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Kakita J
Placid Reborn
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:11:00 -
[1]
I would like to remind the Federal Government, that even in this times of foreign-policy crisis, matters of the interior cannot be neglected.
For years Placid Reborn has been campaigning for an appropriate CONCORD presence in parts of the Placid region, but nothing whatsoever has happened. One of my compatriots was adorned with a medal for involvement in a militia combating drug trafficking by the Serpentis, but this only serves to highlight the shortcomings of the presence of official security agents: Fighting spacefaring crime lords should not be the responsibility of the local populace, be it pod-pilot or otherwise, but must be supported by the government.
The people of Skarkon have reached the point where they can take it no longer, and finally submitted to the Angel Cartel, of all faction-like bodies, for protection. Even if the Minmatar Republic and CONCORD do not recognize such claims (and how could they), who do you think will be holding the reigns in Skarkon in the future without a reaction?
Will expeditionary navy and CONCORD forces be sent? I am most excitedly following this series of events, and let me say it again: As a well-meant advice, the Federation should not let things come this far, and immediately dispatch additional security personnel to the Placid region in general, and to the Viriette constellation in particular. The Ostingele system for example has de facto not been "controlled" by the Federation for as long as I make my living in that area, and that has been a couple of standard years.
How much longer do you think will your own population watch you neglect them, before they turn to someone else for protection?
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"They better fix the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* jump *bleep* gates before I *bleep**bleep**bleep* and then some."
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Kudon Astraisx
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:26:00 -
[2]
As a staunch and loyal supporter of the Republic, I am concerned about what Skarkon's recent action means for us as well.
I support their right to self-determination and believe that their independence should be recognized. But at the same time, we must ask ourselves what we need to be doing differently.
We are failing our people somehow.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:51:00 -
[3]
Pilot Kakita,
You must understand that people will do whatever it takes to get a protection on their life. If one governing entity can offer a better protection, then by all means the people will pay their tribute willingly. The Angel Cartel is as legitimate a governing entity as the Republic or CONCORD. The Empires prop themselves up on a throne of morality and believe they have the right to call right and wrong, the legit and illegitimate. Their ability to do so is just an illusion -- they have spun themselves as the heroes in the holofilms when they are really more like antiheroes.
Right and wrong (as well as, some may argue, sovereignty) are such abstract constructs. But there is a certain hypocrisy in recognizing the Cartel's sovereignty of Curse and then casting aside any notion that the Cartel could offer open protection for the residents of Skarkon, even though the people of the system themselves have asked us for their assistance in governance.
If this happened in the State; were the Guristas able to annex a system with the approval of the local population, I would be saying the exact same thing. They have a right to self-determination.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Dionisius
The Circle
STYX.
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Posted - 2008.05.28 18:03:00 -
[4]
The situation in Placid is quiet worrying actually, i've been there in multiple ocasions and my hands were always full with work given by the Federate Navy office over there.
Still i think this is no time to create divisions amongst our citizenship, we face larger issues with the Malkalen incident, and now this new Cartel mockery.
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I am the destroyer of worlds and the also the cokie thief. |
Babel
Entity no. 84837
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Posted - 2008.05.28 18:13:00 -
[5]
All nation states are despotisms. Kudos to those who do not feel they need to deceive their citizens they are anything other than that.
Like many others, the people of Skarkon have tired of hypocrisies and propaganda - I, for one, congratulate them upon welcoming the Cartel administration.
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URIEL Recruitish Threaddery |
Esna Pitoojee
Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.05.28 23:02:00 -
[6]
In this matter, I suggest we adopt a 'wait-and-see' approach. Unlike factions such as Sansha's Nation, the Angels have no explicitely malevolent agenda. Do not let the fact that we most often encounter the Angels in hostile situations fool you - they are just as capable of violence, and of compassion, as any of the CONCORD-approved empires.
If the Angels turn Skarkon into a oppresively governed booster-manufacturing planet, then I will gladly be amongst the first to engage them. However, if they assist the people of Skarkon and develop it, then I will be amongst the first to defend them.
CONCORD's involvement also worries me - the day that CONCORD tells a person who he or she can or cannot support is the day it ceases to become a helpful police force and becomes an oppresive police state.
Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you.
My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp. |
Rawr Cristina
Naqam
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 01:11:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Esna Pitoojee
In this matter, I suggest we adopt a 'wait-and-see' approach. Unlike factions such as Sansha's Nation, the Angels have no explicitely malevolent agenda.
Oh please, don't be so ignorant. The Nation's agenda has always been peaceful, though I doubt you've actually met one in person so how could you know? You're probably comfortable believing that we're some kind of evil enslaver race like in one of those holo-movies wanting to control the universe, right?
Yet, despite that, you praise the Angels, despite the fact they're likely to turn Skarkon into nothing more than a filthy pit of tyranny and drug abuse?
Sounds like their idea of a business oppurtunity to me.
...
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.05.29 01:24:00 -
[8]
The Nation's agenda is only peaceful if you join them, willingly or as a slave. All the Cartel asks for is a tribute. We allow for the ultimate in freedom. Drug abuse is only the result of what some people consider their freedom of choice. If it makes them feel good, why stop them? It runs rampant in the Guristas organization as well, and many other of the so-called "fringe factions," including, I bet, the Nation. It is not what the Cartel is about, however, and does not define the organization. Look to the Serpentis if you want to talk about the top and bottom of the drug business. All we do is trade and protect our business partners and customers.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Rawr Cristina
Naqam
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 01:56:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 29/05/2008 02:00:26
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
All the Cartel asks for is a tribute. We allow for the ultimate in freedom. Drug abuse is only the result of what some people consider their freedom of choice.
To me, that sounds like you're simply going to leave the residents of Skarkon to their own devices, ungoverened and unprotected. Maybe that's ideal for pirates like yourself in the depths of lawless space, but Skarkon still remains within Republic boundries and thus is host to scores of unhardened civilians; many of whom will suffer if you force this on them.
Before you know it, the streets of Skarkon II will be policed by the Drug Barons who kill anyone who dares to step in their way. Your precious 'freedom' is going to do little more than create a power vacuum among bidding fascists.
Quote:
The Nation's agenda is only peaceful if you join them, willingly or as a slave.
We're peaceful to anyone who dosen't prove themselves to be hostile, or directly affiliated with hostile entities. Unfortunately it's hard to keep a peaceful stance when half the universe shoots you on sight.
Oh, and you won't find any drugs in my system. Except maybe wodka *grins*
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.05.29 04:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 29/05/2008 02:00:26
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
All the Cartel asks for is a tribute. We allow for the ultimate in freedom. Drug abuse is only the result of what some people consider their freedom of choice.
To me, that sounds like you're simply going to leave the residents of Skarkon to their own devices, ungoverened and unprotected. Maybe that's ideal for pirates like yourself in the depths of lawless space, but Skarkon still remains within Republic boundries and thus is host to scores of unhardened civilians; many of whom will suffer if you force this on them.
Before you know it, the streets of Skarkon II will be policed by the Drug Barons who kill anyone who dares to step in their way. Your precious 'freedom' is going to do little more than create a power vacuum among bidding fascists.
Absolute freedom would be anarchy. The Cartel does of course have its own code and its own rules. I've no doubt that the inhabitants of Skarkon II would be able to setup their own, mostly autonomous government. The Angel Cartel would simply be their premier trading partner and their tribute would go toward the cost of keeping an Angel presence in the system to maintain security.
Yes, it is true that our style of play is heavily... capitalistic, but there would be no power vacuum. I imagine it being more like a confederation in practice, but I do not deal with planetside politics myself, and anything I might suggest is highly speculative. I'll leave it up to the Dominations to mediate much of the political wrangling. Considering recent events, I've had enough politics for one year already.
Whatever comes of it, I do believe it is better than forcing the illusion of free will upon a mind. The will of the people of Skarkon would be served.
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Quote:
The Nation's agenda is only peaceful if you join them, willingly or as a slave.
We're peaceful to anyone who dosen't prove themselves to be hostile, or directly affiliated with hostile entities. Unfortunately it's hard to keep a peaceful stance when half the universe shoots you on sight.
Those people likely believe that if they were not openly hostile they'd simply be stabbed in the back. The Nation has a history of, shall we say, making its constituents eerily comfortable. It's a bit of a surprise that Naqam hasn't seen greater backlash from paramilitary organizations.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
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Kostantin Mort
Naqam
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.05.29 07:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kostantin Mort on 29/05/2008 07:23:44
Oh indeed, the Angel's long history of using slaves certainly puts them in a good light, along with their flagrant sorties in Minmatar space. It's quite hilarious, to be honest, that the Minmatar of Skarkon "decided" to hand themself over to another slaver, so soon after their own escape from the Empire. I wonder what happens if the people don't, or even can't, pay for their "tribute", Miss Sakoda? Skarkon is not exactly the richest of areas, but I'm sure that there will be times when it will be hard for the residents of Skarkon II to meet the demands of the Angel. I guess that then the Angel will pick up on their old traditions of wanton aggression, taking what is not given to them and quickly "dealing" with any dissent.
Fortunately for once CONCORD has stopped such an obvious power grab, and as for my part, I will do anything, ANYTHING, to stop the oppressive and aggressive tendencies of the disgusting Angel scum from ever achieving more than a tiny little grasp in Skarkon.
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Innovation is a product of madness. |
Esna Pitoojee
Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem
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Posted - 2008.05.29 11:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
I wonder what happens if the people don't, or even can't, pay for their "tribute", Miss Sakoda? Skarkon is not exactly the richest of areas, but I'm sure that there will be times when it will be hard for the residents of Skarkon II to meet the demands of the Angel. I guess that then the Angel will pick up on their old traditions of wanton aggression, taking what is not given to them and quickly "dealing" with any dissent.
To the Angels, they pay tribute. To the Republic, they payed taxes. Two words for one action, the release of wealth to afford protection from a greater power.
As I said before, if the Angels begin to opress Skarkon, you can expect my ship to be one of the first to engage the Angels. If not...
Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you.
My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2008.05.29 16:15:00 -
[13]
Sakoda, given that you're super-best-friends with Aria Jenneth, I would have expected more of you than barefaced mendacity. The Angel Cartel is a legitimate entity? Ha! Please - pull the other one. Now that I've heard that, I've heard everything.
It is perhaps an indicator of the way in which supporting the Cartel has affected you that you tried that one.
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CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Dance Commander
Asuka Smith > not even goons can make 30m ISK this interesting. |
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
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Posted - 2008.05.29 17:21:00 -
[14]
Returning to the matter of Placid, it's a well-established fact that the poor security of the region exists because the local government there (mostly based planetside) refuses such measures.
However, Kakita, if you are suggesting that CONCORD should have the power to overrule such local decisions, then I agree with you whole-heartedly. Let us work to make that happen.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.05.29 19:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kostantin Mort
Oh indeed, the Angel's long history of using slaves certainly puts them in a good light, along with their flagrant sorties in Minmatar space. It's quite hilarious, to be honest, that the Minmatar of Skarkon "decided" to hand themself over to another slaver, so soon after their own escape from the Empire. I wonder what happens if the people don't, or even can't, pay for their "tribute", Miss Sakoda? Skarkon is not exactly the richest of areas, but I'm sure that there will be times when it will be hard for the residents of Skarkon II to meet the demands of the Angel. I guess that then the Angel will pick up on their old traditions of wanton aggression, taking what is not given to them and quickly "dealing" with any dissent.
Fortunately for once CONCORD has stopped such an obvious power grab, and as for my part, I will do anything, ANYTHING, to stop the oppressive and aggressive tendencies of the disgusting Angel scum from ever achieving more than a tiny little grasp in Skarkon.
Firstly, to get this out of the way quickly, there is no major difference between a tribute and a tax, as Mr. Pitoojee has said. They are simply different means to an end.
It is true that the Cartel places no real limits on what cargo it will trade for profit. Some of this may be human cargo, but these are left quite intact and healthy. That is, opposed to the Nation which subverted your poor spirit, Mr. Mort, and now has you spewing Sansha propaganda that you never would have had it not been for those things they placed inside your head. You are a slave to your own mind, a fate far worse than being forced to work to make a living.
So what is better? Retaining a little bit of dignity and character or having someone else own that too?
In fact, I see from a quick check of the market that True Power is currently buying slaves. It's interesting that you'd make statements of this sort against such an "oppressive and aggressive" Angel Cartel, and after coming from such a pious background yourself. Tsk.
Oh, one point of curiosity that's been brewing in my head as I write this. Mr. Mort, do you still believe in the Amarrian God after your conversion to the Nation? It's not like I talk to you often anymore and would really like to know so long as we're sparring right here.
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Sakoda, given that you're super-best-friends with Aria Jenneth, I would have expected more of you than barefaced mendacity. The Angel Cartel is a legitimate entity? Ha! Please - pull the other one. Now that I've heard that, I've heard everything.
It is perhaps an indicator of the way in which supporting the Cartel has affected you that you tried that one.
The Cartel is certainly legitimate in the sense that it governs itself, its proxies, and even has a claim to space recognized by CONCORD. We make our own laws, just as the State or the Federation makes their own. Because we don't conform to your own thinking on how a society should operate does not mean there aren't many other perspectives from which to view the entity that is the Angel Cartel. I'm sure the Federation very much looks down upon the Amarrians for their slave trade as an illegitimate, ruthless action. Likewise, they also look down on the Cartel (after buying boosters from us or our friends the Serpentis, usually). In the same way, we are no more or less a legitimate entity than any of the major Empires.
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
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