIRC, you are one of them.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |