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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 18:32:00 -
[1]
Seriously, why would anyone ever fly one of these things? It is worse than a mining cruiser in every possible way except cargo capacity and possibly price (Once you factor in the strip miner), and even then, not by much. It has no capacitor, can barely defend itself against belt rats, and has a laughable mining output.
Recommend something be done about the uselessness of this ship if mining is looked at by the CSM. I would love to see it get some sort of bonus that would make it actually useful to a mining operation; perhaps a stripminer range bonus so it can pick off that lone asteroid 5km away from all the Hulks. It definitely needs a capacitor boost; as is, it caps itself on long warps more often than frigates do.
Support Procurer love!
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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 18:32:00 -
[2]
Seriously, why would anyone ever fly one of these things? It is worse than a mining cruiser in every possible way except cargo capacity and possibly price (Once you factor in the strip miner), and even then, not by much. It has no capacitor, can barely defend itself against belt rats, and has a laughable mining output.
Recommend something be done about the uselessness of this ship if mining is looked at by the CSM. I would love to see it get some sort of bonus that would make it actually useful to a mining operation; perhaps a stripminer range bonus so it can pick off that lone asteroid 5km away from all the Hulks. It definitely needs a capacitor boost; as is, it caps itself on long warps more often than frigates do.
Support Procurer love!
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Mighty Ahti
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mighty Ahti on 02/06/2008 19:24:31 I'm supporting the topic because I agree that the procurer is useless, it takes a lot less time to train for a cruiser that can do the same amount of mining if not more, and it only takes another day or two before you can move up to retriever.
However, I think the better way to deal with it is to remove the ship altogether. Without some kind of change that would require some rebalancing of all the other barges, there's little you can do to make the procurer a viable mining vessel..
Cruisers would still provide better yield if you change the range, so making it a better miner would be the obvious change, but again you can't do that easily without having to rebalance the other barges. Thus i suggest just removing the ship completely.
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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:40:00 -
[4]
Well, you also need the Procurer to invent the (also pretty useless) Skiff.
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Mighty Ahti
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Posted - 2008.06.02 19:55:00 -
[5]
With regards to training up for the next in line, there's no reason you wouldn't spend the extra day or so training for the mackinaw and just getting that right off the bat is there? I believe that it's in the same boat as the procurer, except it's slightly more useful since it can deepcore mine whereas cruisers cannot.
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Theel Maas
Errant Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.02 20:42:00 -
[6]
The Skiff is the best mercoxit miner in the game. The Mackinaw is the best ice miner in the game. They serve different purposes. Don't drag exhumers into a discussion on the Procurer. This isn't much different from the tech 1 industrials that become blockade runners. As tech 1 ships they are nearly without merit, but as tech 2 they have a role.
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Buck Starchaser
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Posted - 2008.06.02 23:26:00 -
[7]
It doesn't need to be usefull. It is designed to be replaced in what? 16 hours? a day of training? When the navatis gets a hardcore buff that makes it a preffered T1 frig over the tier 3 ones then I'll support the tier 1 barge having a reason to live.
Until then... wise people will mine in a mining cruiser because it outperforms a tier 1 mining barge. And if they have the skills they will mine in a dominix because it outmines a retriever and sometimes a covetor.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.03 01:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Buck Starchaser It doesn't need to be usefull. It is designed to be replaced in what? 16 hours? a day of training? When the navatis gets a hardcore buff that makes it a preffered T1 frig over the tier 3 ones then I'll support the tier 1 barge having a reason to live.
Until then... wise people will mine in a mining cruiser because it outperforms a tier 1 mining barge. And if they have the skills they will mine in a dominix because it outmines a retriever and sometimes a covetor.
just not true. with equivalent skills once you can get into a covetor it beats even a rokh at mining. granted the rokh fits a much stiffer tank but just ore m3 wise even the great rokh best of the mining bs loses (since the mlu nerf).
domi is second and normally preferred for the drone bay. domis can defend themselves. rokhs just have to take the beating.
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MadMax Miner
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Posted - 2008.06.03 02:11:00 -
[9]
You can not compare BS to mining barges because they are built for different mission roles. yea you will have a better out put with a BS with ****ty mining skills then a procurer with ****ty mining skills. Once your skills improve each ships use improves also. You need the procure so you will know how to operate its tech II version and if you think the skiff sucks then once again you are not using it for its intended mission. Same stupid comparison is made that you will make more money doing missions then mining.....and yes you will once your at a high enough skill and mission level. Once again however both serve different roles.
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Buck Starchaser
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Posted - 2008.06.03 03:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: procurement specialist
Originally by: Buck Starchaser It doesn't need to be usefull. It is designed to be replaced in what? 16 hours? a day of training? When the navatis gets a hardcore buff that makes it a preffered T1 frig over the tier 3 ones then I'll support the tier 1 barge having a reason to live.
Until then... wise people will mine in a mining cruiser because it outperforms a tier 1 mining barge. And if they have the skills they will mine in a dominix because it outmines a retriever and sometimes a covetor.
just not true. with equivalent skills once you can get into a covetor it beats even a rokh at mining. granted the rokh fits a much stiffer tank but just ore m3 wise even the great rokh best of the mining bs loses (since the mlu nerf).
domi is second and normally preferred for the drone bay. domis can defend themselves. rokhs just have to take the beating.
I do mining as more of a secondary profesion so although I have a good hulk skillset I also have top drone skills, gal BS V, and lots of miner upgrades fitted. I'm able to tank and kill the BS rats for my covetor buddy with his T2 strippers but I was also putting more ore in the can inbetween spawns. Perhaps he was slacking or something but my point is that if a ship doesn't fit your needs you don't use that ship. Right? You don't need to petition every variable of the game that doesn't work acceptably for your circumstances. You train and save and research and discover the equipment and techniques that are allready there so you can do the best at what you want to do.
The procurer can probably mine ice more efficiently than a hulk btw... assuming the belt is under attack from the dreaded jihadswarm, the hulk will be the target and the proc will probably survive. If it does die it will be such an insignificant loss compaired to the hulk (Ice hulks fit expander rigs so they can mine for about 30 min without having to dump, making them really expensive) that the proc pilot has still successfully mined ice more efficiently than the hulk pilot. There, I've given the procurer a strong buff. King me.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.03 03:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Buck Starchaser I do mining as more of a secondary profesion so although I have a good hulk skillset I also have top drone skills, gal BS V, and lots of miner upgrades fitted. I'm able to tank and kill the BS rats for my covetor buddy with his T2 strippers but I was also putting more ore in the can inbetween spawns. Perhaps he was slacking or something but my point is that if a ship doesn't fit your needs you don't use that ship. Right? You don't need to petition every variable of the game that doesn't work acceptably for your circumstances. You train and save and research and discover the equipment and techniques that are allready there so you can do the best at what you want to do.
That's the issue - it's not that the Procurer doesn't fit his play style, it's that it doesn't fit anybody's play style. It's a dedicated mining ship that mines worse than a cruiser, and not even a mining cruiser(a Thorax outmines it by 72%, for example). The only conceivable reason to buy a Procurer is to increase your chances of getting a Skiff BPC.
Originally by: Buck Starchaser The procurer can probably mine ice more efficiently than a hulk btw... assuming the belt is under attack from the dreaded jihadswarm, the hulk will be the target and the proc will probably survive. If it does die it will be such an insignificant loss compaired to the hulk (Ice hulks fit expander rigs so they can mine for about 30 min without having to dump, making them really expensive) that the proc pilot has still successfully mined ice more efficiently than the hulk pilot. There, I've given the procurer a strong buff. King me.
No, you've come up with a flimsy excuse about how, since the ship is too pathetic for even Goons to want to kill it, it's better. Real feat of deductive reasoning, there.
I really hope you're sarcastic/trolling... ------------------ Fix the forums! |
ceyriot
Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.03 04:09:00 -
[12]
Its useless because its SUPPOSED to be useless...Its a t1 mining cruiser, that takes very little to train for...therefore, you get very little in return. If you're whining because you want to use one, take the extra 3 hours and get a retriever.
Faction Store - Killboard |
Buck Starchaser
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Posted - 2008.06.03 04:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto The only conceivable reason to buy a Procurer is to increase your chances of getting a Skiff BPC.
There's a second good use for the ship.
I may use a bit of sarcasm at times to help bring my point across but I'm really quite serious when it comes to game changes. My main gripe and reason for replying is that the OP doesn't recognize the usefullness of this ship. Instead of finding a use for this ship or selecting another one more suitable for his intended use he is demanding that the ship be changed to be inline with his assumed needs.
As a matter of fact, the ice mining quip is based on a true story. A guy in my corp has an alt that mines ice in a procurer. He did it because goons were killing mackanaws, Hulks, and covetors on sight. He can use a hulk and iceminers at lvl V but he chose the proc. He would anounce when other ships in the belt were getting ganked but he didn't get ganked. Having a procurer mining ice means both that you're not afk for a long time so you see when bad things are happening, And you're the least desireable target so you have plenty of time to flee before it's your turn to die.
In comparison to that, I got another acount and trained it from scratch to mine ice. I got that charactor a cargo-rigged hulk and subsequently was suicide ganked in an ice belt. After months of training, a few hundred million in inplants, skills, ship, rigs, modules, and 2 weeks of mining ice for the entire duration I was awake... I lost my ship and retrained my alt to do other stuff. He ended up mining more ice than me and never lost his ship. That's nobodies fault but my own but it proves my point. I should have found the right ship for the job. The wisdom I've gained from that experience I'd like to shair with you and the OP.
Sorry for sounding like a sarcastic troll earlier. I often come across that way but I generally don't commit to typing something unless I feel I've got something important to say... Even if I can't word it right all in one post :P
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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.03 05:30:00 -
[14]
Would like to point out that I have no particular need for a Procurer, having been able to fly a Hulk for longer than I've been able to fly a battleship. I'm simply pointing out that there IS no use for it - It's totally, completely, thoroughly useless for everything except Skiff invention.
I challenge anyone to find a legitimate, everyday use for this ship. I'm not interested in wild situationals, just in things you might actually consider buying this ship for.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.03 06:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Buck Starchaser
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto The only conceivable reason to buy a Procurer is to increase your chances of getting a Skiff BPC.
There's a second good use for the ship.
I may use a bit of sarcasm at times to help bring my point across but I'm really quite serious when it comes to game changes. My main gripe and reason for replying is that the OP doesn't recognize the usefullness of this ship. Instead of finding a use for this ship or selecting another one more suitable for his intended use he is demanding that the ship be changed to be inline with his assumed needs.
As a matter of fact, the ice mining quip is based on a true story. A guy in my corp has an alt that mines ice in a procurer. He did it because goons were killing mackanaws, Hulks, and covetors on sight. He can use a hulk and iceminers at lvl V but he chose the proc. He would anounce when other ships in the belt were getting ganked but he didn't get ganked. Having a procurer mining ice means both that you're not afk for a long time so you see when bad things are happening, And you're the least desireable target so you have plenty of time to flee before it's your turn to die.
In comparison to that, I got another acount and trained it from scratch to mine ice. I got that charactor a cargo-rigged hulk and subsequently was suicide ganked in an ice belt. After months of training, a few hundred million in inplants, skills, ship, rigs, modules, and 2 weeks of mining ice for the entire duration I was awake... I lost my ship and retrained my alt to do other stuff. He ended up mining more ice than me and never lost his ship. That's nobodies fault but my own but it proves my point. I should have found the right ship for the job. The wisdom I've gained from that experience I'd like to shair with you and the OP.
Sorry for sounding like a sarcastic troll earlier. I often come across that way but I generally don't commit to typing something unless I feel I've got something important to say... Even if I can't word it right all in one post :P
My bad - I heard JihadSwarm was killing all ORE ships, not just the 3 most common. In that case, his decision does make some sense, though it'd still make more sense to use a Retriever instead.
That said, what they've done with Exhumers is a good idea of what I think barges should look like. Each of them has a clearly defined role, and is fairly good at it. Now, I'm not suggesting that ice and Mercoxit are what the Procurer and Retreiver should be doing, but what if the smaller barges had bigger tanks and holds? Give people some actual choice - Coveter is still best for isk/hour, but the others are easier to use. There's probably a better idea to be had, but that's a start, IMO. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.03 12:20:00 -
[16]
its like trying to find a really good use for the 50k and less frigates. they are very very cheap and if someone is going straight to barges and can't afford a retriever yet it gives them something to mine with in the mean time.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:31:00 -
[17]
Agreed, the procuror has about as much use as... as... a Burst!
I.e. no use at all. In fact, a Burst can almost equal it's mining output (sarcasm), but a crappy miner in a Scythe/Osprey can flat outmine it without half trying. In fact, a crappy miner in a mining cruiser can almost equal a Retriever.
How about keeping the 1 strip miner, but giving the Procuror a minor industrial role... give it the ability to compress ore. Only one 'factory' slot, it does not need to be in anchored mode, and takes 2x the time to compress ore.
Or allow it to immediately refine what it mines at 40% efficiency (ore never lands in the hold, the refined ores do).
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Marcus Gideon
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.23 12:40:00 -
[18]
Medium/Heavy Mining Drones...
Procurer/Skiff = Drone Boat
Ideas? ---
Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. |
Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:25:00 -
[19]
Yes... yes it does suck. Having it available to be invented into the Skiff does not seem like enough justification. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Tarminic
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.23 13:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tarminic on 23/07/2008 13:45:11 Aye, the Procurer is a terrible ship.
The problem is a bit endemic of mining barges in general, but the procurer is the worst off because it really has no role because there are many other ships that can do the same thing it does at: 1. Lower cost 2. Less training time
This makes the miner in me cry big salty emo tears.
Perhaps it can be turned into the official low-sec mining barge? Increase it's agility, add a second high-slot for a cloak, something like that. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3) |
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Anaalys Fluuterby
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Posted - 2008.07.23 15:59:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 23/07/2008 15:59:21 The procuror is absolutely pathetic. At least with every other "worthless" ship there is some redeeming factor, this one has none.
There was a thread on it a few months back with one of the Devs chiming in saying they were looking at it. Things being rattled around were:
1) LowSec ninja-miner. Increased agility and speed, maintain most of the current stats. Possible bonus to cloakig devices. 2) Bulk miner. Large cargo hold, still one strip miner. 3) Dedicated Veld boat, much like its T2 cousin.
Not sure where it should go, but it definately needs something. -------------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:06:00 -
[22]
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Bane Glorious
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:33:00 -
[23]
Yeah, the Procurer is pretty pointless. |
Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.07.23 16:39:00 -
[24]
Making it a ninjaminer would be good, although it would be pretty useless in lowsec unless they make the lowsec ores more valuable than the hisec ones.
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Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2008.07.23 21:18:00 -
[25]
Possibly the single most useless ship in eve, it needs ANYTHING to make it usable. Seriously.
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.07.23 21:38:00 -
[26]
give it heavy bonuses to mining low ends. heavy as end better at mining veld than a hulk and maybe it would see use. That is a massive bonus though.
i support the procurer = drone boat miner.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.23 22:33:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 23/07/2008 22:34:10
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Medium/Heavy Mining Drones...
Procurer/Skiff = Drone Boat
Ideas?
Since no one reads more than the last 2 posts anyways. "I don't care about the WHOLE thread, just what the last guy said... I'll respond to that!" --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "People don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
kyoukoku
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Posted - 2008.07.23 22:48:00 -
[28]
/signage
It does indeed suck big-time but it's such a cute little thing it'd e a shame to dump it completely so it needs overhauling bigtime
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.07.24 15:33:00 -
[29]
More like a [miner] issue! _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.07.24 16:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 23/07/2008 22:34:10
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Medium/Heavy Mining Drones...
Procurer/Skiff = Drone Boat
Ideas?
Since no one reads more than the last 2 posts anyways. "I don't care about the WHOLE thread, just what the last guy said... I'll respond to that!"
medium and heavy mining drones are long overdue imo. I think retooling the procurer with 1 laser turret to get drones bonuses would make it worth something. The t2 version could even lose its strip miner and get a bigger bay and 50%/level drone mining bonus. (remember kids a 250% bonus to 5 heavy mining mining drones would still have to compete with a hulk using 3 strip miners as well and the medium drones.)
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