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Lp stores really are absurd.

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Author	Topic
Arana Tellen The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.05.28 02:04:00 - [1] Edited by: Arana Tellen on 28/05/2008 02:06:30 I hardly think the LP and price cost of the cruisers is anywhere near sensible: Frigate: 80K LP Cruiser ti: 90K LP Cruiser tii: 100k LP + 20 million isk Why would I even bother with the first two when there are such massive jumps in performance? What should it be? Frigate: 10K LP Cruiser ti: 40K LP Cruiser tii: 80K LP + 10 million isk Is my suggestion. --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Xaxch Kuge	Posted - 2008.05.28 02:52:00 - [2] Its not about the ship performance... Many of these ships aren't too much better than their t2 variants. Its mostly about the prestige of having and flying one of these ships. Also, if they took the cost down they would be all to common. And CCP does not want these ships to be common. Hence these ships being in faction lp stores and why they added cheaper and more helpfull items to the lp store in the first place; to make people buy the ammo and mods instead of saving up for one of these ships.
Katana Seiko	Posted - 2008.05.28 02:52:00 - [3] Those ships aren't really for fighting, they're more like prestige ships you can fight with if you really want to... --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Katana Seiko Those ships aren't really for fighting, they're more like prestige ships you can fight with if you really want to... I would think Navy would make ships that are used to... fight? CCP adding more hangar-queens just doesn¦t make sense. Just chop the prices already and lets see some of these more "exotic" ships used for what EVE should be all about.
Eleana Tomelac Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.05.28 09:54:00 - [5] Honestly, there are not only the ships that have absurd pricing... Most modules, even by 5 run BPCs are just too expansive to be of any use, you're better buying on contract a pirate faction equivalent item. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.05.28 15:29:00 - [6] Quote: Those ships aren't really for fighting The NAVY ISSUE ships aren't supposed to be used for fighting? Give me a break. Prestige ships suck (unless it's an actual prestige ship that only 1 or 2 of exist in game). Navy Issue ships should be cheap enough to be used for fighting, yet expensive enough that the loss stings. Currently the prices for cruisers and frigates are way out of line and much too expensive.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.05.28 18:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Those ships aren't really for fighting The NAVY ISSUE ships aren't supposed to be used for fighting? Give me a break. Prestige ships suck (unless it's an actual prestige ship that only 1 or 2 of exist in game). Navy Issue ships should be cheap enough to be used for fighting, yet expensive enough that the loss stings. Currently the prices for cruisers and frigates are way out of line and much too expensive. Im sure the NAVY uses the ships for fighting, but the navy prolly doesnt want to give out its special ships, at least not to any tom, **, or harry that sashsays through the door. The ships are expensive because they are rare, and they are rare cause they are expensive. T2 is usually better anyway. Something needs to be rare, to make it interesting. Originally by:** Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.05.28 19:31:00 - [8] Edited by: Ulstan on 28/05/2008 19:32:18 Where have you been? CNR's are a dime a dozen. Navy ships are not rare. Ships that are very common yet way more expensive than they should be are not interesting or rare, they are just dumb. If you want actual rare ships that are prestigious to own, go find some state issue shisp or a golden magnate or something.
Xaxch Kuge	Posted - 2008.05.28 19:46:00 - [9] navy issue stuff to be honest if made "cheap" would be more common than the t1 variants.... and were would that leave the game? its already happening to much with the ammo for Pete's sake. with this char i can pump out the same base damage as a char thats got all tech 2 equipment. Why? because i got the cash to buy an Abbadon fit it with the best fitings and put the best faction crystals in it, basically giving me easier to fit t2 equipment..... and basically for the same cost as t2 equipment. While CNR's are "a dime a dozen" they are mostly used for mission running. Which in a CNR is utterly safe. And if i may point out those are CNR's... the Caldari pilots outnumber ever other pilots, plus the fact that Caldari pilots tend to run missions more than any other race would make cnrs common. Its hard to go to a Caldari system that offers level 4 missions and not see ravens streaming out of stations on a constant basis. However go to any other empire and seeing their bs's running around on missions isn't so common. So yes CNR's are common. but that doesn't mean because they aren't hard to get or still slightly overpriced. Simply put the navy ships are like exotic cars in real life. Awesome to look at, Awesome to get looked at in, Awesome to drive... But not realistic for every day driving. Proof in point, none of you would be complaining about how expensive they were if you didn't think they were cool good ships. And had the cash to "easily" buy them on contracts. soooooooooo..... suck it up and work harder to lose something thats gonna make u log for the day if it pops
Lt Angus Wicked Crew	Posted - 2008.05.28 19:53:00 - [10] Yes they are hanger decoration and that is the problem Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers

Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn The ships are expensive because they are rare, and they are rare cause they are expensive. T2 is usually better anyway. Something needs to be rare, to make it interesting. Mmmm.. artificial scarcity. With the T2 price drop, the LP ships (and modules) really do need to come down a bit. Right now the only LP ships one ever sees are the Navy BSes since their LP price is in line with their value. I do not think I have every seen a faction frigate in actual use. And as others have said, hanger queens are a sad thing in this game. There is also the element of 'when they are useful'. A L1 mission runner could really use a faction frigate, but it is way outside what the can earn. It isn't until they have been doing L4 missions for a while that they can get one, which is a bit silly. Now, if they ever started having high-level missions that required small ships I could see an argument for them (now wouldn't that be nice? high payout missions that depend on skills rather then flying the biggest ship).
Dristra Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Those ships aren't really for fighting The NAVY ISSUE ships aren't supposed to be used for fighting? Give me a break. Prestige ships suck (unless it's an actual prestige ship that only 1 or 2 of exist in game). Navy Issue ships should be cheap enough to be used for fighting, yet expensive enough that the loss stings. Currently the prices for cruisers and frigates are way out of line and much too expensive. This. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.05.28 20:26:00 - [13] I think the good 'rule of thumb' or these ships should be: A faction frigate should be within the reach of a L1 runner who works hard. A faction cruiser should be within the reach of a L2 runner who works hard.
Jurgen Cartis Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.05.29 04:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Xaxch Kuge Its not about the ship performance... Many of these ships aren't too much better than their t2 variants. I hope you meant T1 variants, because no navy frig or cruiser comes anywhere close to their race's T2 ship lineups at that size. I stand by the concept that Navy frigs should run ~3-4m, pirate frigs a bit more, Navy Cruisers about 20-30m, Pirate Cruisers maybe 30-40m. This makes a Navy Caracal and a Drake have similar costs, and while the Drake is still more cost-effective, it's a reasonable price for the performance of the CNC compared to the much cheaper Caracal and the much better Cerberus. At those prices I'd seriously consider acquiring a Navy Vexor, as it is it's just not cost effective compared to my Myrmidons and Vexors. Insurance of course remains the same as their T1 counterparts. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Arana Tellen The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.05.29 05:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Originally by: Xaxch Kuge Its not about the ship performance... Many of these ships aren't too much better than their t2 variants. I hope you meant T1 variants, because no navy frig or cruiser comes anywhere close to their race's T2 ship lineups at that size. I stand by the concept that Navy frigs should run ~3-4m, pirate frigs a bit more, Navy Cruisers about 20-30m, Pirate Cruisers maybe 30-40m. This makes a Navy Caracal and a Drake have similar costs, and while the Drake is still more cost-effective, it's a reasonable price for the performance of the CNC compared to the much cheaper Caracal and the much better Cerberus. At those prices I'd seriously consider acquiring a Navy Vexor, as it is it's just not cost effective compared to my Myrmidons and Vexors. Insurance of course remains the same as their T1 counterparts. Navy caracal go an extra launcher and have you seen the navy omen? --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Guns nButter The Nietzian Way Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.29 06:14:00 - [16] apparently nobody here has even attempted faction warfare yet. those fleet cruisers are the single most powerful ship capable of entering the mid-class complexes, and i won't even comment on the navy omen. okay maybe i will, out-dpsing a zealot is *ER THAN A BAG OF **S!
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.05.29 08:53:00 - [17] Actually the price for the ships in LP stores aren't even balanced. Generally speaking 240,000 lp should go for about 200mil if the newb who grinds that much lp doesn't know this... and cant do the easy math on selling other things to get this... they are taking quite the hit in value. It's like building a raven and then selling them for 40mil on the market. Which I tell you... would go VERRRRY fast. The reality is that not many are stupid enough to buy the ships off the market. You grind your faction standing up to 9+ and find the cosmos agents and get the bpcs for a few tags. Huge profit; but competitively you can price the ships much much cheaper. Then you build them. You can sell the ship for 300mil and still make lots of profit. Obviously you can only do this once per character... but considering 75% of us are in high sec... and that breaks up into mining-production-missions... there are many carebears who can do this offer. Then again it does take about 6 months of running LOTS of lvl 4 storylines. So get what you will from it I guess. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
Eleana Tomelac Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.05.29 09:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Jason Edwards Actually the price for the ships in LP stores aren't even balanced. Generally speaking 240,000 lp should go for about 200mil if the newb who grinds that much lp doesn't know this... and cant do the easy math on selling other things to get this... they are taking quite the hit in value. It's like building a raven and then selling them for 40mil on the market. Which I tell you... would go VERRRRY fast. I usually have better to do with my LPs, selling faction ammo brings more profit than faction ships. And the built ship offer is stupid, even with industry 1, it is cheaper to take the 100K/20M offer and build the ship. LPs have a value for me, and 240k for a 70M ship is not what I usually value them. Originally by: Jason Edwards The reality is that not many are stupid enough to buy the ships off the market. You grind your faction standing up to 9+ and find the cosmos agents and get the bpcs for a few tags. Huge profit; but competitively you can price the ships much much cheaper. Then you build them. You can sell the ship for 300mil and still make lots of profit. Obviously you can only do this once per character... but considering 75% of us are in high sec... and that breaks up into mining-production-missions... there are many carebears who can do this offer. Then again it does take about 6 months of running LOTS of lvl 4 storylines. So get what you will from it I guess. Hmmm, time has a cost, loosing standings with opposing faction has a cost, not being able to move through half of the empire space is a cost... It's seriously cheaper to take a megathron navy issue in the LP store before you have the 9 faction standings. And you will have them before, I guess you would even have 5 of them before you have the standing for a free one. Grinding for 'free stuff' is the same as grinding for 'LP stuff'... It takes time. The ship price in LP stores is too high (lowering LP and increasing ISK would be a way too), in the end, they are too expensive considering how much is an HAS with higher performance (the omen has still a weak defense compared to a zealot). If the goal is to have those cruisers as super factional warfare ships, they still need to be cheaper because they will be lost in complexes and missions. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Forge Lag	Posted - 2008.05.29 10:21:00 - [19] Have you looked at the price of faction mods? Single mod can easily surpass the price of T1 BS. Hundreds of tags. It is not just absurd grind it also represents major standings hit someone had to suffer. If anything faction BSs are cheap relative to what level of grind LP stores are set to. We could argue that the whole LP store is sick but if anything is out of line it is relatively cheap faction BSs. Revisiting the whole LP store prices is what you in fact demand.
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.05.29 18:42:00 - [20] Yes. Navy-Cruisers and Frigates are just too expensive, like the mods are. 1000 LP are worth 1 Million ISK, so a Navy-Cruiser comes at a 90 Million Pricetag + the time it takes to get those LP. With good skills you can get 6500 LP for a high rated LvL 4 Mission, but in average you maybe get 3500 LP / Mission. This means, that you have to fly 30 Missions to get the LP needed. A T2-cruiser costs 80-90 Million and due to higher resists and speed and additional boni, it's way better then the Navy-counterpart, for the exact same price. Same goes for Navy-Modules vs. Faction-Modules. So cut the LP needed for Navy-ships and Navy-Modules by 50% and we'll see them more common÷y used, but still way more expensive then simple T1-stuff. .

Goremageddon Box Soldiers Of Mercy	Posted - 2008.05.29 19:40:00 - [21] How about 79 mil isk, 79,000 lp store implants you can buy on the market for 5 mil. Lol.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.05.29 23:49:00 - [22] well it seems the people we are fighting for don't want to give us discounts on militia equipment. I mean that equipment is for all the NPCs well kill all the time.

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