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Hoshi
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 00:45:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:
system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611
So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything
havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not
Mistery solved.
Madbull
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heh go there and start killing cnrs all day yourself then 
Not saying it is the answer in this case but it wouldn't be the first time rounded off sec status would have caused a problem.
Anyone remember one of the earlier alliance tournaments that was in a system with a sec status of something like 0.04, it displayed as 0.0 but people got sec status hits for all the kills.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:04:00 -
[122]
It has just happened again although slightly different, that is now twice in a week and never before in 3 years of playing.
I was on first gate of a mission, had a couple of rats left and a guy warps in flashing red, he didn't loot any of my cans, i had no time aggression against him. He went to go for a can but i blew it up before he got there. This time my drones were in so they couldn't attack him. As there were only a few rats left i noticed him straight away this time rather than before when there was a whole screen of flashing rats.
Different person and different corp but i would like to know how he warps in already flashing red when he has not aggressed me in any way. I ignored him for a while and he flew away.
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Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:08:00 -
[123]
Also just to add that i even moved about 10 jumps away to use a different agent so not even same area
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:27:00 -
[124]
Next time this happens, take a few screen shots.
Are you sure you don't have any enemies btw? Could be paid mercenaries.
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[insert signature here] |
Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:30:00 -
[125]
just looked in local channel and this guy is doing it to a lot of mission runners at this moment and he is appearing red to all of us even though he has a positive sec status. One guy has just lost his golem to him and he is only in a caldari destroyer.
If you salvage from a wreck would it be classed the same as stealing loot?
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Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 01:36:00 -
[126]
nope my mistake, sounds as if he had a friend in a raven come in and popped him
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Bai ZongTong
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Posted - 2008.06.02 03:04:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Genicus
just looked in local channel and this guy is doing it to a lot of mission runners at this moment and he is appearing red to all of us even though he has a positive sec status. One guy has just lost his golem to him and he is only in a caldari destroyer.
If you salvage from a wreck would it be classed the same as stealing loot?
scary...
hope your new system is alot safer!
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Pandion Lord
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.02 05:54:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Next time this happens, take a few screen shots.
Are you sure you don't have any enemies btw? Could be paid mercenaries.
Jeez, how much proof do you all need in order to see a problem exists here?
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Bai ZongTong
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Posted - 2008.06.02 06:36:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Bai ZongTong on 02/06/2008 06:36:30
Originally by: Pandion Lord
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Next time this happens, take a few screen shots.
Are you sure you don't have any enemies btw? Could be paid mercenaries.
Jeez, how much proof do you all need in order to see a problem exists here?
seconded.
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Azarath Raven
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Posted - 2008.06.02 08:43:00 -
[130]
They were blinking red for having Security Status under -5.0? Then how did they entered the system in the first place?
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 09:38:00 -
[131]
Destroyer killed a Golem? Lol, that sounds funny.
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 09:40:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 02/06/2008 09:40:33
Originally by: Genicus
It has just happened again although slightly different, that is now twice in a week and never before in 3 years of playing.
I was on first gate of a mission, had a couple of rats left and a guy warps in flashing red, he didn't loot any of my cans, i had no time aggression against him. He went to go for a can but i blew it up before he got there. This time my drones were in so they couldn't attack him. As there were only a few rats left i noticed him straight away this time rather than before when there was a whole screen of flashing rats.
Different person and different corp but i would like to know how he warps in already flashing red when he has not aggressed me in any way. I ignored him for a while and he flew away.
He probed you down, flew into the mission, looted a wreck and then came to you, that's how it works, there is no exploit.
What system is he active in, I'd like to see that.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:29:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Hanneshannes
Edited by: Hanneshannes on 02/06/2008 09:40:33
Originally by: Genicus
It has just happened again although slightly different, that is now twice in a week and never before in 3 years of playing.
I was on first gate of a mission, had a couple of rats left and a guy warps in flashing red, he didn't loot any of my cans, i had no time aggression against him. He went to go for a can but i blew it up before he got there. This time my drones were in so they couldn't attack him. As there were only a few rats left i noticed him straight away this time rather than before when there was a whole screen of flashing rats.
Different person and different corp but i would like to know how he warps in already flashing red when he has not aggressed me in any way. I ignored him for a while and he flew away.
He probed you down, flew into the mission, looted a wreck and then came to you, that's how it works, there is no exploit.
What system is he active in, I'd like to see that.
Impossible, try reading his post.
1. He said he was on the first gate so even if the pirate stole from a wreck, he would have seen it.
2. The pirate was already flashing when warping in
3. He did not attack the pirate, so it couldn't have attacked him without using an exploit.
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Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard  |
Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:35:00 -
[134]
I meant that he probed him down before in a mission, waited till he left, then entered the mission, looted something and buggered off again.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:41:00 -
[135]
Then how did he attack the OP without the OP having aggroed against him?
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Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:50:00 -
[136]
He didn't take any of my loot as i had taken it all, the only thing he could have done was salvage.
Normally when someone steals from you the 15 minute aggression timer comes up and that is not happening in this situation, he warps into the mission already flashing red.
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Saracena
Infinatech
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:26:00 -
[137]
Just my 2 cents here:
1. About them warping in flashing red: Perhaps they found an earlier can you had in a previous mission and looted from it? I don't know. Is it possible that they looted a wreck very quickly from the initial gate there, and you only noticed them when they started flashing red?
2. About the drones - Also, if you have your drones out and they're looking for a new target they'd go after someone that aggressed you (or stole from you). The question is when and how did they do so.
3. Question that no one has asked - were you doing this mission with f.o.f missiles - I've heard they make an excellent pirate tool for nailing people once they've been robbed (have not tested this till now but will next time I login).
Good luck finding the solution m8; it's impossible to learn before you find out where you went wrong  .
Don't like Minmatar space? Put yourself on the contact list for hisec hidden asteroid belt bookmarks [currently operating in: Kador, Derelik, Domain]
2.5 per small
4.5 per medium
6.5 per large |
Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:32:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ethaet
Then how did he attack the OP without the OP having aggroed against him?
The way it looks right now, his drones attacked the thief at some point.
Unless you are salvaging on the fly and never noticed another ship in onr of your previous missions, it is entirely possible that they probed you down in your misson, warped into your mission (all cloaked in a covops) and waited till you left to grab your salvaging ship. Then they uncoaked, looted a wreck, cloaked again and warped to a SS or smth.
At this point, they know the name of your ship and all, so the next mission, they probe you down, which, with good skills, takes between 30 seconds and 2 minutes, got their combat ship and paid you a visit in your mission.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:43:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Durzel on 02/06/2008 11:45:32
Incidentally just because someone is flashing red doesn't mean they can attack you, it just means you can attack them if you so choose (whereupon they in turn can then attack you back).
Same applies to people with -5.0 if they manage to stick around in high-sec - you can attack them, they can't attack you until you aggress them.
Aggressive drones shouldn't attack a target that hasn't already aggressed you (i.e. firing on you, etc). My drones are set aggressive and they don't even proactively attack rats that have ewar'd me but haven't actually shot (e.g. spider drones). I find it a little hard to believe that your drones would proactively wander off to shoot someone who just happens to be flashing red without you commanding them to do so. I could be wrong about this though - surely this is something that has already been tested or could easily be tested?
That said outside of the usual can-flipping mechanics I'm at a loss to explain how a flashy red could turn up in your mission AND proactively attack you without Concord arriving on grid.
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Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:46:00 -
[140]
This was the first mission of the night so they couldn't have found a previous mission and stole from a can.
All the cans on this mission were empty so they could only have done salvage from a wreck.
I was using cruise, have never used fof missiles.
Drones were not out on this particular mission.
As i have mentioned before you normally get the 15 minute aggression timer if someone steals from you and this is not happening but i am not sure what happens if someone else salvages from your mission wreck, anyone know? and if they did would you get an agression timer?
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:48:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Durzel on 02/06/2008 11:49:19
Originally by: Genicus
Edited by: Genicus on 02/06/2008 11:47:12
This was the first mission of the night so they couldn't have found a previous mission and stole from a can.
All the cans on this mission were empty so they could only have done salvage from a wreck.
I was using cruise, have never used fof missiles.
Drones were not out on this particular mission.
As i have mentioned before you normally get the 15 minute aggression timer if someone steals from you and this is not happening but i am not sure what happens if someone else salvages from your mission wrecks, anyone know? and if they did would you get an agression timer?
Well, that's definitely a worry then. Can't think of anything legitimate that would make someone flashy red to you without them having been able to aggress you in some way.
Maybe the guy has found out a way to wardec NPC corps lol
You received a response to your petition yet?
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Genicus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:09:00 -
[142]
yes i had a response from ccp saying that their logs didn't show anything.
I looked at my combat logs and i found the end of the first attack but didn't find anything leading up to it where the first guy warp scrambled me, for some reason that is not there and nothing to do with that player is listed which i find quite strange
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mr bighelmet
EnTech
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:25:00 -
[143]
they can shot the wreck to get agro
If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest |
Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:27:00 -
[144]
Originally by: mr bighelmet
they can shot the wreck to get agro
They get a visit from CONCORD.
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Krollin
Ki Shoda
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:36:00 -
[145]
Genicus,
Firstly, sorry to hear about your ship loss, its good to see that you didnt do what most people do when they loose a ship.
As for trying to put some light or even an answer of the table there is some really good suggestions here, I would like to add my own:
Aramachi is indeed a 0.5 system, you will find it home to alot of suicide gank squads, even the mission farming community are doing it now!
I am not sure if you are aware but if you steal from somoenes wreck you are given a TEMPORARY -5.0 security status, which is why they tend to flash red (depending on your overview settings), also they will appear with a skull in local (again depending on your overview settings).
I would assume that 1 pilot simply looted from a wreck while the other 2 pilots offered support. Upon entering the mission where you were currently being attacked by the mission swap you were targeted.
As it takes a good 20-30 seconds for concord to appear in Aramachi one of the following occured:
1. As already suggested you accidently fired upon the locked ship, thus why only a single person appers on your kill post
2. As you were taking a large amount of damage he used EM torps to destroy you before CONCORD could respond, allowing his friends to loot the wrecks.
In future I would recommend either warping out or blowing up your own wrecks to prevent loot/salvage lose. NEVER EVER EVER engage anyone who enters your mission flashing red - do a directional scan and I am sure you would find others sat in close proximity waiting.
We all live and learn, just dont make the same mistake twice!
Kro
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Lrrp
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2008.06.02 12:57:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Lrrp on 02/06/2008 12:58:02
A couple more ideas:
1) Pilot has greater than -5 standings with faction but not Concorde and enters high sec in a shuttle or fast warping frig. Goes to station and buys a BS.
Has a alt undocked so he can see if faction navy is outside station. If not he undocks BS, goes to SS (faction navy won't hunt you down). Alt probes down mission and flashy red warps to alt and enters mission. Genicus now sees flashy red in mission. Still does not answer question of how Genicus was attacked tho.
2) Hack?
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Necoria
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Posted - 2008.06.02 14:48:00 -
[147]
how about:
1. be in adjacent low sec, shoot someone/a can, take a sec hit.
2. jump into highsec, dodge sentry guns with fast align/ have someone eject u a ship at a SS
3. enter mission... voila, u flash red in high sec, without negative sec rating
though i doubt they can continue this for a long time, for all the sec hits will make them outlaw pretty soon, unless they are mission runners themself |
Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:00:00 -
[148]
The minute you enter high sec with a GCC (Global Criminal Countdown) you get a visit from CONCORD. Also, you can't dodge gate guns, that shuttle is dust before it goes into warp (which it can't do because CONCORD will have you scrammed, webbed and neuted, not to mention the 50 battleships with perfect tracking and 10000 dps shooting you) |
Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:02:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Genicus
I presume they were flashing red due to the fact that they are pirates, in otherwords a bad negative sec status.
If they were flashing red they wouldn't be in empire, they get pwnd on the gate if they do. This means they were aggroed against you. Common ways to do this is to get you to shoot one of them or get you to take something from their wreck/can. They may have shot a rat in your mission then attacked you when u took the loot? Or one came and stole from a wreck of yours, you shot him, then he came back in a nastier ship?. |
Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:27:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Admiral Madbull
searched the net abit and this is what i found about the system you got ganked on:
system: Aramachi
real sec status: 0.489788583985611
So there is the answer, its not a real 0.5 system, thats why they could shoot you down without concorde doing anything
havent read all the other posts before, so not sure if anyone mentioned this before or not
Mistery solved.
Madbull
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Sec rounds up, all systems that display as 0.5 have a true sec of between 0.4 and 0.49999999 (0.0 space is actually negative security space, low sec goes from 0.01 to 0.399 and displays 0.1 to 0.4). Concord always comes in 0.5 systems anyway.
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