Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:00:00 -
[1]
I have lone forgotten about this since I got a Hulk but I really think the Retreiver needs a boost so that with max skills and a Mining Foreman boosting yields they can hold JUST OVER one cycle of BOTH T2 strip miners with T2 Crystals.
Since I'm training up some new friends in mining I remembered about this.
All Barges should be able to hold one cycle of its strip mining lasers. You can leave out the mining drones as I'll settle for just what the lasers pull in PLEASE!
This ship has to jet can mine....
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:00:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Cloora on 02/06/2008 18:07:08 I have long forgotten about this since I got a Hulk but I really think the Retreiver needs a boost so that with max skills and a Mining Foreman boosting yields they can hold JUST OVER one cycle of BOTH T2 strip miners with T2 Crystals.
Since I'm training up some new friends in mining I remembered about this.
All Barges should be able to hold one cycle of its strip mining lasers. You can leave out the mining drones as I'll settle for just what the lasers pull in PLEASE!
This ship has to jet can mine....
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:03:00 -
[3]
Why would you balance a T1 ship against T2 equipment?
As far as I know, the T1 mining barges all have their cargo holds set to the volume of ice they can mine with all lasers in one cycle, which seems reasonable to me. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:03:00 -
[4]
Why would you balance a T1 ship against T2 equipment?
As far as I know, the T1 mining barges all have their cargo holds set to the volume of ice they can mine with all lasers in one cycle, which seems reasonable to me. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:05:00 -
[5]
/signed
|
Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:05:00 -
[6]
/signed
|
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cloora on 02/06/2008 18:11:03 I'll put T1 strippers on a Retreiver and I bet I'll still overflow the hold without using T1 mining drones. I KNOW I can pull more then 1000m3 per cycle with just T1 equipment.
I pull 1703m3 per laser cycle in my Hulk. This means I get 5109m3 total every 3 minute cycle. My Hulk has a base Cargohold of 8000m3. This is excluding my T2 Mining drones.
On a Retreiver with a Co-CPU and a MLU I it will overflow the hold. I'll have to check to be sure though once i get home and can log in EVE.
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cloora I'll put T1 strippers on a Retreiver and I bet I'll still overflow the hold without using T1 mining drones.
No you don't cloora. Besides, i forgot the retriever has 2 low slots. Fitted with expanded cargoholds you go like 3200m¦
|
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez
No you don't cloora. Besides, i forgot the retriever has 2 low slots. Fitted with expanded cargoholds you go like 3200m¦
I'm am going to confirm this as it has been awhile since I set foot in one. But you don't use Mining Laser Upgrades at all? Useless module for this ship as it just exaggerates the problem.
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cloora I KNOW I can pull more then 1000m3 per cycle with just T1 equipment.
Even if that is possible (which I don't know as I'm not an experienced miner), you can obviously fly Hulks and use T2 mining gear so your mining support skills have to be very good. Put them on par with someone who's using a Retreiver because that's all they can fly and you'll likely find a better fit. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
|
Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 18:15:00 -
[11]
No, i don't use them. I'm just a poor part-time semi afk miner and therefore havent skilled it over level I. Eats up to much CPU to fit even one.
|
AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 19:07:00 -
[12]
Wouldn't stagering the strip miners about 60 seconds apart solve this problem?
|
Jurgen Cartis
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes Why would you balance a T1 ship against T2 equipment?
As far as I know, the T1 mining barges all have their cargo holds set to the volume of ice they can mine with all lasers in one cycle, which seems reasonable to me.
I don't know, same reason combat ships are balanced with regards to what they can do with T2 fits?
Lets see. . . 540m3 base * 1.25 (Mining V) * 1.20 (Astrogeo IV) * 1.12 (Barge IV) * 1.08 (Mining Foreman IV) * 1.05 (1 MLU I) = 1028 m3 per stripper, with T1 gear and reasonable skill assumptions for the Retriever heading towards a Hulk.
Add T2 strips (very reasonable, Mining V is only a 4-5 day train) and T1 Crystals and you hit 1100m3 easy. T2 with T2 and you're at 1200m3. Add a cheap HX-1 implant and you're pushing 1250 per stripper.
This problem is even more ridiculous with the Procurer (though no one will EVER use one with the required skills to do this) where you can get the same yields (potentially 1300m3 per cycle with max skills and an HX-2, and Foreman V in gang) that you need two Expanders to even fit a single cycle.
The Covetor is the only T1 Barge with reasonable cargohold and fittings. It still tanks like a paper towel though.
-------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
The Covetor is the only T1 Barge with reasonable cargohold and fittings. It still tanks like a paper towel though.
I had never noticed that the Covetor has 4k m^3 in cargo space; I always thought it had 3. Interesting. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
voidvim
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:30:00 -
[15]
/signed Salvaging guide:moon materials guide |
cal nereus
Koshaku Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:31:00 -
[16]
I had no problems with the Retriever's cargohold when I flew it, and yes, I was using t1 equipment. I imagine it is a problem for me now that my skills have improved and I can use t2 stuff, but the reality is that I can also use exhumers now. Why bother with a Retriever then? ---
Skills |
Boz Well
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 20:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes Durrrrr
Fixed.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 21:20:00 -
[18]
I just staggered the mining lasers on mine, drag to can every 90sec or so.
|
Tanith YarnDemon
|
Posted - 2008.06.02 23:29:00 -
[19]
Boost the RETRIEVER cargohold?
Try flying a Rokh ffs! You _have_ to stagger all the lasers and that means you have to empty your cargo every 15 seconds! Quadrupling the size of the cargo would let it atleast hold one cycle, but to be honest, I reckon it should have atleast the same cargo as the covetor, after all similiar yields similiar cargo?
THIS ship has to jet can mine.... =(
|
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 00:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Boost the RETRIEVER cargohold?
Try flying a Rokh ffs! You _have_ to stagger all the lasers and that means you have to empty your cargo every 15 seconds! Quadrupling the size of the cargo would let it atleast hold one cycle, but to be honest, I reckon it should have atleast the same cargo as the covetor, after all similiar yields similiar cargo?
THIS ship has to jet can mine.... =(
You gotta be kidding me. I hope you are trolling. The Rokh is a Tier 3 long range rail platform that happens to be the best BS for mining if you so choose to do that. Its cargohold does not need consideration for mining.
However, when used for missions even with 425mm rails it does need quite a bit of cargo for differant range ammos.
But yeah back to the topic at hand...
When I DID fly a retreiver, I had to stagger the frickin lasers to not overflow the hold. That was with my skills at the time. I was a big proponant of buffing the cargo of that dang ship back then, but then I forgot about it because I got into a Covetor and then a Hulk 24 hours late. Thats another issue of mine. Can the Covetor get its skill requirements lowered to Astro V, Mining Barge IV instead of V for both? That is kinda dumb that once you get into a Covetor you only need to train Exhumers to III and then you are in a Hulk which only costs what? 150 million ISK now? (I bought mine when they were still 500 million ISK)
So yeah, I brought this up now because my friends who are getting into EVE, one is a miner and like to mine. He is in a Retreiver now and that reminded me about the stupid cargohold of these things.
BUFF the cargohold of this ship!
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
|
Tanith YarnDemon
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 00:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cloora
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Boost the RETRIEVER cargohold?
Try flying a Rokh ffs! You _have_ to stagger all the lasers and that means you have to empty your cargo every 15 seconds! Quadrupling the size of the cargo would let it atleast hold one cycle, but to be honest, I reckon it should have atleast the same cargo as the covetor, after all similiar yields similiar cargo?
THIS ship has to jet can mine.... =(
You gotta be kidding me. I hope you are trolling. The Rokh is a Tier 3 long range rail platform that happens to be the best BS for mining if you so choose to do that. Its cargohold does not need consideration for mining.
However, when used for missions even with 425mm rails it does need quite a bit of cargo for differant range ammos.
But yeah back to the topic at hand...
When I DID fly a retreiver, I had to stagger the frickin lasers to not overflow the hold. That was with my skills at the time. I was a big proponant of buffing the cargo of that dang ship back then, but then I forgot about it because I got into a Covetor and then a Hulk 24 hours late. Thats another issue of mine. Can the Covetor get its skill requirements lowered to Astro V, Mining Barge IV instead of V for both? That is kinda dumb that once you get into a Covetor you only need to train Exhumers to III and then you are in a Hulk which only costs what? 150 million ISK now? (I bought mine when they were still 500 million ISK)
So yeah, I brought this up now because my friends who are getting into EVE, one is a miner and like to mine. He is in a Retreiver now and that reminded me about the stupid cargohold of these things.
BUFF the cargohold of this ship!
So just because it's shipclass doesn't have a mining in it's name it's not entitled to mine? It's a ship designed to utilize miners perfectly. Saying that it can only use rails is horribly narrowminded - or else it wouldn't have the launcher slots or the ability to mine as it does.
Even worse since the retrieverpilots have the option to progress into a hulk, while we the rokhpilots have no viable option to expand into. Hence the highend for our skillpath have to empty our cargo once per 15 seconds!
Staggering lasers is a pain in the firstplace, but living with the 60 second cycles rather than the 180 second ones I can live with. But if you're going to nerf the rokh (relatively) further - by making it's main rivals even better - it's just unacceptable. If oyu fear it will overpower it for it's other uses - give it a seperate ore bay or something. But then again the mining barges are one of the best baitships there are so I guess it's not more than fair that the Rokh is kept on par(offensive - defensive ships on par).
I like to mine, and I made the educated choice of going for the slightly less cargo for slightly less training time. If they now buff the cargo for the barges my training time has been wasted. Why should the game be suited to fit your friend rather then me or my bretheren?
|
Doc Mexallon
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:22:00 -
[22]
I'm mining in a Retriever now, and pull in 1,902m¦ ore every three-minute cycle. I've got both low slots in my Retriever empty as I two Expanded Cargoholds won't be enough to hold a second 3-minute cycle, and adding a MLU will just waste the ore. It kind of works perfect for me as I fill the hold every 3 minutes, move it out to the jetcan for the hauler and repeat 3 minutes later. I can even push it to 5 mins 50 secs before moving two loads out, giving me enough time to go to toilet or do something.
I imagine I could put a MLU and a Cargo Expander together and nicely fill up the hold per cycle again, especially since my skills aren't maxed (astrogeology IV, Barge III) but for now I'm just enjoying it.
Of course, I mine in a group (mining output drops to about 1,750m¦ when I mine alone because I lose the Foreman bonus), so all I need is enough space to hold one fully cycle and as yet do not need to stagger my laser cycles. The Retriever is only a stopgap while I aim for the Hulk anyway.
Having said that, more cargo space is always nice, although I don't think the Retriever is particularly worse off with its base 2,000m¦ cargo space.
|
Grarr Dexx
Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:35:00 -
[23]
You're a bad bad troll. Rokh was never designed to mine even 0.1m¦ of Ore, buffing it's cargohold would only boost the capability of it carrying cap charges and it would be horribly broken.
|
cal nereus
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 07:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: cal nereus on 03/06/2008 07:50:53
Fairness between barges and battleships doesn't matter. The developers shouldn't even have to think about Rokh-flying miners when they consider dealing with mining barges. If you feel like your skill time was wasted if the Retriever has its cargohold buffed, that's your problem, not CCP's. You took a gamble (you and I both know none of these ships are set in stone in their specific qualities) and if it turns out your gamble was less than you hoped it would be, well, that's why it's a gamble.
That said... I don't care either way regarding the Retriever's hold. I didn't have a problem, but then again, I was using pretty basic equipment when I had a Retriever. ---
Skills |
Thenoran
Knights of MADD
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 09:35:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Thenoran on 03/06/2008 09:35:30
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Boost the RETRIEVER cargohold?
Try flying a Rokh ffs! You _have_ to stagger all the lasers and that means you have to empty your cargo every 15 seconds! Quadrupling the size of the cargo would let it atleast hold one cycle, but to be honest, I reckon it should have atleast the same cargo as the covetor, after all similiar yields similiar cargo?
THIS ship has to jet can mine.... =(
I flew a Rokh myself, mining 3700m3 with the MDCML II's alone, without drones (with drones I got over 4000m3). Yeh its 625m3 cargohold sucked but it was enough for the yield of one laser, but it could tank anything, you would be perfectly safe in Empire, even from suicide gankers. If you simply staggered them the first time you activate them with about 10 second intervals, all you need to do is drag the ore to your can after each cycle.
As to the OP, both the Retriever and Mackinaw are lacking in more ways then one. Their CPU is truly terrible (the same as a Procurer/Skiff) and their holds are damned small for the job they do.
Still, a Retriever with two cargohold expanders and maybe a Huge can (1950m3 one, usable if you stagger your lasers) would add some space. ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Segge Bolled
Rainy Day Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 12:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cloora You gotta be kidding me. I hope you are trolling. The Rokh is a Tier 3 long range rail platform that happens to be the best BS for mining if you so choose to do that. Its cargohold does not need consideration for mining.
I use one of mine for salvaging missions, salvage rigs and all
|
Andreask14
Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 12:59:00 -
[27]
4 words: Cargo Hold Optimization Rigs
Sig offline |
Cloora
Black River Industries
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 16:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Andreask14 4 words: Cargo Hold Optimization Rigs
Two words: Too expensive!
50 million ISK on a ship that costs what? 8 million ISK? I put them on my Hulk of course but on a retreiver? total Waste and nothing a n00b will spend that much ISK on.
This is my Opinion and not that of Black River Industries or any of its members. |
Tanith YarnDemon
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 18:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cloora
Originally by: Andreask14 4 words: Cargo Hold Optimization Rigs
Two words: Too expensive!
50 million ISK on a ship that costs what? 8 million ISK? I put them on my Hulk of course but on a retreiver? total Waste and nothing a n00b will spend that much ISK on.
Furthermore proving my point. The Rokh is 140m off the batch! And then 150m of rigs on top of that!!
The Retriever should be more expensive, and require Mining Barge and astrometrics IV so that there is reason to use Procurer. Hulk should require exhumers V. Rokh should get it's cargo atleast quadrupled, if price is to remain.
|
Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.06.03 18:22:00 -
[30]
I do agree whole-heartedly about the cargo on these ships. A small boost would be nice, maybe a ten percent boost to the cargo holds of the Procurer and Retriever?
A bit off-topic, but I always wondered why the Procurer even exists, short of giving the art teams something to make. It's cute, quaint even, but I've never looked at it seriously as a mining ship.
With comparable skills, an Osprey / Scythe [The Minmatar support cruiser, I forget the name so I may be wrong] will more than likely out-mine this poor, forgotten creature. Granted, with those you are doomed to jet can mining, but the yield is still there.
EVE Online has come a long way, maybe it is time to remove the mining bonuses on the Osprey and the Scythe. These were cruisers meant for low-cost support.
Thats my two cents.
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |