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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.04 02:01:00 -
[1]
In the reasonably distant past ECM modules were fitted to all kinds of ships and were quite effective. Then ECM modules themselves were nerfed so they became impractical on non-ECM bonused ships.
Then much later most ECM bonused ships were boosted to make them more useful using the lower starting strength ECM.
In a recent patch RSDs were changed in two ways, they were reduced to 2/3 of their previous effectiveness and they were given scripts so they affect only one of two aspects to full strength or both to half strength. I'm not arguing that this was a bad change as it wasn't. RSDs were being fitted to all sorts of ships (Rapiers, Ravens, Domis etc.) making them similar to ECMs of yore.
However now the RSD bonused ships are a bit lacking just like the ECM boats used to be. They cannot keep a single target from doing damage like a falcon can or even like a pilgrim can to a turret based ship.
I ask that the bonuses to RSD ships be looked at to make them more useful in small gangs. A strength boost returning them to pre-nerf strength on those ships would not be overpowered given the scripting changes.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:12:00 -
[2]
I really hope that will be put on the table when talking with CCP staff. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Zeknichov
Dark Prophecy Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.04 03:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Zeknichov on 04/06/2008 03:52:28 /signed.
Personally I would like to see ranges of RSDs increased so RSD specialized ships can hit at 250KM fairly easily. This would make RDS ships a counter to sniping BS as well as a counter to ECM ships. As it is right now there is no reason to use an RSD over an ECM in any scenario. People like to say that RSDs complement ECM, well this is true but two ECM is more effective than ECM+RSD.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.06.04 04:05:00 -
[4]
I remember flying my arazu just a few weeks ago. It's a nice toy to just mess with people while they are ratting. But both you and your target knows that the arazu can't much more than just toy with them.
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.04 05:43:00 -
[5]
Yeah, I don't know why it never occurs to them to exempt ewar-specialized ships when they nerf ewar due to too many people fitting the ewar to non-specialized ships.
In other words, /signed
-- Let Us Avoid Systems Via Autopilot |
MirrorGod
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.06.04 05:46:00 -
[6]
Poasting foar boost
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Zorda
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Posted - 2008.06.04 05:59:00 -
[7]
yes
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.04 05:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Goumindong on 04/06/2008 06:01:49 We already have two "issue" threads on this
Anyway, for more info on what caused the problem, see Here
ED: Short answer = Boost to previous effectiveness just might overpower them.[87% damps with an Eos and rigs from previous 44% base strength(assuming 22% scripted to 44)]
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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.04 06:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 04/06/2008 06:01:49 We already have two "issue" threads on this
Anyway, for more info on what caused the problem, see Here
ED: Short answer = Boost to previous effectiveness just might overpower them.[87% damps with an Eos and rigs from previous 44% base strength(assuming 22% scripted to 44)]
[ISSUE] Goumindong is dumb
I don't give a crap about your stupid math thread. This is about the relation between what happened to ECM and what is happening to RSDs so hopefully RSDs won't wait years for a fix on bonused ships.
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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.04 07:16:00 -
[10]
Ooh, look, yet another RSD thread.
Can't we keep to one?
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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.04 07:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Allaria Kriss Ooh, look, yet another RSD thread.
Can't we keep to one?
Nope. The current Assembly Hall structure is worthless anyway. So why not make it more so?
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Sariyah
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2008.06.04 09:35:00 -
[12]
.
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Viragarus
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Posted - 2008.06.04 09:35:00 -
[13]
rsd, would be nice
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Toramii
Le Moulin Rouge
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Posted - 2008.06.04 12:15:00 -
[14]
Yay
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Kasarandon
Suzaku Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.04 12:23:00 -
[15]
Supported.
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Nariana Verex
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.04 14:27:00 -
[16]
I think I voted for one of the other RSD threads. I might as well vote here too. Signed. :)
Do the right thing. Don't leave shuttles in space. |
winthrowe
Node Alpha Defense Research
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Posted - 2008.06.04 18:39:00 -
[17]
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Lachrymology
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Posted - 2008.06.05 15:09:00 -
[18]
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Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.05 15:39:00 -
[19]
It just makes sense.
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.05 15:51:00 -
[20]
--
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Amarr Holymight
Bat Country Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.06 06:45:00 -
[21]
Waterfowl I like the cut of your jib. /signed my good sir.
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Amarr Holymight
Bat Country Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.06 06:46:00 -
[22]
there ...
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Lucias Trask
Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.06.06 06:50:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lucias Trask on 06/06/2008 06:50:56 I fully support/endorse this Goon product.
Second best idea by far from the goons on this forum.
The other 20000 were terrible ideas but this one delivers.
Let me damp from 250km right next to the falcon and Arazus will be worth a damn again. [PANIC] |
Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.06.06 06:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 04/06/2008 06:01:49 We already have two "issue" threads on this
Anyway, for more info on what caused the problem, see Here
ED: Short answer = Boost to previous effectiveness just might overpower them.[87% damps with an Eos and rigs from previous 44% base strength(assuming 22% scripted to 44)]
game set match,
anyone approving this is an illiterate fool--waterfowl can suck my pilgrim ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
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Savesti Kyrsst
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:17:00 -
[25]
These ships are transparently underpowered at present, and I speak as someone who has no intention of flying them in any case. _
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Zorok
LEGI0N F.E.A.R Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.06 19:27:00 -
[26]
I concur with this...When they made the nerf to all the EWAR modules, it definitely took the bite out of all the recon ships with the exception of the Caldari recons (ECM modules don't use scripts). Recon ships should get a much-needed boost to their ECM capabilities to compensate for the script nerf. I sign this wholeheartedly... CCP please fix this issue ASAP!!
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Destrukter
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:02:00 -
[27]
the arazu is only good for cyno right now
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Dani Leone
A Dark Cloud Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:04:00 -
[28]
/signed
Specialised RSD ships should be nasty and horrible to face off against not just a bit of an annoyance. -----------------------------
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Amarr Holymight
Bat Country Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.06 20:44:00 -
[29]
Here's my suggestion for the Arazu
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 20% bonus to warp disruptor rangeper level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level
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XLR Eight
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.06 23:32:00 -
[30]
supported
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Zorok
LEGI0N F.E.A.R Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.07 07:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight Here's my suggestion for the Arazu
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 20% bonus to warp disruptor rangeper level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level
I like all of your suggestions except I think that giving it a 15-20% bonus per level to Remote Sensor Dampener Effectiveness would be a bit better.
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Amarr Holymight
Bat Country Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.07 08:25:00 -
[32]
Cool I don't mind as long as its increased ;)
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.07 11:18:00 -
[33]
Damps need a boost now. They were overpowered before, but now they are even underpowered on ships with the bonuses for them. |
TimMc
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.06.07 11:26:00 -
[34]
Double the bonuses. |
Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.07 17:39:00 -
[35]
supporting this ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
Temo Jick
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Posted - 2008.06.07 19:22:00 -
[36]
I Just finished training for my Arazu before taking a brake from eve. Got Back to find it had become useless. Sure would be nice to do something with it one day.
It is always darkest just before the dawn. Wise man say this best time to steal neighbors newspaper. |
Kirja
R.u.S.H. Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.07 20:51:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Kirja on 07/06/2008 20:51:26 signed
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Elmis
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.07 23:10:00 -
[38]
Supported.
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.07 23:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zorok
I like all of your suggestions except I think that giving it a 15-20% bonus per level to Remote Sensor Dampener Effectiveness would be a bit better.
No, it would not. A 15% bonus per level would put the celestis at a maximum damping ability of 94%. A 20% bonus would put it at 107%.
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Marcellus Corteaz
Alt Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.08 03:39:00 -
[40]
When I see a curse, a falcon, or a rapier on overview, I think "oh no, not this **** again". When I see an arazu, I load short-range ammo, click "approach", and plan the derisive comment I'll put on the killmail.
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Maobechev
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 00:46:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Maobechev on 11/06/2008 00:46:32 Everytime I fly my Arazu in gangs everyone tells me to stop flying Arazus. They'll complain endlessly about how useless I am and how flying anything else would be better.
Please make the hurt stop.
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Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 00:59:00 -
[42]
agreeing - gallente really need this to be fixed
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Xerpex
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 08:18:00 -
[43]
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Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.11 11:28:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Euriti on 11/06/2008 11:27:37 Supporting this
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.11 11:48:00 -
[45]
Edited by: sakana on 11/06/2008 11:51:36 Yea, theres very little reason to fly the gallente RSD ships these days.
edit: forget the :thumbsup:
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2008.06.14 22:32:00 -
[46]
i hardly see arazu/lachesis any more in combat :(
guide to game time codes |
Cuchulin
DEFCON. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.16 13:09:00 -
[47]
after the damp nerv and the new bonuses to interceptors these ships are more the less useless today...plz give them there role on the battlefield back
Cuchulin
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Twisted Mechanic
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Posted - 2008.06.23 02:34:00 -
[48]
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Aneu Angellus
Revival.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 03:03:00 -
[49]
________________
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Jurgen Cartis
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.06.23 03:14:00 -
[50]
Pre-nerf strength would be overpowered when you bring rigs and links into the picture. I don't ever want to see an 80% strength damp.
I do support buffing the bonus on these ships to 7.5% though. This makes for 58% damps with skills at V, 64% or so with two rigs, 73% if you stack a mindlinked Eos on top of that. I'd say that's about balanced, the ship is definitely giving something up for that power, but anything downrange of those damps will be severely hampered. 10%/level would bring back 70% damps when rigged, but bring a mindlinked Eos into the picture and we're up to 80% damps, and I think most of us can agree that 80% damps are overpowered. Two of those and a 250km lock range becomes a 16km lock range.
RSDs on bonused ships are underpowered as things stand. They should not be Falcons that don't need SDAs though, which is about what a 20%/level strength bonus would make them. 85% strength with max skills, and then add two rigs and you hit 93.7% damp strength. Add an Eos to the picture and well. . . be interesting to see how the engine handles negative lock ranges. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
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Siebenthal
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:55:00 -
[51]
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Dzajic
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Posted - 2008.07.15 16:14:00 -
[52]
Supported. Though, couldn't CSM oversee the balance process. CCP doesn't seem to have any hope of getting the "slow, incremental and cautious" approach to balance. We either get OP stuff or prenerfed stuff from them.
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Tribalist
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Posted - 2008.07.15 16:42:00 -
[53]
Definitly need some help with these ships
Tribe Tribe
Friend's don't let friend's drive the Imicus |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.15 17:07:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 15/07/2008 17:08:38
I have to agree. These ships were nerfed pretty horribly. Situation does need looking at again and your proposal (returning to pre-nerf strength on that class of bonused ships makes sense).
Supporting this.
Also - CCP this is what YOU made me do to my Arazu!
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.15 17:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Zikka on 15/07/2008 17:27:36 This makes sense. I was an Arazu specialist before the nerf and now it is just gathering dust.
I like the idea of increasing the range on damps rather than just boosting their strength agani though, as that would make them very effective vs snipers and falcons giving them a clear niche role.
Something like (Arazu): Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener optimal and fall-off and 5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to warp disruptor range and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level
This keeps the warp disrupter bonus on the recon ship skill where it needs to be and swaps the hybrid bonus (on a ship with a max of 3 turrets anyway!) for a hefty dampner range bonus.
Dampeners have 30km optimal, 60km falloff. This would change that to 60 and 120 (for 180km + skills) on the specialist ships which seems fair to me, especially since it is in falloff for much of that distance.
The Lachesis could swap the turret damage bonus the same way and then the Recon ship bonus to missiles could either stay as it is, or be changed to a hybrid bonus and increase the number of turret slots.
The Celestis would swap its 5% bonus to hybrid damage for a 10% range bonus - so not as good as the T2 ships but still pretty respectable.
How does that sound?
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Gaogan
Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2008.07.15 19:40:00 -
[56]
Damps need an increase to their range so they are effective against snipers and jammers trying to stay out of fighting range.
The weakness of damps though is not the only problem with the Arazu; it also suffers from identity crisis ( as does the Lachesis ). Is it supposed to sit back and damp, or is it supposed to get in close and tackle? It gets bonuses to both, but they are mutually exclusive, so which does it go with?
Also why does the Lachesis get another mid slot instead of a low slot? Especially when its description says that it is a Roden ship, which tend to be weak in ewar. The falcon and the rook both have the same number of mids and lows, why do the Arazu and Lachesis differ? Also since Gallente are primarily armor tankers, why does the combat recon get the lower number of lows? And why does the Lachesis get a missile bonus when it clearly prefers to use guns, and only has one more slot for a launcher?
Let the combat recon focus on up close tackling and fighting, and the force recon focus on sitting at range and using ewar. Switch the slot layouts so the Lachesis can fit a better armor tank, and the Arazu can fit more damps. Let the Lachesis go in with the scram, web, tank and guns. Change that silly missile damage bonus to turret tracking or range bonus. Heck, Roden is supposed to be the big armor tanking corp, maybe make it an armor rep bonus.
It used to be that the Arazu's dual bonuses complimented each other for solo hunting; allowing them to tackle their prey while rendering them unable to fight back. The Falcon can still do this, but the Arazu no longer can since even 3 damps can not get most ships lock range less than the Arazu's scram range. Maybe instead of boosting the strength of individual damps, the stacking penalty should just be removed so that way 3 damps can't disable 3 ships, but 3 damps on one ship WILL disable it.
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demonfurbie
Covert-Nexus White Core
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Posted - 2008.07.15 19:50:00 -
[57]
yes please and not just the arazu but id love to have a reason to fly a keres
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isAzmodeus
Low Security Military Excursions
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Posted - 2008.07.15 20:34:00 -
[58]
Gallente recons could definitely use a boost. I'd prefer to see the t1 versions get a slight boost, and t2 a bigger boost. Additionally, if the t2 versions lost the damage bonus for a range bonus, it might help counteract some of the limitations of damps on specialized ships, while keeping them at a reduced usefulness on other ships. --------------------------------- The Seven- Blowing up someone near you. |
Ivena Amethyst
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Posted - 2008.07.15 20:58:00 -
[59]
some ewar that hinders the enemy from attacking your gallante ship that's fitted with the gallentian weapon system of blasters? you mean ECM drones? what are RSD's fore? I mean realy... I haven't figured out anything that it kan do that a ECM doesn't do better..
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Gyufa Arus
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Posted - 2008.07.15 21:00:00 -
[60]
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The Editor
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Posted - 2008.07.15 21:20:00 -
[61]
Supported
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Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.15 21:32:00 -
[62]
Definitely needs to be looked at. Damps currently have very limited use, and only seem to be effective in the 30-70km range which very few fights take place at, in my experience. |
Kalintos Tyl
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Posted - 2008.07.16 09:57:00 -
[63]
hwo about target painters :D They are completly useless in most situations.
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Suitonia
interimo
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Posted - 2008.07.16 09:57:00 -
[64]
support |
Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.16 11:56:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Inertial on 16/07/2008 11:56:38 Wanted to train for the Arazu, however CCP nerfed my ship before I ever got the chance, now all I do is sit and cry in the shower.
we are recruiting!
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.16 12:12:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Gaogan
The weakness of damps though is not the only problem with the Arazu; it also suffers from identity crisis ( as does the Lachesis ). Is it supposed to sit back and damp, or is it supposed to get in close and tackle? It gets bonuses to both, but they are mutually exclusive, so which does it go with?
Erm? What? Are we even looking at the same ship?
My arazu tackles from 40+km away, why would it ever want to get in close?
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isAzmodeus
Low Security Military Excursions
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Posted - 2008.07.16 17:07:00 -
[67]
Change the Lach and Arazu to focus on different Roles
Arazu: Fleet support and anti-sniper 20% Scram range 10% Damp Falloff 5% Damp Effectiveness Cloak fitting bonus
Lach: Small Gang 5% Hybrid Damage 5% Missile ROF (please stop making me use missiles, but thats a different complaint) 10% Damp effectiveness 20% Scram.
One ship gets much longer ranged Damps, but they operate in falloff so at decreased efficiency. This is nice for anti-sniper roles. The other gets much greater damp effectiveness and damage, but is focused on close range, more small-gang or low-sec oriented fighting. --------------------------------- The Seven- Blowing up someone near you. |
Ajurna Jakar
Dark Sun Collective
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Posted - 2008.07.16 17:21:00 -
[68]
/signed
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Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2008.07.16 18:09:00 -
[69]
As an EWAR enthusiast, I like seeing these ships used, and since the damp nerf I have felt that damps might have been nerfed too much. In peparation for bringing this issue to the next CSM meeting I was doing research on the subject, and I have to admit at first it actually doesn't seem like the RSD's need to be boosted. Arazu's and Lachesis' can still dampen most players to less than 60km while scrambling them with a 60km faction scrambler like they could before. It seemed people were upset because their I Win button was removed.
However, after talking more with gallente EWAR pilots, it becomes apparent that although the damps might not be bad in their current form, there isnt a real need for them. ECM can prevent people from getting target locks, and an often heard complaint is that in low range combat the dampening doesn't really matter anyway. The warp jammer range bonus is nice, but many pilots feel it doesnt compete with the recently introduced HICs and various warp disruption bubbles. In short, the gallente ewar doesn't really have a purpose or role.
I dont quite feel comfortable bringing this issue to the CSM in its current form because in my opinion, too many people are simply asking for too big a boost to RSD (returning to pre nerf strength, simply adding range bonuses like ECM, etc) that would overpower gallente EWAR. That said, I do think its a valid point to discuss, and I think we should focus more on what seems to be the root of the problem with remote sensor dampeners: what is the role or purpose of gallente EWAR?
Only once we determine what the role or purpose of gallente ewar should be can we start thinking about possible changes/fixes/solutions. As it stands, this question seems to be unanswered. Keep in mind that the role shouldn't be "all overpowering I win explosions", we're looking for a role that sets the gallente EWAR ships appart, isnt easily covered by other ships and is not overpowered: there has to be a counter. I'll give an example below.
One solution I found that I did find interesting was the following:
Make gallente EWAR anti-sniper ewar. The role of gallente EWAR ships would be anti-sniper. Being able to force snipers to give up or come closer seems to fit with the gallente preference for close range combat.
In order to achieve this, dampner strength would be reduced further. Yes, I know, this sounds like complete fail doesn't it. It wouldnt be reduced much, only a few percentages at most. This will prevent RSD being overpowered on short to mid range. To compensate gallente EWAR ships (celestis, arazu and lachesis) would receive a range bonus similar to their caldari counterparts. A fully skilled and rigged arazu or lachesis pilot should be able to succesfully dampen targets at 200km, with a few dozen KM in falloff. This should be a severe problem for sniper ships, while still allowing them to counter long range damps by fitting several sensor boosters.
The result of this change would be that gallente EWAR would be very useful in countering snipers, but not be all overpowering like it used to be.
Ultimately ofcourse, this is just A possible solution - one which I suspect wont be liked by everyone. I hope however that it will help get a bit more discussion for a real solution going here, instead of simply trying to revert the RSD rebalance.
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.16 19:11:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 16/07/2008 19:13:01
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal ...
thanks for your thorough reply.
let me get streight to the point(s): - should it be mandatory to fit a faction point on the recons? (imho, no) - the recons have the option of a second ewar, the celestis does not - dampeners don't have the necessary range to reach the snipers (optimal 45, falloff 90 with all 5 skills). compared to ecm, it has a much greater chance to fail assuming a 110km sniper standoff. plus, due to their shorter cycle time, the effect is much more likely to be statistical (closer to the projected probability). racial ecm has a range of 162/42 almost TWICE as far, multispecs reach 108/27 (assuming t2, all 5 and a caldari recon) the damps are already beyond falloff when the ecm is barely stating. - as long range supression vessels, the gallente recons have a slightly shorter locking range ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
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Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance Delta.Green
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:17:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
...
Keen reply, you are the first to really mention sensor boosters in this entire thread.
Why would RSDs not be overpowered if they were given a massive strength bonus? Because any sniper that intends to do any sort of ranged combat (around 150+) will be using multiple sensor boosters. Guess what EWar gets stacking nerfed against sensor boosters? You guessed it, RSDs. Sensor boosters, even though they are scripted, are a must fit module even when not considering the availability of RSDs on the battlefield because they become a null issue. Either A) need to have stacking removed or B) need a massive strength boost to overcome it and maintain effectiveness.
You are right, Gallente Recon is anti-sniper since Gallente combat is primarily short range (drone travel time + blasters). RSDs should force them to engage in mid to short range combat (around 50km) so in order to do that it needs the optimal (150km after bonus + skills) to reach that far and strength to do so. Needs the math required to reasonably affect a dual sensor boosted Rokh. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.16 20:53:00 -
[72]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 16/07/2008 20:52:57 I will support this issue, because it requests that these ships are reviewed. I agree, they need revisiting.
However I don't think the fix is necessarily in the RSDs. At the moment, it's possible to damp _any_ T1 ship, to below a T2 warp disruptor range on an Arazu, with ONE damp. Albeit only just, for the extreme cases.
But what's often missed, is that dampening ships don't _just_ do dampening. An Arazu does ... what, 200dps? and tackles, and tanks. It's actually quite dangerously close to being overpowered if it can 'ECM tank + Nano + do damage'. (It's already pretty deadly as a solo ratter slayer, but that's a bit of a poor combat niche to be occupying)
Personally, I think the fix might be something like investigating increasing the dronebay on these ships, or looking at what _else_ they do. I mean, 'bad ewar' doesn't make a bad ship - just ask a Minmatar pilot what they think of target painters, especially in reference to the Huginn/Rapier/Hyena.
So yes, tacitly supported, since the issue is 'revisiting' RSD ships, not necessarily the RSDs themselves. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:04:00 -
[73]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 16/07/2008 21:07:03
Originally by: Chi Quan Edited by: Chi Quan on 16/07/2008 19:13:01
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal ...
thanks for your thorough reply.
let me get streight to the point(s): - should it be mandatory to fit a faction point on the recons? (imho, no)
With recon 5, a T2 warp disruptor II, will do 48km. With two of those effectiveness rigs, an RSD II will put the longest range locking ship t1 ship (the Rokh) to a locking range of 46.61km.
Quote:
- the recons have the option of a second ewar, the celestis does not
Neither does the Bellicose. Nor the Arbitrator. Nor actually the Blackbird. But hey, the Celestis _does_ have turret damager bonus _and_ 40m3 of dronebay.
Quote:
- dampeners don't have the necessary range to reach the snipers (optimal 45, falloff 90 with all 5 skills). compared to ecm, it has a much greater chance to fail assuming a 110km sniper standoff. plus, due to their shorter cycle time, the effect is much more likely to be statistical (closer to the projected probability).
racial ecm has a range of 162/42 almost TWICE as far, multispecs reach 108/27 (assuming t2, all 5 and a caldari recon)
Actually Multispec ECM optimal is 54 + 27km. On a 100% range bonused ship, that's 108+27 - your 1 falloff is therefore 135km, where on an RSD it's ... 45+90km, which comes out at exactly he same number. It's just your second falloff is 3x as long. (So an upper edge of 225km)
You're trading 50% chance of halving their range with the RSD (and thus probably dropping their lock) for a 50% chance, of having a chance of jamming them for 20s. (6 vs. sensor strength means 60% chance against a frigate, and 30% chance or so against a BS. Unless we're talking about fitting Signal Distortion amplifiers here, which in turn means using up lowslots as well)
Now, I agree that racial jammers do have a longer range, but ... well, they're racial jammers - that means they're not all that effective against off race ships. That's very definitely a tradeoff, and one I can't see being good for damps - damp ships aren't _just_ damp ships, so they'd be really hurting if you _had_ to fit 4 to be effective against any race of ships.
Quote:
the damps are already beyond falloff when the ecm is barely stating. - as long range supression vessels, the gallente recons have a slightly shorter locking range
There's a racial skew on locking ranges vs. scan resolution. Gallente recons have a shorter locking range, but in turn a higher scan resolution. Either way, neither Arazu nor Falcon can lock to it's maximal ranges, and thus needs to rig or sensor boost.
Issue supported regardless, but as I say, the answer I feel, is _NOT_ in the RSDs, but looking to what else these ships do. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:53:00 -
[74]
I don't think the resulution is making the Arazu a anti sniper. That would limit it to 0.0. I'd rather give the RSD ships a slight bonus to dampning strenght and otherwise keep them as is.
we are recruiting!
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.07.16 21:57:00 -
[75]
No kidding. I trained for an Arazu. Realized how worthless it is, and sold it in Jita. But at least I can fly an Ishtar now. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 21:58:00 -
[76]
Originally by: James Lyrus Edited by: James Lyrus on 16/07/2008 21:07:03
Originally by: Chi Quan Edited by: Chi Quan on 16/07/2008 19:13:01
Originally by: Dierdra Vaal ...
thanks for your thorough reply.
let me get streight to the point(s): - should it be mandatory to fit a faction point on the recons? (imho, no)
With recon 5, a T2 warp disruptor II, will do 48km. With two of those effectiveness rigs, an RSD II will put the longest range locking ship t1 ship (the Rokh) to a locking range of 46.61km.
Quote:
- the recons have the option of a second ewar, the celestis does not
Neither does the Bellicose. Nor the Arbitrator. Nor actually the Blackbird. But hey, the Celestis _does_ have turret damager bonus _and_ 40m3 of dronebay.
Quote:
- dampeners don't have the necessary range to reach the snipers (optimal 45, falloff 90 with all 5 skills). compared to ecm, it has a much greater chance to fail assuming a 110km sniper standoff. plus, due to their shorter cycle time, the effect is much more likely to be statistical (closer to the projected probability).
racial ecm has a range of 162/42 almost TWICE as far, multispecs reach 108/27 (assuming t2, all 5 and a caldari recon)
Actually Multispec ECM optimal is 54 + 27km. On a 100% range bonused ship, that's 108+27 - your 1 falloff is therefore 135km, where on an RSD it's ... 45+90km, which comes out at exactly he same number. It's just your second falloff is 3x as long. (So an upper edge of 225km)
You're trading 50% chance of halving their range with the RSD (and thus probably dropping their lock) for a 50% chance, of having a chance of jamming them for 20s. (6 vs. sensor strength means 60% chance against a frigate, and 30% chance or so against a BS. Unless we're talking about fitting Signal Distortion amplifiers here, which in turn means using up lowslots as well)
Now, I agree that racial jammers do have a longer range, but ... well, they're racial jammers - that means they're not all that effective against off race ships. That's very definitely a tradeoff, and one I can't see being good for damps - damp ships aren't _just_ damp ships, so they'd be really hurting if you _had_ to fit 4 to be effective against any race of ships.
Quote:
the damps are already beyond falloff when the ecm is barely stating. - as long range supression vessels, the gallente recons have a slightly shorter locking range
There's a racial skew on locking ranges vs. scan resolution. Gallente recons have a shorter locking range, but in turn a higher scan resolution. Either way, neither Arazu nor Falcon can lock to it's maximal ranges, and thus needs to rig or sensor boost.
Issue supported regardless, but as I say, the answer I feel, is _NOT_ in the RSDs, but looking to what else these ships do.
You didn't support it in this post. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 23:05:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Xaen
Issue supported regardless, but as I say, the answer I feel, is _NOT_ in the RSDs, but looking to what else these ships do.
You didn't support it in this post.
See: Post above. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Dierdra Vaal
|
Posted - 2008.07.16 23:07:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 16/07/2008 23:08:19 new question then: Because of the dampener change, what has changed in how you use gallente EWAR - both on the gallente EWAR ships, and on 'regular' ships?
Please be as specific and detailed as possible - what could you do before that you can't do (or not as well) now, etc.
I can see merit in supporting a re-evaluation of remote sensor dampeners, but I want to make sure we can tell CCP something better than "please change it back thx". :)
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
Abel Tasman
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.17 05:58:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Abel Tasman on 17/07/2008 05:58:40 support
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Jasmine Dixon
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Posted - 2008.07.18 13:42:00 -
[80]
Quote: new question then: Because of the dampener change, what has changed in how you use gallente EWAR - both on the gallente EWAR ships, and on 'regular' ships?
The Problem of the pre-changed dampeners was that you could fit them on almost every ship to have a good portion of ewar with you. They were in my opinion just to strong on non specialized ships.
However after the change they are fine on regular ships imho. But the Gallente Recons and the EAS are suffering badly from that. Lets do what have many people done before and compare it to the Falcon. A single Falcon on the Battlefield means in any case that at least (!) one of you ships is completely out of the game. In some cases this could of couse also mean 2 or 3 ships..... The Falcon is sitting at 200 km while doing that, a range where noone in a usual roaming gang can lock it.
Ok, back to the Gallente Ships. With an Gallente Recon you have to be in med or close range combat to get the full effectivenes of your damps. A single damp in this combat range is mor the less useless, so you have to spend all your damps (lets asume 3) on one single ship. After that (because of th weakness of the damps, stacking and so on...) most ships will still have a locking range of 10 to 20 km. If you now think of all the close range ships out there in small gang Warfare which have to get closer then 10 km to shoot anyway, and also all the speedships which could come in closer in almost no time to tackle you again. this isn't very nice at all.
Some of you guys will now say, hey the Gallente ships have those cool scram range bonuses as well..... yeah and they are right...this was one of the features of these ships because of which i have trainied them.....but novadays you have Interceptors with their new scram range bonuses and their speed, as well as their small signature radius they are the much better tacklers in my personal opinion.
So the conclusion of this is as follows....there is atm no reason to bring one of those formerly so nice gallente ewar ships. If you want a tackler, you take a much cheaper ceptor if you want ewar.... a falcon obviously is the better choice.
So what to do about that issue. Thats of couse not easy, because a gallente recon should'nt be an i-win button.
I personal favor a dampener strength bonus increase on those ships, so that you can take out one (but not more) ships out of the combat, which means for me lockrange around 5km. If this seems to overpowered in a 1 vs 1 situation, then i would think of giving up the damage bonus of the recons and maybe a smaller drone bay......these ships are for nasty ewar stuff not for damage.
A second possibility would be to give an optimal (!) range bonus to those ships, so that they can sit at 150 km while dampening their targets. This would make them usefull in some anti sniper situations but of couse the cool scram range bonus would be useless ...
and @topic supporting this
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Corduroy Rab
Xenocidal Uprising
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Posted - 2008.07.18 20:58:00 -
[81]
support
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Cosy
Porandor
|
Posted - 2008.07.18 21:37:00 -
[82]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Any complaints can be directed towards our Music Director
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.18 21:55:00 -
[83]
i would like to add to the above that currently heavy interdictors with their focused infinipoint can scram at t1-scramrange-on-a-gal-recon and do not need to sacrifice any of their other options to achieve this. also, once RSDs start having a chance to fail, they tecnically become ECM modules lacking the ability to effect close range targets. ecm also does not suffer from stacking penalies, 2 ecms are twice as effective.
Quote: Neither does the Bellicose. Nor the Arbitrator. Nor actually the Blackbird. But hey, the Celestis _does_ have turret damager bonus _and_ 40m3 of dronebay.
i hope you are not suggesting using a celestis as a combat vessel, the weaponry on the celestis only suffices to scare off an unexperienced tackler pilot in frigate sized craft (which, imho is ok, since it is not a combat ship)
Quote: ... and tanks...
please notice that mentioning a tank in conjuction with celestis class ships (that fit their medslots according to the bonuses) is a bit weird. once the enemy comes below dampener range, the ship is lost with a 100% probability. the ecms on the blackbird class or the cap neutralization from arbitrator class vesels have higher chances to prevent destruction. you can not nano and tank and ewar it. it makes a bad nano due to insufficient cap and low top speed, a buffer tank is possible, but it is a weak one. it can not gank, because even with bonuses, it does very little dps. 60% of those mentioned 200 (which is only true if you use close range antimatter) come from hammerhead t2 drones which have to enter close range an can be destroyed. plus the ships have cap issues.
Quote: At the moment, it's possible to damp _any_ T1 ship, to below a T2 warp disruptor range on an Arazu, with ONE damp. Albeit only just, for the extreme cases.
this is not true, a single t2 dampener will take ~45% off your targeting range (using an arazu with all skills at 5 and a range dampening script). a hurricane can lock ~25km (skills at 3) under this condition (~45km for a ferrox). if you ment a disruptor on an arazu/lachesis ok. yes, i took the race with the lowest locking range, note however that exactly this race can close the lock-out zone very fast and also often uses explosive damage. ---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.18 22:02:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Roger Douglas on 18/07/2008 22:04:23 Signed. Specialized RSD ships should actually function close to what existed pre-nerf...
Edit:
To answer the CSM quesiton, the point of gallente EWAR ships should be to force their opponents to get up close and personal. That fits right in the whole Gallente fighting doctrine (Blasters anyone?).
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Yon Andon
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:00:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Roger Douglas Edited by: Roger Douglas on 18/07/2008 22:04:23 Signed. Specialized RSD ships should actually function close to what existed pre-nerf...
Edit:
To answer the CSM quesiton, the point of gallente EWAR ships should be to force their opponents to get up close and personal. That fits right in the whole Gallente fighting doctrine (Blasters anyone?).
agreed, to force the enemy into close combat.
The damps themselves should stay the same to prevent the old problem with them, everyone using them.
If the ship bonuses are increased to much they may make one damp on an Arazu too powerful enabling the pilot to lock-break many enemies, after all damps are 100% certain to damp.
So how about this, Give the gallente ewar ships the bonus of not applying stacking penalties for RSDs. RSDs from two Celestises on one target would be stacked though with one ship doing ~80% damping even though it does 100% damping from two or more of it's damps.
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WishBlade
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:42:00 -
[86]
/... Signature |
Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2008.07.19 14:44:00 -
[87]
I have requested this issue to be added to tomorrows CSM meeting :)
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.07.19 16:41:00 -
[88]
Signed.... should be obvious why.
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Aneroi
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.20 11:54:00 -
[89]
/signed
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Dierdra Vaal
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Posted - 2008.07.20 19:27:00 -
[90]
this issue will be submitted to CCP :)
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
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Dzajic
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.29 16:51:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Dzajic on 29/07/2008 16:53:02 Ok, bump.
Even if new proposed changes to warp scrams go trough, that isnt a sufficient thing for Gallente recons and EAS.
Idea of sensor damps is to force enemy ships to close range (where ideally your blasterships eat them alive). Problem is that you can hardly push a unboosted BS under 20km (web range, new scram range).
And that optimal plus falloff on damps is insufficient to say bad things to sniper BSes in fleet fights. ECMs have crazy range, and will screw you up if they succeed, damps cant even compete in long range ewar.
IMHO at least optimall plus falloff of damps should be increased, and maybe a minor damp strenght boost per recon or eas skill level.
If they have to balance it, reduce normal tank and gank on these ships.
Edit. Damps should get range increase period. But, while EAS and cov op recon could use a damp strenght, if balance is in order perhups force recon could keep current damp strenght or stg.
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VIncent Vance
E.M.P. Industries Malum Exuro
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Posted - 2008.07.29 17:18:00 -
[92]
Supported.
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Lugs Brannigan
Carebears Must Die Ltd.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 17:20:00 -
[93]
Supported.
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Regulottus
E.M.P. Industries Malum Exuro
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Posted - 2008.07.29 17:24:00 -
[94]
It's got my full support.
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Blind Molechild
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Posted - 2008.07.29 17:25:00 -
[95]
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Hottie McGee
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.31 20:15:00 -
[96]
i think that increasing the bonus that RSD ships give out should be increased to 7.5% instead of 5%, making them more useful.
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Karentaki
Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:37:00 -
[97]
/signed |
Pizi
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Posted - 2008.07.31 22:07:00 -
[98]
yes ECM ships got the boost now pls do the rest _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
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Berendas
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Posted - 2008.07.31 22:18:00 -
[99]
/signed
Giving damps one of their effects back up to prenerf status would be really nice.
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.08.01 00:37:00 -
[100]
Absolutely _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
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Miko May
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Posted - 2008.08.01 08:32:00 -
[101]
/signed
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Lionel Redstar
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Posted - 2008.08.01 11:33:00 -
[102]
Supported
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Xerox WorkCentre
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Posted - 2008.08.01 11:33:00 -
[103]
Signed
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.01 13:13:00 -
[104]
Every sniper worth its salt has a sensor booster, stop saying that a single damp is going to reduce its range to 46km when it will absolutely not.
In addition damps are stacking penalized so more damps on a single target is less effective. When people ask for an RSD boost they want RSD's to be nearly just as useful in a recon gang as a falcon is, jamming 3-4 targets at a time. --
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.01 15:41:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 01/08/2008 15:44:08 THIS ISSUE WILL BE DISCUSSED ON THE NEXT CSM MEETING WITH CCP
you can (and should) still support this if you think it's right though
---- You don't have to like it - I don't blame you for not liking it. |
Vanessa Vasquez
planet eyeQ
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Posted - 2008.08.01 17:02:00 -
[106]
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Lancard
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Posted - 2008.08.10 21:18:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy However now the RSD bonused ships are a bit lacking just like the ECM boats used to be. They cannot keep a single target from doing damage like a falcon can or even like a pilgrim can to a turret based ship.
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Etil DeLaFuente
Obsidian Inc. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.11 00:29:00 -
[108]
give me back my arazu
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Nemesor
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.08.28 23:41:00 -
[109]
Completely agree.
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Mr Crepsley
SkillzKillz United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.09.23 21:36:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Mr Crepsley on 23/09/2008 21:37:22 I support this. Now using an arazu/lachesis is almost laughable ecm was nerfed and specilased ships boosted why did this not happen with RSD's ----
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Sin Fae
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.09.24 04:00:00 -
[111]
I would agree with the damp boost, but not the tackle. Any ship with 100% both is overpowered.
Quote: "Justice..is in the hands of those who wish to take it"
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Ignition SemperFi
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:34:00 -
[112]
Not sure if the issue was eventually brought up or not. But I agree this would bring RSD on the same level as ECM for those specialized ships, or at least give a larger bonus to the ships that are meant for RSD ------ People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:46:00 -
[113]
You forgot that they also nerfed damp rigs (made my rapier cry)
I do not fly arazu/lachs/celestis/etc but I support an increase to their bonus for RSDs. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Irida Mershkov
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:14:00 -
[114]
Agree 100% on this one.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.03 12:31:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Malcanis on 03/10/2008 12:32:39 Agreed: Damps were overpowered and overused, but the Gallante EW ships were pretty much fine. At a bare minumum the Arazu, Lachesis and Keres should get an extra 5-7.5% damp strength per level, taking them to 10 or 12.5%. Celestis should be 2.5% lower.
Additionally: add EW falloff rigs.
EDIT: Also, change signal distortion amps to boost ALL EW types, not just ECM.
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.10.03 19:45:00 -
[116]
Damps suck and need a boost.
ECM got nerfed damp style before, but ECM spec ships got a big boost. This is not part of my sig.
...Or is it? |
Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:24:00 -
[117]
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Ackaroth
Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.03 23:49:00 -
[118]
Signed. Arazu/lachesis are pricey boats for being basically crap compared to other recons. Command ship can make interceptor into mini arazu/lachesis (in sense of warp disruption at range), that is fail when you are pushed in that direction because of the cost of boats that are made to do it, and just dont well enough to be worth it. |
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.04 01:44:00 -
[119]
Definitely agree; the modules were an issue when ships like the Caracal were using it as a standard fit, but the ships designed to use it should make life hell for their target.
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Wraithstorm
Armada.
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:17:00 -
[120]
Support |
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Apple Boy
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.10 00:02:00 -
[121]
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Mike Yass
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.10 18:19:00 -
[122]
There was no reason to not buff the Celestis family of ships after nerfing RSDs. Supportin' dis.
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Hooded Person
|
Posted - 2008.10.10 19:09:00 -
[123]
Supported
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Joss Sparq
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.11 22:55:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy They cannot keep a single target from doing damage like a falcon can or even like a pilgrim can to a turret based ship.
I would point out that they're also not chance based like ECM are. However, I agree that RSDs should be examined and perhaps given a slight boost to make them a more viable option, especially for role bonus ships.
Mind you, I think a good deal of the Electronic Warfare repertoire (RSDs, TPs, TDs, and the directly related Drones) need a tweak towards greater affect on combat. Supported.
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.12 00:23:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Joss Sparq I would point out that they're also not chance based
Yes they are when you get out of optimal, which isn't very big to begin with.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.12 11:39:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Kransthow
Originally by: Joss Sparq I would point out that they're also not chance based
Yes they are when you get out of optimal, which isn't very big to begin with.
Errr, what? I've always been under the impression RSDs hit after optimal at a reduced degree of strength, but still "hit" they do - even if they have, at some point, little or no impact.
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deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.12 11:41:00 -
[127]
Way too many ships were made effectively useless by the RSD nerf. Something needs to be done. Supported definitely.
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.12 13:14:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Joss Sparq Errr, what? I've always been under the impression RSDs hit after optimal at a reduced degree of strength, but still "hit" they do - even if they have, at some point, little or no impact.
The reason behind it is that having to constantly recalculate the strength of the sensor dampner would just cause the server to keel over and die and as a compromise to stop lag, it was made to be a simpler chance based system.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.12 15:26:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Kransthow
Originally by: Joss Sparq I would point out that they're also not chance based
Yes they are when you get out of optimal, which isn't very big to begin with.
Errr, what? I've always been under the impression RSDs hit after optimal at a reduced degree of strength, but still "hit" they do - even if they have, at some point, little or no impact.
That's how they should really work, but no, in falloff, all EW is chance-based (ECM gets a falloff roll, then a sensor vs jammer roll)
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Hooded Person
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.26 11:31:00 -
[130]
/supported + bump |
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Nilien
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 11:55:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Nilien on 26/10/2008 11:56:20 Good idea falcon /rook etc require appropriate answer . P S falcon /rook requires nerf permajamm is smth awesome
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VonRijSE
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.26 12:12:00 -
[132]
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Booken Blue
Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.26 15:42:00 -
[133]
Supported. I'm a big fan of Damps ships and the tactical elements they convey. The Damp Nerf did alot of damage in the strategy element of the game, and I want it restored. |
Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2008.10.26 18:36:00 -
[134]
|
Karentaki
Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:15:00 -
[135]
Bump for gallente e-war love.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 11:31:00 -
[136]
Supported.
There is very little point using RSD these days.
If you need EW in a small gang the call for the Falcon goes out.
|
Jean Dessaut
MicroFunks
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 19:03:00 -
[137]
/signed
|
Xanja
2H Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 23:15:00 -
[138]
----------------- |
shuckstar
Hauling hogs
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 05:42:00 -
[139]
|
Tulisin Dragonflame
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 07:38:00 -
[140]
Signed.
I am interested in trying a Keres, but I can't really find a use for it with damps being so, well, bleh.
|
|
Grigo
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 08:29:00 -
[141]
no...learn to use ure ships RO
Originally by: Avernus ...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.
|
Antihrist Pripravnik
The 13th Gallentean Armed Response
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:24:00 -
[142]
supported
|
Miss KillSome
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.12.29 12:31:00 -
[143]
yes, we need a boost!! Fast ----- TCODA corporation is recruiting! TCODA is awesome! |
Pizi
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.12.29 21:58:00 -
[144]
yes please they are lacking a role _______________________________________________ Mining Crystal II BPC Pricelist EVEpedia[Deutsch]
|
Romulus Silvia
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.12.29 22:20:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Romulus Silvia on 29/12/2008 22:20:40 i'd like to fly my arazu again.
|
Esmenet
|
Posted - 2008.12.30 03:41:00 -
[146]
bump
|
Imertu Solientai
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 16:07:00 -
[147]
Bump because this is still a major issue! I'm sick of seeing falcon threads when the arazu is so underpowered.
|
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Assisted Homicide DEFI4NT
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 19:53:00 -
[148]
Not supported. Dampening still works and we saw a lot of it in the tournament. Gimp? I think not. Especially when most of them dampening weren't the ships in this thread.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart
|
Skylar Flame
Brackish Water
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 01:08:00 -
[149]
|
Imertu Solientai
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:23:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Not supported. Dampening still works and we saw a lot of it in the tournament. Gimp? I think not. Especially when most of them dampening weren't the ships in this thread.
--Isaac
Quoted to prove that damp-specific ships are worse than their non-damp-specific counterparts.
|
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:43:00 -
[151]
Don't approve. Lachesis/Arazu are fine, it's damps that need a boost.
|
Cpt Jagermeister
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 01:20:00 -
[152]
+1 For more powerful ship bonuses. Currently don't see a serious use for any of these ships.
|
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.02.28 14:31:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Don't approve. Lachesis/Arazu are fine, it's damps that need a boost.
Damps could do with a boost too, but the reason these ships suck is that damps, along with other ewar were nerfed a while ago because they were too powerful. Caldari recons got boosted to make up for this, but gallete ones didn't. Damps on non-damp-specific ships shouldn't be very good, but they should be a powerful tool when fitted on a specialised ewar ship.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 15:16:00 -
[154]
from 5%-->7.5% would be spot on. It might seem slight but in practise it's make or break for the Gallente EWAR line.
A range buff would be welcome as well. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Erika Bronz
The Wyld Hunt
|
Posted - 2009.03.04 11:57:00 -
[155]
|
PhantomVoice
The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.04 15:05:00 -
[156]
|
William Hart
Advanced Logistics Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 09:44:00 -
[157]
Arazu/Lachesis definitely need to get their EW looked at. I think a optimal range bonus similar to the Falcons would bring it in line.
Arazu/Lachesis dampening the 200km Falcons bringing them closer to the fight would be something.. (before you flame, I fly Falcons :P)
Arazu/Lachesis are still very decent PvP ships for close/medium range stuff. Very situational, but no more or less so than the other Recons.
|
Daan Sai
Polytrope
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 12:10:00 -
[158]
I honesty doubt CCP sometime when they say they will see how it goes and make adjustments later.... RSDs have been a dead horse for over a year now, and falcons rule the roost.
Please take some action on this!
|
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 15:26:00 -
[159]
support [x]
my suggestion: Change arazu/lachesis dmg bonus to a fall-off bonus. Arazu/Lachesis should be able to damp Falcons inside fall-off range of damps. Not up to 250km, because Caldari=long range and ECM chance based.
|
Odewad
Geddonites
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 17:06:00 -
[160]
this ... ------
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5962/brightlc7.png
This ^^ sucks |
|
Role Play
Club Bear Turbo.
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 20:38:00 -
[161]
- - -
- - - |
Soma Khan
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 20:44:00 -
[162]
Support. ___
|
Saka Mizuno
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 21:43:00 -
[163]
|
Zly Dziad
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 21:49:00 -
[164]
Support
|
Caldari Citizen4714
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 22:02:00 -
[165]
Didn't know this issue already existed.
Now I do.
|
Jimer Lins
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 22:49:00 -
[166]
More range and actual effectiveness with damps would make my Arazu useful again.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Moon Dogg
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 14:49:00 -
[167]
Count me in on this one.
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |
Li Fengxian
Reservoir Saints
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:07:00 -
[168]
Count me in.
|
Eggars
New Light
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:19:00 -
[169]
Supported
|
SkiLLzThaTKiLLz X
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:38:00 -
[170]
. -- SkiLLzThaTKiLLz X | DarkArch0n X
|
|
Donatien de'Sade
Ars Notoria
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 15:54:00 -
[171]
In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move |
Vardemis
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 16:47:00 -
[172]
No.
They have their role and can be used quite effectively, if you cannot figure out how, just pick one of the other ton of ships available.
|
Kim Wilde
Covenant
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 19:50:00 -
[173]
|
Robert0288
g guild Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 20:51:00 -
[174]
|
Fragito
Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 21:30:00 -
[175]
|
Kalman Tihanyi
|
Posted - 2009.03.24 22:05:00 -
[176]
|
Quin Takinato
|
Posted - 2009.03.25 01:59:00 -
[177]
|
Nicholas DW
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
|
Posted - 2009.03.25 03:48:00 -
[178]
Support.
|
Xavieer Naidoo
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 14:41:00 -
[179]
|
JadeMako
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:39:00 -
[180]
|
|
Anopheli
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 07:02:00 -
[181]
Support. Absolutely.
The Gallente Recon ships used to have a role, and actual usefulness prior to the RSD nerf that came with EWAR balancing. This probably needed to be done, as the OP mentions, RSDs were being used in all sorts of ridiculous places. However - the Arazu and Lachesis in particular are not even pale ghosts compared to the other race's Recon Ships. The Falcon is the ubiquitous PvP condom, and even with nerfs, the Rook will likely take up its position in most fleets. The Minmatar ships, I'll admit I don't see much of (then I don't see many Minmatar ships), buff webbing, perhaps one of the most useful game mechanics there is. The Pilgrim and Curse are simply vicious little ships, that for their size and price are nearly without equal.
The Arazu and Lachesis - why even fly them?
|
Aniel Zaar
Light of Orion
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 20:21:00 -
[182]
Supported. *-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^*-*^-^ By the way, I am an Ishtar and T2 sentries fan. Fight to make the sentry damage rig work for all drones. |
shi'ako
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 13:30:00 -
[183]
Edited by: shi''ako on 07/04/2009 13:30:19 The old nerf was needed no argument, but without a boost (especially to the Gal recons) they just became too weak compared to their counterparts.
More range and actual effectiveness would be ideal.
|
Pghagugngog Eithat
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:42:00 -
[184]
yea
|
Kralin Ignatov
The Colour Out of Space Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 05:40:00 -
[185]
|
Amaldor Themodius
|
Posted - 2009.04.16 14:13:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Amaldor Themodius on 16/04/2009 14:13:28 / signed
|
GIDGET GLAM
|
Posted - 2009.04.16 14:18:00 -
[187]
Seriously RSD's cant effectively ewar 1 ship and the falcon can jam close to a half dozen where is the balance?
|
Azekial
Beasts of Burden Equinox Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 23:38:00 -
[188]
/ Supported |
Yahrr
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 01:20:00 -
[189]
Originally by: GIDGET GLAM Seriously RSD's cant effectively ewar 1 ship and the falcon can jam close to a half dozen where is the balance?
They can, with a bonussed ship like the Arazu. The Falcon can do it all much better indeed, but if you take Arazu vs Falcon the Falcon will get nerfed as ECM is chance based and probably occupied jamming that battleship. And how about breaking into missions? Falcon fails at that. :)
Damps are not totally worthless now but they still NEED a BOOST! supported.
(woops*, I accidently hit the report button instead of the quote button, so my apologies GIDGET GLAM if you get an angry GM shouting at you...)
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 02:32:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 11/06/2009 02:32:22 Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 11/06/2009 02:32:12 Simple solution.
Rather then boosting 101 ships.
Just nerf caldari and we'll be balanced :-)
|
|
Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 06:37:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 11/06/2009 02:32:22 Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 11/06/2009 02:32:12 Simple solution.
Rather then boosting 101 ships.
Just nerf caldari and we'll be balanced :-)
Disagree. Recon ships need a role, but CCP is doing it wrong. It's a lot more work to properly rebalance everything that needs changing, but boosting RSDs would be a step in the right direction.
----
Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy. Killboard |
Arengor
Glittering Dust Wild Hunt.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 15:03:00 -
[192]
Yes, just yes. RSD ships need a boost.
|
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 17:13:00 -
[193]
Another bump for this. CCP Please stop ignoring this subject.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
Zxenis
Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.06.11 18:43:00 -
[194]
i dont even use em for RSD, just for the scram bonus
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)
|
Jeremey
Glittering Dust
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 13:35:00 -
[195]
Supported.
|
Imertu Solientai
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 22:59:00 -
[196]
Trying to keep this above all the crap troll threads. *looks at chribba*
This is still an issue, whether the caldari majority think so or not.
|
Torrin Aranor
|
Posted - 2009.06.13 11:41:00 -
[197]
Supported :) |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2009.06.13 14:50:00 -
[198]
Edited by: RedSplat on 13/06/2009 14:49:37 The issue is that on a one to one basis RSD's are actually very powerful indeed; yes they are, start flying intelligently.
However, as soon as you have a second target to worry about everything typically goes to hell.
The seemingly obvious solution is to just increase base inflicted penalties across the board for all RSD's.
But that creates another problem where people have utility slots stuffed full of them on no-specialized ships.
We've been there before.
I don't ascribe to the school of thought that says an ECM bonus'd ship should be able to cripple half a small gang (Yes i STILL hate Falcons) but i would like to see a careful re-balancing of RSD's. |
Kamina Kasai
Glittering Dust
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 06:56:00 -
[199]
Supported. |
Eithen Kihne
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 10:27:00 -
[200]
supported, and i hope that to fix them will not require another couple of years. |
|
Photon Ceray
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 12:00:00 -
[201]
signed. |
Aionstar
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 07:21:00 -
[202]
|
Relatyve Mynd
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 20:22:00 -
[203]
supported, they need a buff, though not a big one. Just a smallish one. |
Don Pellegrino
|
Posted - 2009.06.17 02:31:00 -
[204]
Gallente EW ships need love, supported
|
Azekial
Beasts of Burden Equinox Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.06.18 20:56:00 -
[205]
Bump; I really hope CCP looks at this. |
Iskoff
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 06:37:00 -
[206]
Just bump. |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.06.20 15:14:00 -
[207]
BUUUUUUUMMMMMPPPPPP!!! Also, Fix the Arazu please. |
Arengor
Glittering Dust Wild Hunt.
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 09:26:00 -
[208]
Bump. RSD need fix! |
Sun Pin
Amarr Northern Intelligence
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 09:43:00 -
[209]
Is it so that EW should only be used on EW ships? Boost RSD instead of just the ships! |
Karina Redstar
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 12:48:00 -
[210]
signed |
|
Betonela
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 12:48:00 -
[211]
supported
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:06:00 -
[212]
Bump for this, any word from the bigwigs? ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Syringe
R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
|
Posted - 2009.06.24 20:33:00 -
[213]
/supported |
Arengor
Glittering Dust Wild Hunt.
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 07:43:00 -
[214]
Bump. |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 13:01:00 -
[215]
Back up to the top. CCP STILL HAVEN'T FIXED THIS.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 14:19:00 -
[216]
Please for the love of EVE, boost those poor Gallente recon ships! They're so fail with their weak RSD bonuses and overzealous stacking penalties that you're better off fitting ECM on the Arazu and treating it like a Falcon.
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 14:24:00 -
[217]
CSM want to say a few words? ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Azekial
Beasts of Burden Equinox Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 14:28:00 -
[218]
Just thought i'd give it a bump; and also mention the love needed to be given to the RSD rigs.
Before the nerf the RSD rigs had 10% bonus to strength now they are 5% !! and the penalty stays the same - there is no incentive to fit these at all - especially with the stacking penalties.
Someone please fix them.
A single acknowledgement of this thread would be nice - just so we know your at least looking at them.
Thanks. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 15:47:00 -
[219]
|
Kaman Jho
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 16:53:00 -
[220]
Wow, the Arazu looked to be a sweet ship on first glance, then I trained for it and noticed how much of a fail it is.
So I come here and see that this thread is alive and kicking, for a year, and no response or hope in the foreseeable future.
I get the distinct impression that this "council" is as much fail as the Arazu, drink a lot of coffee and chat I assume, good for Starbucks business. Great job council!
Sarcasm of course wont further the cause I suppose, but then neither has reasonable requests and patience.Another patch today and no love for the Gallente recons.
Full support for this long standing, 8 pages of support, year long thread.
|
|
Davlos
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.06.29 23:28:00 -
[221]
My name is Davlos, and I endorse this product and/or service. ---
Originally by: Revan Neferis
Scientific category of gravitation fields and velocity is force....
|
Azekial
Beasts of Burden Equinox Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.01 17:34:00 -
[222]
Bump. |
Arengor
Glittering Dust Wild Hunt.
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 09:34:00 -
[223]
One more bump. |
Mahai Ano
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 11:41:00 -
[224]
|
A Sinner
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.07.07 13:05:00 -
[225]
i agree, arazu and lachesis have the disruption bonus so they are very good tackling ships. but after the speed nerf u can't speed tank it and that was pretty much the only way to tank it. right now it needs it's RSD bonuses back so it can kill the lock on the ships they're tackling otherwise you're dead in a matter of seconds... -----
|
Hooded Person
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.07.13 15:23:00 -
[226]
Back to the top. Though CCP really don't seem to care...
Originally by: RedSplat
PvP flagging would solve this issue.
|
gob bluthe
|
Posted - 2009.07.30 04:23:00 -
[227]
|
A Ingus
|
Posted - 2009.07.30 16:35:00 -
[228]
Edited by: A Ingus on 30/07/2009 16:34:59 The damp bonused ships should have the strength bonus for both lock time or range reduction increased to 7.5 or 10.
But sadly that wouldn't even be enough to get me to fly them. The grid and cap suck too. Add to it that a ceptor can do as good or better job tackling and maybe a whole rethinking of these ships is in order.
|
Stil Harkonnen
|
Posted - 2009.07.31 01:54:00 -
[229]
fix my race please
nobody really wants a gallente recon in their gang, damps don't do enough to be worth it. on a bonused ship
|
Chuck Christ
|
Posted - 2009.07.31 20:03:00 -
[230]
Supported
|
|
Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 00:23:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy In the reasonably distant past ECM modules were fitted to all kinds of ships and were quite effective. Then ECM modules themselves were nerfed so they became impractical on non-ECM bonused ships.
Then much later most ECM bonused ships were boosted to make them more useful using the lower starting strength ECM.
In a recent patch RSDs were changed in two ways, they were reduced to 2/3 of their previous effectiveness and they were given scripts so they affect only one of two aspects to full strength or both to half strength. I'm not arguing that this was a bad change as it wasn't. RSDs were being fitted to all sorts of ships (Rapiers, Ravens, Domis etc.) making them similar to ECMs of yore.
However now the RSD bonused ships are a bit lacking just like the ECM boats used to be. They cannot keep a single target from doing damage like a falcon can or even like a pilgrim can to a turret based ship.
I ask that the bonuses to RSD ships be looked at to make them more useful in small gangs. A strength boost returning them to pre-nerf strength on those ships would not be overpowered given the scripting changes.
Your title says that gallente EW ships need a boost, your post says that gallente EW mods need a boost, how about you decide what you want and then remake the post ?
PS: I do agree on the RSD thing though. --- I smack just for myself.
* Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout |
Stil Harkonnen
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 01:19:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 01/08/2009 01:21:03
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Your title says that gallente EW ships need a boost, your post says that gallente EW mods need a boost, how about you decide what you want and then remake the post ?
PS: I do agree on the RSD thing though.
The way I see it, it could go either way.
EITHER boost the modules so that the existing bonuses actually make them worthwhile to use
OR boost the bonuses so the bonuses make RSD useful to use.
Probably the best idea would be to boost the bonuses a tad so that it would not become an overpowered module again.
EDIT: I actually bought and fit a keres yesterday
the fit will BARELY give me room to tackle AND stay out of targeting range, though
|
Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 07:17:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 01/08/2009 01:21:03
Originally by: Muad' Dib
Your title says that gallente EW ships need a boost, your post says that gallente EW mods need a boost, how about you decide what you want and then remake the post ?
PS: I do agree on the RSD thing though.
The way I see it, it could go either way.
EITHER boost the modules so that the existing bonuses actually make them worthwhile to use
OR boost the bonuses so the bonuses make RSD useful to use.
Probably the best idea would be to boost the bonuses a tad so that it would not become an overpowered module again.
EDIT: I actually bought and fit a keres yesterday
the fit will BARELY give me room to tackle AND stay out of targeting range, though
The ships are fine, right now gallente recons are very strong even despite their EW issues. They used to be not so good back before the scrambler change but now gallente recons can put a warp scrambler at the same ranges a non-bonused disruptos is. --- I smack just for myself.
* Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout |
DaKoo
UK1 Zero
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 14:03:00 -
[234]
|
Montmazar
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2009.08.01 19:46:00 -
[235]
|
roq deelim
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 12:43:00 -
[236]
in simple words: ccp "****ed" up all other ewar types except ecm...
|
Xorth Adimus
The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2009.08.02 14:01:00 -
[237]
Agree on boosting sensor damp effects on arazu/lach/keres et all by around 7.5% per skill level.
As per the rapier/huginn it may be worthwile replacing the pretty pointless damage bonus (damage bonus on an EW ship.. lol) for a EW strength bonus.
A boost to the drone bays (not bandwitdh) of all recons (other than the curse which is perfect/overpowered in this regard) wouldn't be amiss so they can be more flexable in the drones they can carry, arazu/lach should be the top of the drone bay sizes. Perhaps the T1 varients could do with the same love?
|
Arengor
Glittering Dust Wild Hunt.
|
Posted - 2009.08.26 10:47:00 -
[238]
Bump |
Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.08.26 15:13:00 -
[239]
personally I would be happy for RSD's to be boosted massively, but then given a 100% stacking nerf. I dislike having to put 3 damps onto a single target in order to achieve anything of note.
Also, the Hybrid bonus is something of a bad joke since you can't fit much of merit in the rest of the ship whilst fitting anything above Dual 150 rails (which have poor range even with spike and damage that is not worth noting), so would swap that for a boost in RSD strength bonus to put it on par with the falcon in concentrated bonus'.
The Scram range bonus has, imo been superseeded for the most part by the tackle inties and where these ships can attain longer ranges, the ships higher lock time is such that for the most part a tackle inty can close the difference in that time. True an Arazu can project a faction scram out to ~20km (TS scram is the only one I've looked at), but I'm not sure that is enough to save the ship given its natively fragile nature (falcons complain at having to get within 60km, never mind 20km). --------------------------------------------
SF Recruiting |
bw8
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Posted - 2009.08.26 17:58:00 -
[240]
ya, the arazu is (somewhat) good at holding stuff down via disruptor, and as an ewar platform (damps), but it's really such a weak ship it's pitiful. plus, you can often just damp 1 or 2 ships at a time as any more than 3 damps really nerfs the ship itself (fitting, cap issues).
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Iskoff
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Posted - 2009.10.02 06:36:00 -
[241]
Up |
Prexir
Sane Industries Inc. Novus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.10.02 06:54:00 -
[242]
Supported
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Aionstar
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Posted - 2009.10.02 07:47:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Xorth Adimus Agree on boosting sensor damp effects on arazu/lach/keres et all by around 7.5% per skill level.
As per the rapier/huginn it may be worthwile replacing the pretty pointless damage bonus (damage bonus on an EW ship.. lol) for a EW strength bonus.
A boost to the drone bays (not bandwitdh) of all recons (other than the curse which is perfect/overpowered in this regard) wouldn't be amiss so they can be more flexable in the drones they can carry, arazu/lach should be the top of the drone bay sizes. Perhaps the T1 varients could do with the same love?
THIS
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.02 16:11:00 -
[244]
everything has already been sayd Fix Destroyers |
Royaldo
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.15 22:00:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Royaldo on 15/10/2009 22:00:45 rabble
rabblerabblerabblerabble
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