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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.31 23:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Bane Glorious on 31/05/2008 23:44:59
This issue is difficult to describe and can have many meanings, but overall it is characterized by a marginalization of subcapital ships when considered alongside capital ships.
The discussion at the CSM would be an exhaustive analysis and discussion of capital ships' effects on the game, what the problems are (if any), and possible approaches to alleviating the problems. Concrete solutions might not be included, but if the overall result is an expansion of CCP's perspective on capital ship overproliferation, then progress has been made.
This would include discussion of:
- Titan overabundance
- Carrier changes - helping find a new role for carriers that people will like
- "Hot-drops" and what can be done about them
- The divide between veterans and new players
- The stratification between powergamers and more casual players
- Effects on 0.0 sovereignty since Starbase Warfare 2.0
- Revisiting new anti-capital features and ships, such as the Heavy Interdictor
[*]Imbalances within capital ship classes themselves (e.g. underpowered Minmatar capitals)
Even if you don't think that anything should be changed at all,
The bottom line here is this: CCP has stated that they feel that capitals are crowding out subcapitals and something has to be done. CCP changing something with capitals is inevitable, and it is in everyone's best interest to use the opportunity presented by the CSM to discuss this issue with the developers.
Neglecting to bring this up at the CSM would be a huge waste of an opportunity. I have a notion that the CSM was created with this issue specifically in mind, among a few other topics.
Show your support if you feel compelled to do so. |
Bane Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.31 23:40:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Bane Glorious on 31/05/2008 23:44:59
This issue is difficult to describe and can have many meanings, but overall it is characterized by a marginalization of subcapital ships when considered alongside capital ships.
The discussion at the CSM would be an exhaustive analysis and discussion of capital ships' effects on the game, what the problems are (if any), and possible approaches to alleviating the problems. Concrete solutions might not be included, but if the overall result is an expansion of CCP's perspective on capital ship overproliferation, then progress has been made.
This would include discussion of:
- Titan overabundance
- Carrier changes - helping find a new role for carriers that people will like
- "Hot-drops" and what can be done about them
- The divide between veterans and new players
- The stratification between powergamers and more casual players
- Effects on 0.0 sovereignty since Starbase Warfare 2.0
- Revisiting new anti-capital features and ships, such as the Heavy Interdictor
[*]Imbalances within capital ship classes themselves (e.g. underpowered Minmatar capitals)
Even if you don't think that anything should be changed at all,
The bottom line here is this: CCP has stated that they feel that capitals are crowding out subcapitals and something has to be done. CCP changing something with capitals is inevitable, and it is in everyone's best interest to use the opportunity presented by the CSM to discuss this issue with the developers.
Neglecting to bring this up at the CSM would be a huge waste of an opportunity. I have a notion that the CSM was created with this issue specifically in mind, among a few other topics.
Show your support if you feel compelled to do so. |
Tojus Illuminati
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.01 00:44:00 -
[3]
Agreed.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.01 00:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Thorradin on 01/06/2008 00:49:56
Remove insurance on Capital ships (or only give default payments).
If insurance was added to help players out, it shouldn't be there for capitals, because if you can fly a capital, you're a big boy/girl now, and don't need your hand held.
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Nephilim Xeno
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.01 00:53:00 -
[5]
/signed
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.06.01 01:03:00 -
[6]
/supportored
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.01 01:27:00 -
[7]
First off, I'll say to take my post with a good-sized grain of salt - I've never even seen a capital on Tranquility, and the only time I've ever fooled around with them outside EFT was on Armageddon Day. I'm getting this from EFT values, from talking to some friends in 0.0, and from what I hear via forums and the grapevine in general.
I'll split up my concerns by class. First up, carriers. Frankly, I don't see a lot of problems with carriers. They lag systems to hell, and as such the old Drone Interfacing fix comes to mind(+1 drone -> +20% drone damage and HP), but aside from that they seem reasonable. They're essentially super-battleships - cost 5-10x as much, gank 50-100% harder, tank about 3x as well, and have about 10x the HP. That seems like a perfectly reasonable endgame generalist ship - cheap enough for the moderately wealthy, functional against any size of target, and hard to kill without being win buttons. The only thing that makes them brutal to fight is the fact that they use high slots for logistics, instead of needing to put weapons there, but that just leads to roles for subcapital support fleets in the form of cap warfare and jamming. Aside from lag fixes, and fixes to make them less good at some of their less in-role functions(i.e., the corporate hangar nerf), leave carriers alone.
Motherships get a lot more intimidating, but at 30x the cost of a carrier, they're supposed to be. They are only tackleable by a limited range of ships/modules, all of which it has the firepower to burn down quickly. Short of a "screw the ammo, just ram it" approach, or lag hell, it's pretty hard to kill a Mom, and they have almost as much firepower in a capital fight as a range-fit Dread to boot. But frankly, for a ship that costs north of 20 billion, this again doesn't seem unreasonable. They're hard to kill, but the loss inflicted when you do seems to balance them out enough for my tastes.
Dreadnoughts are where we start running into problems. Not problems with the ship class itself(aside from the Naglfar, which needs a boost), but problems with the whole structure of 0.0 warfare that make the ship unreasonable. Put simply, as long as sovereignty rests on POSes, the dreadnought class will be far more important than it ought to be, because dreads are the only ships that can take down a POS bubble in reasonable fashion. As such, an invasion of a system consists of putting together a dread fleet, running it headlong into all their POSes, and waiting for their dreads to show up and try to stop you(since nothing else will be able to do the job). The result is blobby, laggy death. And because the grinds through systems are so slow, the natural disadvantages of dreads - they're slow, unwieldy, and live on a diet of pure cargo space - don't really make themselves felt, because there's more than enough time to be leisurely about applying your thousands of DPS. My suspicion is that if you base sovereignty on something other than POSes(like stargates), you'll actually find dreads becoming far less relevant, just because there will be so much less for them to shoot at. After all, a dread fighting battleships does less DPS than a carrier at twice the cost.
Titans are an even bigger problem, of course, but I'm running out of characters for this post(I hate these forums...), so I'll split up my post and address Titans in part 2.
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Fix the forums! |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.01 02:14:00 -
[8]
Okay, titans. The biggest, baddest, most terrifying ships in the game, capable of hammering entire fleets into dust in seconds. And the most important parts of their fit are IStabs and a cloak. If this isn't distilled insanity, I don't know what is - ships that could EBay for the price of a decent car, and they're fit out like Baby's First Iteron. The reason for this is simple, of course - their stats are currently such that the correct way of using them isn't as a command ship, or a mobile station, or anything else of that nature, but rather like a hand grenade - toss it, frag a room, and get the hell out ASAP. There's no conceivable incentive for a Titan to actually fight, because they can only fire one weapon an hour, so they get off that shot and then get as far away from anything that could possibly tackle them as they can. And of course, if they *do* get into a fight, they don't tank any better than a carrier, and don't have any way of actually contributing except by being a magnet for enemy fire.
I've seen a lot of proposed solutions to this - mostly based around killing their ability to safe up and cloak - but none of them appeal to me. A better alternative is to make it so that they don't run at all. Make them ships that can stand in fleet battles and actually have a role to play, and make it so that they can't get out of Dodge just by fitting up a couple of stinking IStabs to dodge the tackle.
The first thing that seems obvious to me is giving them a true supercapital tank, instead of one smaller than a Dread has. A Titan is a massive ship, and it deserves a massive tank of some variety. Either give them enough cap to run an extra repper/booster, or give them a huge rep bonus(20%/level?), or even both. It should be hard as hell to kill one, and not just because they've left the field. Survivability matters here - if they can't dodge a fight, and can't survive one, they become an extinct class, hoarded for their jump bridge. Nobody wants that.
Secondly, the current timer on a Doomsday is 15 seconds. This isn't nearly long enough - it promotes hit-and-run, not stand-and-fight. Make it 60 - you won't see unsupported titan drops that way, I guarantee it. To avoid making the DDD obsolete, due to friendly fire, maybe make it work like a Remote ECM Burst - AOE at a range. It'll still blue-on-blue anything that gets in the way, but it should be easier to keep your support fleet outside its range without forcing them off-grid entirely. I'm not sure that's the right solution, but it's the best I've come up with. To prevent the fleet supporting your Titan from being another four Titans, make the doomsday have a sig radius, but adjust its damage to match. Two million base damage at 10 km sig should keep your titans well apart from each other, while still inflicting around 80k damage base on a battleship, 30k base on a cruiser, and 10k base on a frigate, which should clean out their T1 ships real good. Also, it acts as a minor MWD nerf, if you're so inclined - not especially relevant in fleet, but it can be nice.
On top of that, it needs a way to stay relevant in fleet once the DDD is gone. I'm almost perverse enough to suggest letting it fit a siege module as a solution - 2x the DPS of a dread, baby! - but I don't think that's quite the goal. Similarly, the idea of a "focused annihilation" script for a DDD that deletes the cooldown is appealing, but I'm not sure it's correct. I think the easiest way of doing this would be to make the Titan's gang bonus only apply to ships on-grid with it - it still can't fight for itself, but it can do a number on you with its buddies. Also, it makes it a lot easier to fix the Ragnarok's currently-lame bonus - have it be -10% or even -15% sig per level, and the Gjallarhorn have the biggest AOE of the DDD's, so that your fleet gets a free -50% or -75% doomsday damage.
There's more I might say later, but that's all I have to add on combat. Damn, I'm verbose. Also, here's a thumb for you.
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Fix the forums! |
Aeo IV
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Posted - 2008.06.01 02:38:00 -
[9]
While I understand that CCP feels that capitals are pushing out sub capitals, look at what most modern navies are like.
The USA Navy, for example, has 0 battleships, and several Aircraft carriers. Why? Most commanders realize the usefulness of a multi-functional ship, like a carrier, and the inherent limitations of Battleships and their kin, Dreadnoughts. In real life, as in EVE, the only real use for BSs is to blow up other BSs. However, BSs are easy targeted by bombers.
So here's my suggestion: first, introduce Bombers, they're about the same size as a fighter, but move much slower, but do a great deal of damage, when they drop their 'bombs'. Second: reduce the HPs of fighters to a very low level and increase their spread, while reducing their damage; the role of a bomber should be anti-ship, the role of a fighter should be anti-fighter/interceptor/bomber. The idea is to force the Carrier pilot to have to pick what he or she will fill his or her drone bay with, and what he or she should launch. They'll have to use bombers if they want to deal any real damage to ships like BSes, but will need to escort their bombers to-and-from their targets, unless they want them to be shot down.
On Titans:
I think Titans really, really need to be defined better then "fathers of the fleet" I mean, WTF is that suppose to mean? Does it have hot space sex with motherships who give birth to thousands of little frigates who grow into more titans and Moms? I'd really, really like to see CCP revisit this ship and A, give it a more defined role, and B, make sure it works in that role, and C, NO NERFS, or at least nothing game changing like removing the DDD.
Now, from my understanding, Titans are basically suppose to be most useful to alliances, but, this isn't really helpful. Now, if we look at Titans as if they're suppose to be mobile Stations, then we need to introduce station related bonuses, like the ability to research BPOs and build items like ammo. IF it is suppose to be a mobile Station, then the DDD should only be usable as a defensive measure, and only when the titan is 'deployed' to station mode.
Anyways...
*insert wall of text here*
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.01 03:18:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Aeo IV
*insert wall of text here*
Well, if you insist.
Okay, more Titans. Non-combat Titans this time, though. Titans are, in addition to their role as pimped-out rides for the FC, are supposed to act as mobile stations. As it stands, they just don't. Yes, they have a clone bay and a small hangar, and yes it has some uses, but an outpost it's not. So, in the spirit of the Clone Vat Bay I, here's some potential modules for Titan highslots. All of them are 100,000 grid and 100 CPU, just to make the numbers easy. Also, none of them should require the ship to stop moving - the labs and factories can't really handle it. And before I continue, yes, I acknowledge my likely insanity.
Mobile Refinery I
Allows refining of items in the Corporate Hangar and cargo bay. 0% base efficiency.
Requires Mobile Refinery Operation I (edit skill to add 5% per level efficiency)
Accelerated Mobile Factory I
Adds one factory slot usable by the Titan pilot or a player docked in the maintenance bay. Works at 500% speed, adds 100% wastage.
Requires Mobile Factory Operation I (edit skill to reduce wastage by 10% per level)
Efficient Mobile Factory I
Adds ten factory slots usable by the Titan pilot or a player docked in the maintenance bay. Adds 100% wastage.
Requires Mobile Factory Operation I (edit skill to reduce wastage by 10% per level)
Mobile Laboratory I
Adds one research slot of each type usable by the Titan pilot or a player docked in the maintenance bay. -50% research speed.
Requires Mobile Laboratory Operations I (reduces penalty by 5% per level)
There are few enough Titan pilots that the existing stockpoles of MFO and MRO might be sufficient, but failing that, seed them on market at a couple billion, so none of the investors lose money. And of course, MLO will be the same price(and will require Science V and Laboratory Operation V).
And, last but not least...
Mobile Cynosural Jammer I
Prevents the opening of non-covert cynosural fields in system. Displays on overview for all pilots in system(as a cynosural field).
Requires Propulsion Jamming V, Anchoring V
Well, if they're going to be a mobile station, why not?
*ducks flamethrower*
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Fix the forums! |
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.01 03:28:00 -
[11]
Supported in general.
I'd love to see titans changed to actually be involved in fighting and not just hit and runs.
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Aeo IV
|
Posted - 2008.06.01 04:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Aeo IV
*insert wall of text here*
Well, if you insist.
Okay, more Titans. Non-combat Titans this time, though. Titans are, in addition to their role as pimped-out rides for the FC, are supposed to act as mobile stations. As it stands, they just don't. Yes, they have a clone bay and a small hangar, and yes it has some uses, but an outpost it's not. So, in the spirit of the Clone Vat Bay I, here's some potential modules for Titan highslots. All of them are 100,000 grid and 100 CPU, just to make the numbers easy. Also, none of them should require the ship to stop moving - the labs and factories can't really handle it. And before I continue, yes, I acknowledge my likely insanity.
Mobile Refinery I
Allows refining of items in the Corporate Hangar and cargo bay. 0% base efficiency.
Requires Mobile Refinery Operation I (edit skill to add 5% per level efficiency)
Accelerated Mobile Factory I
Adds one factory slot usable by the Titan pilot or a player docked in the maintenance bay. Works at 500% speed, adds 100% wastage.
Requires Mobile Factory Operation I (edit skill to reduce wastage by 10% per level)
Efficient Mobile Factory I
Adds ten factory slots usable by the Titan pilot or a player docked in the maintenance bay. Adds 100% wastage.
Requires Mobile Factory Operation I (edit skill to reduce wastage by 10% per level)
Mobile Laboratory I
Adds one research slot of each type usable by the Titan pilot or a player docked in the maintenance bay. -50% research speed.
Requires Mobile Laboratory Operations I (reduces penalty by 5% per level)
There are few enough Titan pilots that the existing stockpoles of MFO and MRO might be sufficient, but failing that, seed them on market at a couple billion, so none of the investors lose money. And of course, MLO will be the same price(and will require Science V and Laboratory Operation V).
And, last but not least...
Mobile Cynosural Jammer I
Prevents the opening of non-covert cynosural fields in system. Displays on overview for all pilots in system(as a cynosural field).
Requires Propulsion Jamming V, Anchoring V
Well, if they're going to be a mobile station, why not?
*ducks flamethrower*
I don't, I repeat, DON'T want to see these as modules, they should be inherent ablities native to Titans and other ships, except for the mobile Cynosural jammer
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.01 04:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aeo IV
I don't, I repeat, DON'T want to see these as modules, they should be inherent ablities native to Titans and other ships, except for the mobile Cynosural jammer
Not the response I was expecting, admittedly. The reason I went for modules is that it both allows for customization and it gives Titans something to do with all those useless high slots they have besides throw on random warfare links and smartbombs. It's not like they actually use guns, after all. Making them inherent could work too. The biggest problem with the module-based version is that Titans go offline during downtime, and this does solve that. However, it still seems wrong to me somehow - maybe it's the idea of people sitting inside researching blueprints as the ship is jump bridging in an assault fleet, but that seems a little *too* generalist.
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Fix the forums! |
Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.01 05:06:00 -
[14]
Meh.
Originally by: techzer0
I'm invincible until proven wrong
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Cautet
Precision Engineering
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.02 08:39:00 -
[15]
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:21:00 -
[16]
Too many walls of text here.
Complaining about getting a cap hotdropped on you? Train a capship yourself TBH.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.
There you go. Now that wasn't so hard  |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.06.02 10:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Thorradin
Edited by: Thorradin on 01/06/2008 00:49:56
Remove insurance on Capital ships (or only give default payments).
If insurance was added to help players out, it shouldn't be there for capitals, because if you can fly a capital, you're a big boy/girl now, and don't need your hand held.
How about we remove insurance payouts for ships lost in 0.0. If you can fly around in null sec, you're a big boy/girl now and don't need your hand held.
I agree some balancing is in order, but the OP does not mention the real titan problem, which is their use in tandem with cyno jammers. Outside of that, they are ok.
One thing I think should be mentioned is how POS's are sieged. Any responsible commander will not put dreads into siege without having sub-capitals locking down the gates. The result is that you get dread pilots shooting the structures while the sub-capitals are bored out of their minds.
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RoCkEt X
The Order of Chivalry
Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:03:00 -
[18]
LOL @ removing insurance.
ask capital pilots how many of them insure carriers.... not many. i've had my carrier for a LONG time now, yeah i've been hotdropped ontop of enemies, onto gates and into POS's. but not once have i insured my ship. i fly my carrier with the full knowledge that if i screw up, i will lose 1b or so straight isk. bigger ships have bigger risks.
carriers dont tank massive ammounts of DPS. they are slow, and virtually imobile because of thier lack of gate jumping ability. the drones are 10-20m a pop. and they do regularly pop just fyi. the fuel is expensive, and they cant go long distances on the fuel they can carry. before the nerf you could stuff an itty 5 and a viator in a carrier and jump around all day. now you cant. i used to even have haulers in my bay that had a small POS tower, fuel for about 4 days and guns/ewar batteries. in theory i could have lived in my carrier. no longer possible.
1 scorpion = jammed carrier. then its an oversized freighter with a tank.
capitals have become popular, but they are bound to have. as players progress they will get more skills and want to fly them... so what can be done? not alot.
if theres more of them around then more of them die. fun to kill, industrialists can build and not have to worry about selling them etc etc.
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Voculus
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.02 11:43:00 -
[19]
_________________________________________________________
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.02 13:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
LOL @ removing insurance.
ask capital pilots how many of them insure carriers.... not many. i've had my carrier for a LONG time now, yeah i've been hotdropped ontop of enemies, onto gates and into POS's. but not once have i insured my ship. i fly my carrier with the full knowledge that if i screw up, i will lose 1b or so straight isk. bigger ships have bigger risks.
carriers dont tank massive ammounts of DPS. they are slow, and virtually imobile because of thier lack of gate jumping ability. the drones are 10-20m a pop. and they do regularly pop just fyi. the fuel is expensive, and they cant go long distances on the fuel they can carry. before the nerf you could stuff an itty 5 and a viator in a carrier and jump around all day. now you cant. i used to even have haulers in my bay that had a small POS tower, fuel for about 4 days and guns/ewar batteries. in theory i could have lived in my carrier. no longer possible.
1 scorpion = jammed carrier. then its an oversized freighter with a tank.
capitals have become popular, but they are bound to have. as players progress they will get more skills and want to fly them... so what can be done? not alot.
if theres more of them around then more of them die. fun to kill, industrialists can build and not have to worry about selling them etc etc.
You still get ~300mil back on default insurance if it blows up.
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Buck Starchaser
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Posted - 2008.06.02 13:54:00 -
[21]
I own a dread and a carrier and feel I can talk with some understanding of them. Also I haven't lost a cap yet so my view may be skewed a little. I'm one person buying my own things and use my caps only when reasonably sure that I'm not about to throw them away.
1) titans seem to be a bit of a fumble but I've never encountered one face to face (unless you count it's bridge) so can't realy comment on them so much and am skeptical of others who haven't encountered them and probably don't have any good understanding of them either. From what I have seen though they are making their way into our NPC owned 0.0 homeland where it's much safer for them to nuke gangs that have a very low probability of fielding an anti-titan response... This is how it is in my neck of the woods anyway. This is crap IMO and if there was any serious cap problem then this would be my foundation of the arguement. In the crap 0.0 owned by NPC's most of the gangs are composed of many small ships and rarely cap ships. This is too inviting a target for a ship that can push a button and destroy the entire oposing gang with almost zero risk. My instinct tells me that the DD should have some ballancing mechanism that bases its dammage output on the total ship tonnage currently in the grid. This way if there isn't a significant cap ship presance then the DD will largely fizzle. Consequently this would still correct a battleship swarm attacking a POS seiging party.
2) dreads, I've found are usefull for A) killing POS's B) cynobumping my moros and putting the hurt on me C) in the case of the moros, fighting small ships on a station where it can constantly redock and reload its small drone bay
3) dreads are not usefull for the everyday person or small corp (with the possible exception being the moros). Their prohibitive cost, limited usefullness, and nessessity in numbers for POS warfare excludes smaller alliances from challenging sovernty or playing the dread card in a counter hot-drop.
4) dreads are not overly abundant unless you consider their disproportionate distribution. One dread does nothing but 5 dreads and the ability to survive the financial loss can do something. That doesn't make your team super or anything it's just the point where you can start to carefully flex a little bit. A major alliance would still pee on you because of it's ability to replace dreads.
5) carriers are the ships that seem to be everybodies goal... Especially miners for some reason. It seems that frequently people get a carrier and then out of want to use it for something besides an icon in the station hanger, will use it for ratting or mining. I've been involved in 2 dieing this way and both times it was to battleships. Usually a carrier can't do enough dammage to a battleship quick enough to kill it. The BS simply warps away and reps it's self in warp. It warps over and over to keep the fighters from apearing while it heals sufficiently or until the fighters are reported as withdrawn and placed on a new target that is at the fight. In doing this, battleships can easily kill a stranded carrier without losses. These carrier populations are kept in check without troubble and people keep an eye out for stranded carriers.
6) in my experiance, where I live, carriers are not over abundant. My reasons for assuming this is that carriers are employed mostly hugging the crap out of a station all alone, supporting a POS attack or repair, transporting stuff, and very rarely in a hot-drop. If carriers were over abundant in my area I would see them dropped more often and counter dropped. If caps were crowding out subcaps there would be roaming cap gangs instead of the roaming nano/ECM gangs. If anything is getting crowded out it's the battleships in my opinion as they have so much troubble killing groups of anything smaller than them, are primary targets for jammers, can't warp or move fast enough to keep up, and cost more than smaller ships that can do the job better
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AltBier
Blue.
Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.02 15:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Yorda
Supported in general.
I'd love to see titans changed to actually be involved in fighting and not just hit and runs.
Yes
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Dlardrageth
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.02 18:07:00 -
[23]
Would be especially interesting to see from my POV if the actual cost of the individual capitals ship types (in terms of training and actual ISK) still reflects their usefulness/versatility or has run askew...
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Theel Maas
Errant Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.02 18:13:00 -
[24]
I'm uncertain on the solution, but I agree about the problem.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.02 18:28:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ulstan on 02/06/2008 18:28:17
Good post Bane. EVE turning to Capships Online is a problem that needs to be tackled head on.
Hopefully hot dropping can die a hideous death.
Fully support this being one of the most important topics amongst CCP and the CSM.
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Pezzle
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.02 21:55:00 -
[26]
Players have seen this coming for a long time now. Cap ships online is a serious (and complex) issue.
Support.
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Tusko Hopkins
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.06.02 22:01:00 -
[27]
Supported.
First alternate to CSM.
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Kuroshiro
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Posted - 2008.06.02 22:02:00 -
[28]
Agreed.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.02 22:19:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/06/2008 22:19:09
Important topic certainly. Happy to support it reaching the formal agenda.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 22:23:00 -
[30]
What are we supposed to be discussing? A CSM has already supported it, there is no reason to needlessly stick thumbs up in the thread, you all get to vote on it.
Are we going to have a discussion as required or are you going to vote to have a discussion later?
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