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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
126
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Posted - 2012.03.08 00:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think it's kind of lame that an un-sieged dread does less dps than a battleship. I also think that Naglfars using missile launchers is kinda of lame.
I think dread damage out of siege should do 1.5x - 2x the dps of a battleship. It's not that much to ask considering the hulls cost ~10x+ as much. Cut the siege module bonuses to keep sieged DPS the same.
Change the Nag back to using 2x turrets with a damage bonus buff to keep DPS in-line with the 3-turret dreads. Drop the missile hardpoints. Possibly drop a high-slot as well. Alternatively, give it bonuses to missiles and guns, and leave it with two of each hardpoint but 3 highs, thus allowing pilots to choose missiles or guns depending on their preferences (this fits with the Minmatar "versatility" gimmick).
Dreads are underpowered as it is, and adding 50-100% to their un-seiged damage isn't going to break the game. People might even use them more! |
Kitt JT
Crimson Empire. Nulli Secunda
22
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Posted - 2012.03.08 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I think it's kind of lame that an un-sieged dread does less dps than a battleship. I also think that Naglfars using missile launchers is kinda of lame.
I think dread damage out of siege should do 1.5x - 2x the dps of a battleship. It's not that much to ask considering the hulls cost ~10x+ as much. Cut the siege module bonuses to keep sieged DPS the same.
Change the Nag back to using 2x turrets with a damage bonus buff to keep DPS in-line with the 3-turret dreads. Drop the missile hardpoints. Possibly drop a high-slot as well. Alternatively, give it bonuses to missiles and guns, and leave it with two of each hardpoint but 3 highs, thus allowing pilots to choose missiles or guns depending on their preferences (this fits with the Minmatar "versatility" gimmick).
Dreads are underpowered as it is, and adding 50-100% to their un-seiged damage isn't going to break the game. People might even use them more!
e: I guess another approach you could take would be to add a new class of capship that's basically a mini-titan, whose only job is to use capital weapons and do 2-2.5k dps. No siege. This seems way more complicated though.
The reason for the **** out-of-seige damage was originally implemented because ccp correctly figured out when they introduced caps that it would force capitalship deaths, by forcing opposing fleets to seige.
To be honest, right now, as it is, ccp shouldn't change regular caps (as they're actually relatively balanced). The problem atm is supers. And ccp shouldn't change regular caps until they change supers.
As for your comments on the nag. I think you're just sad that its not the best dread. Dreads should NOT have utility highs (as this would enable them to fit neuts/cloaks without sacraficing damage) The nag used to have a bonus to both missiles and guns. That was changed, because capital missiles kinda suck anyways. You're proposing a buff... yet you'd half the damage of a nag by removing two of its highs, so it can only use 2 weapons?
tl;dr Not yet No |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
126
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Posted - 2012.03.08 01:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:As for your comments on the nag. I think you're just sad that its not the best dread. Dreads should NOT have utility highs (as this would enable them to fit neuts/cloaks without sacraficing damage) The nag used to have a bonus to both missiles and guns. That was changed, because capital missiles kinda suck anyways. You're proposing a buff... yet you'd half the damage of a nag by removing two of its highs, so it can only use 2 weapons?
tl;dr Not yet No
Can you sod off if you're not even going to read the post? I said set the Nag up to use only TWO guns, DROP the fourth high, and change the damage bonus on the hull to make it do the same DPS as a 3-turret dread (CCP have already stated that re-modeling the ship to allow a 3rd turret hardpoint would be too much effort). I agree-- capital missiles suck, especially vestigial, un-bonused ones. How is making the Nag use a single weapon type (like the other dreads) while doing the same DPS as the other dreads "making it do half the damage and giving it a utility high?" Reading 101, friend.
Kitt JT wrote:The reason for the **** out-of-seige damage was originally implemented because ccp correctly figured out when they introduced caps that it would force capitalship deaths, by forcing opposing fleets to seige.
To be honest, right now, as it is, ccp shouldn't change regular caps (as they're actually relatively balanced). The problem atm is supers. And ccp shouldn't change regular caps until they change supers.
This is a more valid complaint, however I think it's fair to say that dreads will still need to be sieged to be effective in a capital battle or to crack structures in any reasonable amount of time.
Honestly I was thinking my proposed change would allow dreads to be used for PvE or other solo / small group activities that benefit from additional DPS. Currently a dread is just straight up worse than a battleship for PvE-- while they could only really be practical out of siege, even IN siege a dread is worse than a BS due to its horrible locktime and reduced target count. If dreads outdamaged battleships by a fair margin while out of siege, they might have uses outside of PvP (where siege is essentially required).
Carriers are useful for PvP, PvE, and personal logistics. As a result, you see lots of people flying them in lots of capacities. Dreads are good for two things and two things only (at least currently)-- suicide dropping, and unopposed structure shooting. I'd kind of like to see that change. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
172
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Posted - 2012.03.08 02:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
.10 stront and a 1 minute cycle on siege. Change the dread fuel conc from 10% less stront to 10% reduction in cycle time so you end up with a 30 second siege or .5 siege at .10 stron as it is right now.
Right now they are a throw away ship due to role. |
Spugg Galdon
Callidus Temple Forsaken.Empire
116
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Posted - 2012.03.08 17:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think a one minute cycle might be a little too short.
I agree though, even with the shortened siege timer to 5 minutes it's a painfully long time. Maybe have the skill reduce siege time by 10% per level so that you get a 2 minute 30 second siege timer. That way Dreads could "burst" their siege mode. Have a manic 150 seconds of DPS and heavy tank and hope they can hold out long enough to drop out of siege, receive reps and go back into siege |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
127
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just sayin, this isn't a thread about how long siege cycles should be. 5min is definitely short enough. This thread is about making dreads better than a battleship while OUT of siege. |
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