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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:32:00 -
[1]
High-sec Salvage Theft has become a rapidly growing and very popular profession - it is not the most respected profession in EVE, nor the most honest profession, but it's also turned to be a very profitable profession, and is no doubt the safest profession in EVE next to production, trading, and research.
In a very popular and large issue/debate, is the salvage mechanics that make this profession so easy and so popular.
On one side is the salvage thief on the defensive. They have decent ISK, a constant supply of it, and it has nearly no risk at all. Chances are, the majority of working salvage thief's are Alternate Characters, and a lot of them are in NPC corporations. The only situations that puts a salvage thief's assets/ISK at risk is when A) a wardec is issued, B) the salvage thief is suicide bombed. Yes, that's it - you can see why this is a popular profession. What salvage thiefs want - is to just be left alone, keep things as they are, don't change the system.
The issue is that when a wardec is issued, salvage theifs just need to fit warpcore stabilizers. They are in fast probe frigates, they are hard to catch, hard to kill. The only way a wardec can effectively harm a salvage thief, is by making it impossible for them to do what they do, if a dedicated system-wide is provided by the attackers. The other problem is that no one wants to suicide bomb them, or they are in the wrong ships at the wrong time to try and do that - and it is pointless because 99% of the common salvage theif's net worth is in stations with the rest of their salvage, not on their 1,000,000.00 ISK ship. On one side, is the mission-runners, who feel that it's unbalanced, unfair, and too risk-free that Salvage Thiefs. CCP has made it very clear that they feel that salvage mechanics are fine where they are, and it doesn't even need to be discussed over. Regardless of this, mission-runners understand CCP's stance on this - however, they do not agree that CCP's judgement on this is at all sound, in fact it is thought by many to be very flawed, unbalanced, and favoritism. What the mission runners want: some sort of flag after someone salvages their wreck, so they have some peace of mind they can at least retaliate with some chance of liberating their cargo, and putting balance between the two professions as it should be.
The mission-runner community against this - one phrase that will sum up their feelings on this: Great Frustration, and Utterly Disgusted
Great frustration, to the point where some mission runners - including myself - are seriously considering abandoning the profession, and moving into a other. It has literally reached the point where there is so many thief's in high-sec, that It turns out we can make more, sometimes a lot more, ISK doing other things.
Utterly Disgusted, with CCP's refusal to discuss this topic and the impact it is having on mission runners, and how horribly distorted the concept of risk-versus-reward is due to this mechanic, and how immensely one-sided it is.
The one thing left, which in a lot of ways mission runners has already exercised, is Desperation. An example is, the only effective counter measure to prevent a salvage thief from stealing, is blowing up your own wrecks - so in the very least, no party gains from this at all. The next level of desperation will be abandoning the mission running industry, and going into another profession - which is what could happen soon on a growing scale. Why this is: because there is better ISK in other fields, since the majority of salvage is being lost, and this is the only effective means to combat salvage thief's - starving them. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:33:00 -
[2]
Reserved. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:35:00 -
[3]
Been stolen from once, why? I don't mish in Motsu. Case closed. Next caller.
Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Louis deGuerre
Chimera Tech
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:37:00 -
[4]
*yawns* You know CCP won't change a thing so why bother posting at all ? I have no issue at all with salvage ninjas and I sadly spend a lot of time running missions instead of PvP. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Legion of Shadow is looking for recruits. |
Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amastat The next level of desperation will be abandoning the mission running industry, and going into another profession - which is what could happen soon on a growing scale. Why this is: because there is better ISK in other fields, since the majority of salvage is being lost, and this is the only effective means to combat salvage thief's - starving them.
Thats not desperation - that is called "Adapting". It is how people become successful. The ones that keep on bashing their heads against the wall, crying all the time "Why can't you change things so what I am doing makes me successful" are called "Failures".
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Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 06/06/2008 08:41:23 Been stolen from never, i dont mission in hubs.
Often enough i just ask in local if anyone is intrested in salvaging the mission. They happy, and i dont care because i dont salvage 95% of the missions anyway. Serpentis/guristas salvage gets me much less isk than just running the mission, bloodraider bit less, and angel about the same - bit more than running mission. Salvage thiefs also got to scan the mission runner (not that much work, but it also means changing ship), and then hope the mission runner is doing a good mission and you dont end up in recon 3/3.
You say it is the safest profession in eve where you got to undock. How exactly is it safe to be in an area with a group of npc battleships and smaller ships with barely a tank?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:44:00 -
[7]
I'm sorry, you mean highsec isn't made of absolute safety anymore? Gee wiz, time for a whine!
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre *yawns* You know CCP won't change a thing so why bother posting at all ? I have no issue at all with salvage ninjas and I sadly spend a lot of time running missions instead of PvP.
Yea - but I'm just saying what is is, something for people to think about a few months later. Maybe mission runners will wise up and band together, actually watch each others back from this problem - and try to campaign against it collectively - this is the only chance we have. This is why we are overwhelmingly frustrated, because CCP intentionally ignores this. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Dr NOe
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:48:00 -
[9]
Been doing missions. And Salvaged all of them. Not once had a Ninja.
If its so rampant as you say how come i have not been hit with this massive crime wave?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Amastat
I'm also concerned that if mission running industry suffers a steep decline, that this could hurt the economy in a lot of ways. However, this obviously is not good for theifs because they are losing their crops to harvest, but all in all it will be bad for everyone - no one person.
Mission running decline hurting the economy? If anything it will make it healthier, less flow of ISK = less inflation.
I refuse to respect religious beliefs, and i refuse to respect people who hold them. |
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Amastat
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Amastat on 06/06/2008 08:51:49
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Amastat
I'm also concerned that if mission running industry suffers a steep decline, that this could hurt the economy in a lot of ways. However, this obviously is not good for theifs because they are losing their crops to harvest, but all in all it will be bad for everyone - no one person.
Mission running decline hurting the economy? If anything it will make it healthier, less flow of ISK = less inflation.
I'm having a hard time seeing how a steep drop in raw materials will help. That would cause there to be less supply of minerals, modules, and salvage in particular. What happens if all that supply disappears while a huge demand remains?
Either way - I have little or nothing to complain about anymore, because I'm giving up mission running. More could follow in a few months maybe, and you can bet that you will see more and more thief's and even see them outside the mission hubs. Sorry to the mission runners on the edge of high sec who have no idea there is a tidal wave of thiefs heading straight for them, I thought I was safe too and I was dead-wrong. ____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Furb Killer
The Peacekeeper Core
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 06/06/2008 08:52:43 Edited by: Furb Killer on 06/06/2008 08:51:55 How exactly will this be death of mission running?
Get out of motsu/dodixie, no problem anymore. Dont salvage, or even ask in local if anyone wants to salvage, you dont need to care about salvage thiefs. Salvaging isnt that good compared to just running the mission, and it is even more boring than running the mission Get a marauder.
Edit: Minerals will be mined Modules will be built (only meta 3-4 modules will increase in price) Salvage will indeed decrease if no one runs missions anymore. But then there also arent salvage thiefs and you can run missions again.
Troll?
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Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Amastat What happens if all that supply disappears while a huge demand remains?
OH NOES THE SKY IS FALLING.
Or perhaps some wily players will spot the demand and start working on a supply.
Economies are not static things you know - they are dynamic. You cannot just say "if I change this one variable" - because as you move your variable all the others changes too. This is why modeling economies is a complex and formidable task.
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AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:57:00 -
[14]
Wrecks do not belong to the mission runner, only the loot contained inside. Simple as that.
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Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:57:00 -
[15]
But the reason they can thieve the wrecks is because the carebears CRIED until CCP changed it so that you could salvage an unlooted wreck.
So now CCP gave them what they wished for, they are crying?
Just wow.....
--- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
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Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:59:00 -
[16]
How about, when somebody CONCORD's the wreck + loot is free for everybody.
UNLESS somebody salvages it. The resultant can gives the taker aggro against the CONCORDed guys corp.
That's a tiny deal, but still bigger than the one you're whining about.
--- Did I upset the wrong alliance with this post? Please don't ban me when it's your shift to control the Mitnal account.
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Jastra
Stardream Research
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Posted - 2008.06.06 08:59:00 -
[17]
an empire mission runner complaining about a no-risk career, now even I'm suprised at that!!
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Chzandri
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:00:00 -
[18]
how about hiring two newbies, giving them two destroyers, and taking them along on the missions so that they can get to salvaging right after?
your newbies will quickly cover a lot of wrecks in two dessies, you get some portion of salvage material and make two newbies very happy by sharing some of it with them, and you'll make the salvage thieves very frustrated ... this is a much better alternative than going around blowing your own wrecks up you gotta agree
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MinmatarCitizen 90242
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:04:00 -
[19]
Lol mission runners complaining about other people making easy ISK.
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Kransthow
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:05:00 -
[20]
these carebear tears are delicious
My alt is "Is Forporn" |
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Luh Windan
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kransthow these carebear tears are delicious
Poor carebears - not only are people stealing their salvage: Now you are eating their tears. Will the suffering never end for these misunderstood and put upon empire dwellers....
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Kransthow
Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Luh Windan
Originally by: Kransthow these carebear tears are delicious
Poor carebears - not only are people stealing their salvage: Now you are eating their tears. Will the suffering never end for these misunderstood and put upon empire dwellers....
no
My alt is "Is Forporn" |
Raymond Dawkins
School of Applied Fail
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:14:00 -
[23]
tl;dr
________ kthxbye |
Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Amastat What happens if all that supply disappears while a huge demand remains?
It's a durable good. A big supply of all market resources in Eve is the secondhand market. ---- Infiniband can do more than just prevent lag |
Merdaneth
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:18:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 06/06/2008 09:19:32 Agreed. I have the same problem with other miners mining my asteroids in belts: mineral thieves.
As with salvage thieves, High-sec Mineral Theft has also become a rapidly growing and very popular profession - it is not the most respected profession in EVE, nor the most honest profession, but it's also turned to be a very profitable profession, and is no doubt the safest profession in EVE next to production, trading, and research.
In a very popular and large issue/debate, is the mining mechanics that make this profession so easy and so popular.
On one side is the mineral thief on the defensive. They have decent ISK, a constant supply of it, and it has nearly no risk at all. Chances are, the majority of working mineral thief's are Alternate Characters, and a lot of them are in NPC corporations. The only situations that puts a mineral thief's assets/ISK at risk is when A) a wardec is issued, B) the mineral thief is suicide bombed. Yes, that's it - you can see why this is a popular profession. What mineral thiefs want - is to just be left alone, keep things as they are, don't change the system.
The mining community against this - one phrase that will sum up their feelings on this: Great Frustration, and Utterly Disgusted
Great frustration, to the point where some miners - including myself - are seriously considering abandoning the profession, and moving into a other. It has literally reached the point where there is so many miners in high-sec, that it turns out we can make more, sometimes a lot more, ISK doing other things.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:23:00 -
[26]
Rofl. That was great.
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ramzahn
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:26:00 -
[27]
The problem, as I see it, is more that people are able to barge into your mission in the first place.
Why is this made possible? Why don't missions happen in secluded rooms where no-one else has entrance? Why is it named "Deadspace" if it is just normal space?
I think this is a deliberate attempt to get people off missions and more into PvP.
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Armoured C
Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:32:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Armoured C on 06/06/2008 09:32:20 i salvage on teh go with my domi through the mission
plus if you all stop missioning that would be great that should stop lots of lag so iim in favour of more salvage ninjas
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:32:00 -
[29]
posting in a "my salvage was stolen thread" no 167543.
Dude gtfo no one cares and you are just like all the other whiners that posted these kind of threads before you. |
CRUSH BOSS
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.06 09:32:00 -
[30]
what more do you guys want? GOLEM = Problem Fixed.
Thats what i do all my missions in, and hey, it can kill and salvage at the SAME time.
We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE Don't troll in your signature please. -Hango |
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