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Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE
Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
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Cipher Jones
344
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
Yeah but since you pay to win by trading isk for plex for aurum everyone who can make enough isk to pay to win wont care. Which is everyone but you.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
12
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
And you are mad because of.... ? |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
A large difference exists between something where there are multiple ways to obtain in game (isk) and that can be obtained in quantity more efficiently at the alliance level than by selling plex (moon goo) and something that somebody has to put up real $$$ to create (Aurum). |
Soulpirate
State War Academy Caldari State
110
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1200
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Here we go AGAIN...
There is no problem.
/thread EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
108
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Posted - 2012.03.08 18:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is. More expensive plex? Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
650
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. Not really. Aurum can still be obtained with ISK (buy PLEX), and the "winning", or even just the advantage, is not guaranteed.
This is as much a microtranaction as can hiring PL by paying them PLEX to help you take a 0.0 system. Nothing guarantees you that they will actually do their job, or that you don't get outbid by someone else and PL turns on you. That is always a risk with mercs. It's better to have your own troops loyal to you because of more than their next paycheck.
The microtransactions people rage about are those that are "pay $, have advantage impossible to have with just plain effort". It's okay to pay to get a few PLEX, then buy a Machariel with them, since
- that made another player rich and
- someone who didn't pay a PLEX can still get a Machariel.
It's not OK to pay PLEX and get a Machariel for free (circumventing part A) and not OK to get an item not available to others who didnt pay plex (circumventing part B).
Paying mercs in DUST for their work using AUR is consistent with both of those points. It would just be inconvenient as hell to have to go through PLEX to do it, and PLEX prices will likely spike because of it. So... chill. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
217
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
The article that post is referring to click here doesn't seem to imply anything about Aurum as the main currency. Since contracts are involved, aurum may be used as payment (I'm speculating here), but more than likely ISK will be the biggest currency to flow through the contracts. I mean, how often do you see Eve Online mercs and pirate hunters being paid in Aurum compared to the vast majority that want raw ISK that is a very liquidable asset? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
889
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
To make a tinfoil hat that stretches all the way from GD to MD takes some talent. But you did it. Congrats.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3394
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
OMFG do your homework.
AURUM is not xferable between games.
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
218
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. OMFG do your homework. AURUM is not xferable between games.
I think he's referring to the Aurum Tokens that are posted on the contracts market.
EDIT:But they are limited in supply since they are from the gifts that CCP gave us. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
245
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. Pay to win is not the problem; we already have that with PLEX. The problem with MT (as implemented in NEX and other games) is that it injects items (or in-game currency) directly into the game bypassing the whole player driven economy. I don't see that problem with the Dust-link so far.
I am sorry but there will be no Jita riots. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
325
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Note that there appears to be a misquote in the OP of that thread, so use some salt when reading, misunderstood it my self. |
Soulpirate
State War Academy Caldari State
110
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Soulpirate wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is. More expensive plex? Isn't that a good thing? I like to get more isk for my PLEX.
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Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
108
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Soulpirate wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is. More expensive plex? Isn't that a good thing? I like to get more isk for my PLEX. Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
245
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Posted - 2012.03.08 19:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies. Isn't it nice then that the market will balance it all out. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5382
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Then this is pay to win. No.
What there would be is pay-to-provide-further-potential-for-equipping-to-overcome-differences-in-skill-which-might-provide-enough-advantages-to-win-but-isn't-guaranteed-to-do-so-and-which-might-not-actually-have-any-effect-even-when-they-win-because-the-EVE-side-takes-precedence-(and-all-of-which-can-be-had-without-actually-paying-cash-for-it).
GǪa slightly different thing than P2W
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
108
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies. Isn't it nice then that the market will balance it all out. Yep, at a price that is fine for big 0.0 alliances but to high for normal people (who don't want to turn eve into a second job) Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Soulpirate
State War Academy Caldari State
110
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Lexmana wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies. Isn't it nice then that the market will balance it all out. Yep, at a price that is fine for big 0.0 alliances but to high for normal people (who don't want to turn eve into a second job) I think there is an option where you can pay monthly. |
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
6
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
It might be true that you can get Aurum by trading Plex for em and of course you can buy Plex for ISK. So yeah you can earn Aurum through normal gameplay.
But here is the problem with it. As soon as you can buy something useful (non-vanity) for Aurum (and hiring mercs definetly is non-vanity) you have two things you can do with ingame Plex (get yourself 30 days free gametime or for instance hiring mercs).
Which means there will be higher demand for Plex. Normally a market regulates itself by higher supply and prices stay about the same in the long run. But that cant happen to Plex, quite the contrary actually. You buy Plex for real cash and sell them for ISK, because obviously you want ISK. So today if you want 900 million ISK you need to buy 2 Plex for real cash and sell them on the market. If the market price doubles, because the demand doubles, you will only need to buy 1 Plex for real cash and still get the 900 million you needed.
So all of a sudden there is double the demand, but only half the supply. This way Plex will sky rocket.
And you know what happens next? More and more people drop out of the game, because they cant afford their Plex anymore and dont want to go back to paying Eve the old fashioned way.
You may argue that demand will drop if people quit, but actually thats a downward-spiral that will hurt Eve beyond recovery. For your attention! Market order modification fee (anti-botting, more interesting trading) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78351 |
Cailais
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
226
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
"Players of both games will share the same market and the same currency, ISK, as well as a mail system, voice chat, and text chat."
Looks ok so far.
Fingers crossed CCP haven't got any 'awesome' planned that differs from this.
C. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
141
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cailais wrote:"Players of both games will share the same market and the same currency, ISK, as well as a mail system, voice chat, and text chat."
Looks ok so far.
Fingers crossed CCP haven't got any 'awesome' planned that differs from this.
C.
I hope DUST is a giant isk sink... we need some more of those, as well as a general reduction in isk faucets like incursions. |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
6
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
mechtech wrote:Cailais wrote:"Players of both games will share the same market and the same currency, ISK, as well as a mail system, voice chat, and text chat."
Looks ok so far.
Fingers crossed CCP haven't got any 'awesome' planned that differs from this.
C. I hope DUST is a giant isk sink... we need some more of those, as well as a general reduction in isk faucets like incursions.
QFT. Removing npc sell orders was great, but now there are far too few isk sinks left in Eve. Not really a good thing for a stable ISK value. For your attention! Market order modification fee (anti-botting, more interesting trading) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78351 |
FeralShadow
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
73
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Posting in a needless soapbox postulating thread. |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
51
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if: 1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and 2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison. Yeah but since you pay to win by trading isk for plex for aurum everyone who can make enough isk to pay to win wont care. Which is everyone but you.
Or it will cause plex hyper inflation or to completely bottom out depending on the answer. Either way, I strongly doubt ccp would tie the two games together in such a way that it could impact either negatively should either one fail and I can't see them when dust is released saying to all Sov holders that using dust players is now a requirement to taking Sov. That just won't happen.
Perhaps they'll tie dust in with faction warfare as if dust fails it won't kill the core game and if it succeeds faction warfare might actually become something worth doing. |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
108
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cailais wrote:"Players of both games will share the same market and the same currency, ISK, as well as a mail system, voice chat, and text chat."
Looks ok so far.
Fingers crossed CCP haven't got any 'awesome' planned that differs from this.
C. Yep, this is what it should (and AFAIK is going to) be, I'm fine with dust bunnies buying and spending their own aurum, but it should definately be an isk (not plex) sink from the EVE side of things.
Also, Dust FW would be pure awesomesauce Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3394
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
new blog on friday is over vehicles so it looks like well have to wait for fanfest for the juicy details we're looking for.
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Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
18
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Posted - 2012.03.08 21:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Much ado over nothing. I haven't seen where CCP says DUST will be paid/contracted with Aruum.
Did I miss it? I looked at the provided link. |
Kasidis
Noble Company
23
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Posted - 2012.03.09 00:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Where the heck is Grideris? |
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