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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:30:00 -
[1]
im not going to put any suggestions here, god knows there is enough around (good and bad). however, for all you miners out there who, like me, wish there was something beyond hulk (rorqual doesn't count, its not a mining ship), or even a few new skills or something, this thread is for you and me to ask that mining be looked over, and given some fresh air.
if you want to post ideas for improvements, feel free. however, this is more for people to pledge their support, and force the issue to be looked at, rather then ignored.
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 06:30:00 -
[2]
im not going to put any suggestions here, god knows there is enough around (good and bad). however, for all you miners out there who, like me, wish there was something beyond hulk (rorqual doesn't count, its not a mining ship), or even a few new skills or something, this thread is for you and me to ask that mining be looked over, and given some fresh air.
if you want to post ideas for improvements, feel free. however, this is more for people to pledge their support, and force the issue to be looked at, rather then ignored.
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.27 08:47:00 -
[3]
noone?
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Abydos Lanti
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Posted - 2008.05.27 11:47:00 -
[4]
Id like to see the Orca finished. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=622525
the Hulk is a great mining platform though, and, in my opinion is fine. Although I wouldnt mind another low slot. |
Piitaq
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.05.27 11:59:00 -
[5]
As a miner I can ofcourse only support that the miners get some love
I do have a suggestion also. I would propose that if you get very high faction standings to a NPC their people would leave you alone. So if you where able to run missions for Sansha nation, and get your faction standing above 5.0 (or something higher/lower) you would be a "friend" of theirs, and you could mine in their belts without them shooting at you.
I know alot of people will oppose this, especially the non miners. But I do think it makes sence, if you are able to work for someone for such a long time, and they hold you in such high esteem, that they dont shoot at you when they see you in their area. (this could be mixed up, with other NPCs roaming their enemies territories, so you cant really go entirely AFK)
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steejans nix
0beron Construct
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Posted - 2008.05.27 12:33:00 -
[6]
Edited by: steejans nix on 27/05/2008 12:35:41 Definatly support the fact that mining and in particular the hulk needs a boost.
It takes a lot more sp's to get a decently skilled hulk with the refineng to back it up than to get lvl 4 mission capable ship, abeit one with a not great tank or dps but more than good enough to run lvl 4's.
I personally would put high sec minig in a hulk in the same isk per hour bracket as lvl 3 missions (while Hulk got to get gang bonus's and a dedicated hauler as well) it should be closer to lvl 4's as you need several level 5 skills to get a decent hulk which is more of an investment in time etc. I agree mining needs a boost more than a Rorqual or Orca as these are basically command ships with a way to get ore together in belts for the haulers these are a boost to mining it just a fact that you need a fairly large fleet of hulks etc to make it worthwhile running one as the rorqual pilot could be mining or hauling himself thus adding to the yield.
Would suggest the "elite mining barge" needs more elite about it, it only really got one bonus the 3% increase in yield or ice cycle time per lvl where a lot of t2 ships got 2 bonus's, Perhaps add a couple of slots for mining links to give it a role other than just a mining ship.
Think everyone would agree mining needs some love, just there's a lot more "flavours of the month" around at the moment with other issues that i expect this will be largely overlooked.
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.28 01:13:00 -
[7]
cheers for the link to the orca thread BTW, i havent been able to find it.
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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 02:11:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Allaria Kriss on 28/05/2008 02:11:16 Mining needs some attention simply because it can't compete with missions.
I started as a miner. I can still crank out ore with the best of them. However, I stopped focusing on mining because, well, the pay sucked.
Hulk Mining Pros: Relatively safe Effortless Consistent income
Hulk Mining Cons: Painfully boring High skill requirement Expensive startup cost Secure Containers are too small Ore thieves and can flippers Gangs/Alts virtually required
Compare this to level four missions, where I can make 10 million ISK in bounties alone on a single Worlds Collide (Plus the possibility of some faction gear) working with a corpmate with even less risk than I have mining, as well as getting standings, salvage, and loot (Which I can sell, use, or smelt into minerals) for it. In my experience, I'm also far more likely to get my can flipped or my ore stolen (5 times in the last 3 months) than I am to get ninja-salvaged (Once).
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.28 03:02:00 -
[9]
Rorqual isn't a mining ship? There is a point in any MMO beyond which you cannot advance without getting organized and working together with other players. This is how it should be.
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 03:23:00 -
[10]
Joe, your cluelessness astounds me. That or you're being a troll. Given the negativity of almost everything I've seen you post, I'm inclined to think the latter. But for the benefit of the doubt, I will spell this out for you.
Rorqual is not a mining ship. It is a factory ship. It supports mining operations, but beyond storage of ore, contributes relatively little to the output of that mining operation.
Your second comment is just out of touch with reality and is an obvious troll. Of all the ways to make ISK in EVE, mining is the one that requires support the soonest, and requires the most support, to stay profitable. You can easily solo missions in a Raven for months and make a killing, but solo mining in a Hulk is a joke.
A good mining operation NEEDS:
1x miner 1x hauler
and SHOULD HAVE:
3x miners (At least) 1x hauler (2 if they're alts, or inexperienced)
and BENEFITS STRONGLY FROM:
More miners (The more the better) More haulers (If more miners are present) 1x commandship (Mining Foreman mindlink and all three mining modules) 2x interceptors (To kill can-flippers)
Outside of empire wardecs, and maybe COSMOS missions, mining is about the only thing in high-sec that you want a good-sized fleet for. And mining isn't a group operation?
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.28 03:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Rorqual isn't a mining ship? There is a point in any MMO beyond which you cannot advance without getting organized and working together with other players. This is how it should be.
rorquals cannot be used in high sec.
now, before you go on with that "you should go to 0.0" crap. ive been there. i made a deficit of hundreds of millions over the time i was there. i have no interest in it.
so i mine in high sec, and as has been said, its a joke. i dont like fighting, but if i was more combat inclined, i would do lvl 4's in a typhoon (i can tank lvl 4's in my phoon) and farm them solo.
if you can solo in PvP, and solo in PvE, why is mining special?
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Ameliorate
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Posted - 2008.05.28 11:52:00 -
[12]
There isn't really any reason why mining shouldn't be improved.
---- Train skills, check mail and pay bills from your mobile: Support my CSM issue |
Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.05.28 12:03:00 -
[13]
What kind of ship do you suggest? Mining Capital that can hit smoething like siege and mine 500% more ore? Pls be more specific and ppl that just screamed "YEAH" when you dont like it do something else.
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.28 12:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 What kind of ship do you suggest? Mining Capital that can hit smoething like siege and mine 500% more ore? Pls be more specific and ppl that just screamed "YEAH" when you dont like it do something else.
i dont really think that we need a capital. but when you think about it, right now we have mining battlecruisers, more or less.
theres the mining frigs, the mining cruisers are better. the ore ships are better again. so, we have hit BC level, with command ship upgrade. wheres the next level up?
im thinking that what we mainly need is a ship that can both fit cargo expanders and mining upgrades. lets face it, right now with hulks, you can have an 8000m3 hold, and fast mining, or mine barely better then a covator, but have tonnes more hold.
it seems to me that these two attributes are not unlike the DPS and tank in combat ships. we had BC's that could either DPS or tank, but not both (whitness the prophecy and the harbinger). but when you move on to a battleship, it can both tank better and do the same or greater DPS then a maxed out BC. id like to see something like this for ore.
not cheap, looking at 150mil, same as a tier 3 BS. large, ungainly, much slower warp then a normal BS. but able to haul a large amount of ore and hold it. maybe up to 25,000m3. the idea is that like the hulk, its good both in high sec, and 0.0 provided you are within allied space, but not the kind of ship you would want to wander though hostile territory or low sec with.
however, definitely not a capital. no jump drive, no compression module.
also, it should be as hard to train to this from covator as it was to get from retriever to covator.
ideally make it more fragile then the hulk, as its a t1 ship and the hulk is t2.
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.05.28 13:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 What kind of ship do you suggest? Mining Capital that can hit smoething like siege and mine 500% more ore? Pls be more specific and ppl that just screamed "YEAH" when you dont like it do something else.
i dont really think that we need a capital. but when you think about it, right now we have mining battlecruisers, more or less.
theres the mining frigs, the mining cruisers are better. the ore ships are better again. so, we have hit BC level, with command ship upgrade. wheres the next level up?
im thinking that what we mainly need is a ship that can both fit cargo expanders and mining upgrades. lets face it, right now with hulks, you can have an 8000m3 hold, and fast mining, or mine barely better then a covator, but have tonnes more hold.
it seems to me that these two attributes are not unlike the DPS and tank in combat ships. we had BC's that could either DPS or tank, but not both (whitness the prophecy and the harbinger). but when you move on to a battleship, it can both tank better and do the same or greater DPS then a maxed out BC. id like to see something like this for ore.
not cheap, looking at 150mil, same as a tier 3 BS. large, ungainly, much slower warp then a normal BS. but able to haul a large amount of ore and hold it. maybe up to 25,000m3. the idea is that like the hulk, its good both in high sec, and 0.0 provided you are within allied space, but not the kind of ship you would want to wander though hostile territory or low sec with.
however, definitely not a capital. no jump drive, no compression module.
also, it should be as hard to train to this from covator as it was to get from retriever to covator.
ideally make it more fragile then the hulk, as its a t1 ship and the hulk is t2.
Ok so what you are looking for is a more yield more cargo but fraglie
I cant see how this would benefit the game itself, beside that some players that would fly bigger ships in high sec belts and that with a bigger hold ppl can mine solo cause they can spare the hauelr.
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Piitaq
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.05.28 14:52:00 -
[16]
I like Sir Substance proposal for a new mining ship.
I dont know why people are so against solo mining?!?
Its allrigth to solo missions and it is allright to solo rat in belts, but for some odd reason mining is a no no.
Ofcourse it should be more beneficial to do things as a team, which it already is.
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Athre
The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2008.05.28 15:41:00 -
[17]
Being someone who loves mining I would like to remind you what it was like before hulks
0.0 mining, in an APOC with 6 lasers running, oh the beauty of the ore and the hum of the lasers... and draging the GDF ore to the jet can every 30 seconds or less as you're rotating the lasers so you dont over fill the cargo bay with a single minutes mining. That was in 2004. I for one am very pleased in the advancements of mining since that time. Mining Barges, Exhumers, specialty ships, Ice mining and so on, those the t2 mining crystals breaking sounds like a PITA to be quite honest. I am interested to see what else can be done to improve this profession :D
What I see as an area that can be expanded on... Mining missions with lovely gases around broken roids... yet you can not harvest the gases? or the lovely orange or green rocks with in? Not even the twinkling gases around some rocks.
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Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.29 06:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Piitaq I like Sir Substance proposal for a new mining ship.
I dont know why people are so against solo mining?!?
Its allrigth to solo missions and it is allright to solo rat in belts, but for some odd reason mining is a no no.
Ofcourse it should be more beneficial to do things as a team, which it already is.
the real tricky thing about a solo mining ship is the macro miners will use it as well. i think it can be done, but it is a fine line between improving the market again and simply given macro miners another tool to kill the economy.
that said, i really don't like the prevailing attitude that the only way to fix that is to make new mining ships restricted to low sec. there is and must be a balance, all it will take is the right person at the right time to come up with an idea.
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Kasarandon
Suzaku Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.05.29 10:50:00 -
[19]
Make mining an interactive activity, make it interesting. support your miners, they mine the stuff that makes the ships that pew pewers pew in
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steejans nix
0beron Construct
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Posted - 2008.05.29 13:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sir Substance
also, it should be as hard to train to this from covator as it was to get from retriever to covator.
ideally make it more fragile then the hulk, as its a t1 ship and the hulk is t2.
We already done the hard time training into the hulk which as a t2 ship should outmine any T1 mining vesel. It's the hulk that needs a boost, just to bring it up somewhere near the isk you'd get from lvl 4 missioning.
Perhaps make a ship to fit inbetween the retriever and covetor as there is quite a gap skill wise there.
Also any argument someone use's saying macro miner's will use it etc is a problem with macro's and shouldn't hold back developement of the mining profession
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Kis Kecheri
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.05.29 13:57:00 -
[21]
The most important boost miners could get would be the elimination of Macro-Miners and isk gatherers/sellers/buyers in general.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.29 16:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kis Kecheri The most important boost miners could get would be the elimination of Macro-Miners and isk gatherers/sellers/buyers in general.
Isk gatherers/buyers/sellers? You mean all players/GTC sellers/GTC buyers? I agree that hunting macros would help miners(though I doubt they could do it all that much better than they are now), but your suggestion that the movement of isk is bad for the game is just silly. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.05.29 21:59:00 -
[23]
make the ore 10% of current size and mining laser yield 10% of current or something similar so that we don't overflow the cargohold in 6 minutes. haulers are still very helpful but not as required.
Add larger mining drones to train up. say scout drone V and mining drone V or something for t2 medium mining drones.
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Gone'Postal
Scoopex The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.05.29 22:02:00 -
[24]
Agreed, Miners need some kind of love
Questions, Comments, Problems, Please address them to the CSM.. Now CCP Never have to visit the forum. -V8I-
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Gotrek65
Industrial Warlords Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.30 00:38:00 -
[25]
/signed to the max
/emote still waiting for a thread to suggest fixing asteroid belts
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Czanthria
Ad Astra Vexillum
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Posted - 2008.05.30 04:22:00 -
[26]
-- Knowledge is Power! |
Thoram
Twin Sun Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.30 04:41:00 -
[27]
would be nice to have either some bigger ships to mine with with the proper booster above the hulk, or tweak the hulk to maybe have 4 highslots so the jump from a covetor to a hulk is more desireable. ----------------------------------------------- Recruiting manager. Contact me if you wish to join TSS or learn more about us. ----------------------------------------------- |
Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 09:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Thoram would be nice to have either some bigger ships to mine with with the proper booster above the hulk, or tweak the hulk to maybe have 4 highslots so the jump from a covetor to a hulk is more desireable.
indeed. i was rather surprised at how little my yeald jumped from covator to hulk. it went up about 100m3 per minute, which is bugger all when your pulling in over 1000m3 a min already in a covator. the only desirable thing with the hulk is a mild tanking potential and a bigger hold.
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Brazero
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.30 10:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gotrek65 /signed to the max
/emote still waiting for a thread to suggest fixing asteroid belts
Exactly, why better mining ships. The belts are gone, the roids are just peanuts etc. etc.
If you are located in deep 0.0 there still might be a roid or two worth mining, but that's about it. Low sec and highsec empire space is empty.
Originally by: Rodj Blake CCP are planning to give Amarrians some "oomph"
Unfortunately, "oomph" is the sound one makes when kicked repeatedly in the ribs.
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Rich Mann
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.05.30 10:32:00 -
[30]
I agree with what's been said. Particularly about not being able to effectively solo mine. Can flippers say that I we easily avoid this by having a hauler alt but why should I have to pay for two accounts just to make less isk than mission runners?
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