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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 07:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kai Zion on 08/06/2008 07:19:23
Before we get down to the nitty gritty suggestions, a brief preamble on why some think roleplay in Eve is important, relevant and worthy of CCP attention.
The nature of how Eve functions, where you have one person living in the same universe as any other, has had a profound impact on what ôroleplayö actually means in Eve Online. It is quite unique and different from almost every other MMORPG out there. It has taken some time, but the wider Eve community I think, is beginning to realize that ôEve roleplayersö are an entirely different breed of animal to the ôroleplayersö they may have seen in the past. For their own part, many roleplayers donÆt even consider themselves as such. They reject the RPer/Non-RPer dichotomy entirely, saying that in a game such as Eve, where everyone is effectively playing a role, such a categorization is meaningless. This is the nature of RP in Eve.
Various entities with RP inclinations have stood up on the ôbig boysö stage and proven that their roleplay can work successfully within the greater in-game framework and not automatically render them irrelevant. This is another part of what makes it so unique. There is no ôroleplayersö shard, they occupy the same space as ônon-roleplayersö and they have to fight as hard as any other group to become successful and relevant. At times, due to the self-imposed limitations their roleplay brings, they have to fight even harder.
Roleplay in eve is far more than simply lounging in bars discussing holoreels û it has consequence and adds context and meaning to fights. You cannot roleplay a hotshot combat pilot if you donÆt have the skills to back it up û people will simply ignore you or worse yet, call you on it and splatter you across the space pavement.
Roleplay in Eve functions in a similar way to the political machinations of nullsec alliances; there is intrigue, drama and a narrative that grounds (and provides motivations for) ingame actions and everything in between. The only difference is roleplay derives that from the Eve Online backstory, in addition to player actions (which is what the usual nullsec alliance draws from exclusively).
With the onset of factional warfare, there is a huge opportunity to build upon what will likely be a growing interest in EveÆs already rich backstory. As the storyline becomes increasingly integrated into actual gameplay and gameplay mechanics, so too will it be worthy of an appropriately increased priority in terms of CCPÆs resource allocation. Right now, there are major roleplay elements taking centre stage with this new expansion. Given this, there are those who think it a fitting time for CCP to consider and reconsider various roleplay issues in their game. CCP can pioneer new levels of storyline and player interaction here, and become even more than it is now, the envy of the MMORPG industry.
There are countless ways to improve the storyline, its presentation and its accessibility. These range from the most minor of things to big and bold ideas. The majority of the points outlined below are suggestions aimed at doing just that. The list of issues below touch on some key points, but the list is by no means exhaustive. Anyone with any further input or suggestions is encouraged to add to them. These points were compiled by various people who frequent the chatsubo forum community, where roleplay is discussed at length and with passion. 
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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 07:12:00 -
[2]
Small things:
òNews request; incorporate player entities more openly: It would be nice to see NPC bodies/factions/etc reacting a little bit more to player actions; for ready example, the Republic actually making public their stance on Ushra'Khan activities. Silly little news article stuff like that would make a big, big difference to the living, breathing feel of the game world.
òIn-game Racial Channel MOTDs encouraging roleplay: You could also ask if the Empire channels could get some form of ISD monitoring, or at the very least, an MOTD stating that whilst the channel is for general use, IC interaction is encouraged and preferred.
òEON Chronicles made public retrospectively: I'm not sure whether they're doing this already, but would it be possible for fiction appearing in EON to appear in the library a few months later?
òAdding ôRoleplayö as a corporate recruitment filter: Give us ôRoleplayingö as a filtering option for the corporate recruitment mechanic. Yes, itÆs an OOC category. Yes it encourages the mindset of a RP/OOC divide. If you ask me, that is a small price to pay for getting more people seeking RP in touch with the right people. Once theyÆre ôinductedö they can learn how RP in Eve is so different that the category is almost void of meaning.
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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 07:13:00 -
[3]
Big things:
òWrapping up long-unfinished arcs: It would be nice to see some of the unfinished arcs finally finished off - Tetrimon, Vitoc cure, Amarr Emperor and so on.
òEvents and story arcs; adding player influence and making them dynamic: Let players completely influence the story. Give them the opportunity to. Have Heth riding around in a Titan some day doing fleet reviews. If the people who hate Heth can manage to come in and kill him, then he's dead. Any plot that is planned has ways for players to get involved and totally rewrite the plot with their actions. That would be my dream state, though I know it is likely not to be even considered.
òPlayer influence and dynamic events (Version 2.0): A slightly toned down version of the above. Let us influence the storylines. The more our characters become relevant and integrated into gameplay, the more roleplay benefits as a whole. ItÆs looking like FW might let us do these things to some extent, so I have hope. Even if itÆs not to the extent where we can kill the main players, letting us alter the main story in smaller (yet still significant) ways would draw a lot of interest. Who wouldnÆt like to be part of the corporation that single-handedly ended the reign of a some local system dictator or some such?
òFixing the news system, issues and suggestions: Fix the news system. Better yet, rework it entirely. At least fix it though because itÆs pretty damn broken at this point in time. As one of the more important delivery systems for roleplay/fiction events, it really needs it. There is no IGB support beyond the ôheadlinesö and the stories there change so rapidly at times (like right now) that if you donÆt log in once every day or two, you need to go to the news site OOG to catch up on whatÆs happening.
Then, when you go to the OOG site, articles that are weeks old (sometimes even just days when itÆs busy) slip off the news page andàinto oblivion. Archives are non-existent. You are reliant on an RSS feed workaround which is really clunky. Very old articles do not even display on the Eve site anymore.
At the very least, restore the functionality we once had. At the very most, sex it up greatly. ItÆs an opportunity to really ôbeef upö and ôsex upö roleplay and factional warfare. If storyline is going to become a focus for the foreseeable future, why do we have so much of it delivered in such a woeful medium?
òForum reorganization: Reorganise the forums to better facilitate in-character interaction. Have an entire ôRoleplayö (or whatever you want to call it) section with: IGS / CAS / Library / Stories (that section would be new) section. Maybe rename the CAS so that itÆs FW-oriented and used for that purpose (and have any NPCs you have for FW [I hope!] do their announcements there)
ò More Chronicles: More Chronicles! Surely there are others in CCP who want to write stuff? No? Get the community to write again then!
òMore in-game description content: More Descriptions! Systems / Planets / Stations / Channels / Items / Etcàyou get the idea. CCP doesnÆt have the time for these things? Get the community to!
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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 07:13:00 -
[4]
òUsing the community to advance RP interests and enrich the game: Use the community more. Not just the ôRP Communityö but really the wider ôEve Communityö. ItÆs a vast and almost entirely unexploited resource. Just because you ask people to submit descriptions, chronicles, whatever doesnÆt tie you down to actually using them. Make that much abundantly clear and then open the floodgates.
If people could add a little piece of themselves to the game, it makes them feel that much more invested in Eve. Thousands of playersàthatÆs potentially thousands of submissions.
DonÆt think youÆll get an overwhelming response? Offer ingame prizes (neednÆt be ISK, just something unique even, something prestigious). Offer OOG rewards perhaps, for people who submit a lot of stuff (EON magazine, signed piece of concept art, merchandise, you get the idea)
òGetting some basic RP ôfactsö established: How about regular dev chats were people can ask questions about PF and get straight answers. Or beyond this, just facts about the world. You don't need to detail every single tribal custom of the Minmatar. But giving three or four for each tribe would be lovely. And there are things where player creativity has no role in things. The number, names, and reigns of the Amarr Emperors. Past Federation presidents. Population numbers. These things are important for those who take an interest in EveÆs already-rich backstory.
òMake the universe have more influence in game terms: For example, an Amarr & Minmatar cooperation should be made more difficult, given the difference of cultures, with the loss of a variety of bonuses...
òPiracy and fight against piracy need a revamp to allow roles to exist:
For example, when an anti-pirate corporation attacks and hunt pirates, they loose security status, are attacked by sentry guns and can be seen as pirates themselves... So we need better rules to order this somehow, for example that attacking a lower security status than you doesn't lower your SS and so forth...
Proposed solution: Bring the DED Connections skill into the game, but instead of paying out extra bounty for NPC kills, make it decrease the threshold at which an enemy can be considered an outlaw. So with level 1 in the skill, you can freely shoot at someone who's at -4 sec standing, at level 2 the threshold is -3, until finally at level 5, anyone with a negative sec rating at all is fair game. If that's a bit too tough on the "minor offenders", you could also make it so that this kind of vigilantism is accepted only in low security space.
òOne should be able to join NPC corporations with a good value added.
For example, a player should be able to join Empire's navies. He would receive missions, fly alongside other navy ships, etc. Should he not comply, he would be dismissed from the navy (joining a navy have its needs).
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.08 12:19:00 -
[5]
Some very good ideas and suggestions there. I agree its a valid topic for CSM discussion under a general heading of "promoting roleplay in eve online" - it probably needs to be coupled with Rodj Blakes thread: here
Rodj talks about the specific problem of unfinished storylines with Amarrian roleplay but its obviously a general issue with all storylines.
Anyway, supported!
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Akikio Lankinen
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2008.06.08 12:50:00 -
[6]
Signed
Hook up to YTZ com-sat |
Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:12:00 -
[7]
Cheers for bringing that to my attention Jade.
Frankly a lot of things (like the issue Rodj raised) are worthy of their own thread, but in the interests of not spamming the hell out of these forums, a list of "roleplay issues" is probably the best way to go.
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Dionisius
The Circle
STYX.
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:22:00 -
[8]
Now this is definately a very good ideia.
Great one Kai.
_____________________________________
I am the destroyer of worlds and the also the cokie thief. |
Che Biko
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Che Biko on 08/06/2008 13:47:18
Indeed, descriptions. That would make it a little easier to decide where my character was born and grew up, or where he would like to live, where I COULD live even.
Also, I'm playing a 27 year old, but the "birthdate" says otherwise. Could this be changed to "graduation date"or something. And while I'm at it, set the ingame clock to EST (110 instead of 2008), or at least create an option to do so, or have a place where you can find the EST date easily. (I had to gravedig through old threads containing conflicting information to figure it out.)
General support!
- ChT Biko
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:44:00 -
[10]
reserved
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.08 14:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 08/06/2008 14:17:57
Control
CCP need to be able to exercise a certain level of control over their product. If it were genuinely possible for an entire NPC faction to be wiped out because of the actions of players in the game, then all the work to do with that factions background and story, all their ships etc become essentially wasted effort on the part of the dev team
However, having said all that, I'd still like to see more attention for roleplay concerns, even if I think that CCP would be better off just admitting the whole thing is a farce and getting out in the open what the game is really all about
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Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.06.08 15:48:00 -
[12]
In general CCP needs to look at the resources they put towards their background as it becomes a larger part of the game itself. It doesn't need to be on the scale that the pen & paper companies do it, but it should probably be equal to a PnP core source book (Shadowrun's corebook, D&D's Eberron & Forgotten Realms corebooks, Serenity RPG corebook, etc).
 Founder Heiian Society |
Kyoko Sakoda
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.08 16:47:00 -
[13]
Supported (and nicely written).
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 17:55:00 -
[14]
Spoon, thanks for the input. You raise some good points which IÆll try to address.
I will say first however, that most of what youÆve said doesnÆt actually contradict the majority of ideas proposed above. IÆll get into that as I go along though.
On immersion =/= roleplay: I absolutely agree, I think any rational person would. ThereÆs far more to immersion than simply ôimmersion in the roleplay elementsö. I hope you donÆt get the wrong idea from me questioning how this is relevant, however. Nobody is suggesting that ôimmersion via roleplayö take primacy over those other, more important elements. I believe the general consensus is more simply that it should be ôbumped up a notch.ö
Prime fiction is artificial: It seems here, that youÆre using the term ôartificialö to mean ônot integrated into gameplayö. ItÆs certainly true that a great deal of the backstory/prime fiction elements are not manifested in in-game mechanics.
However, prime fiction and backstory is just one part of roleplay. If you buy into the mindset that each and every person playing Eve is essentially playing one role or another, and thus, roleplaying to at least some extent, then you will likely also view fiction and backstory as a minor part of roleplay. In many ways it is. That isnÆt the whole story however.
If you hold that player interaction and action is the ôimportant stuffö when it comes to roleplay in Eve, then you have to also account for the role that Prime Fiction plays in influencing such things.
PF enriches player interaction and motivation. If the sum total of Amarrian PF to date was simply the two statements: ôThey are religious. They enslave Minmatar.ö Then would CVA even exist at all? If they did, would they have chosen to expand the EmpireÆs reach into Providence? I seriously doubt it.
The motivations your own alliance has to behave in the way it does are, in part, drawn directly from the rich backstory of the Amarrian Empire. A group like CVA could have lived in a far more profitable region, that you chose Providence of all places is testament to the role Prime Fiction / Backstory can play in influencing player (and character) decisions.
You say that ôthe most real experience is the 0.0 experience of epic battlesö. YouÆre probably pretty close to the mark there (at least for a significant amount of people, anyhow). The thing to remember however, is that:
a)All of those battles can be framed in a way that doesnÆt disassociate them from roleplaying entirely. SirMolle plays the role of space tyrant, Goons play the role of anti-authority upstarts making the unkillable beast bleed. This is stuff no content department could ever write as well as the players do each day with their actions. This stuff, this rich tapestry that players weave daily with their own actions, it is a ôprime fictionö in and of itself. CVA is as much an ingame reality as Ishukone. Neither is ômore realö than the other in RP terms.
b)Some of those battles are actually overtly framed in roleplay terms. Your own alliance is the very best example of this. YouÆre doing more than simply fighting over territory, the glory of the Empire is at stake. ThereÆs a more complex context and a deeper meaning to your battles than there is for most. Many in your alliance make a conscious and considerable effort to bring that out.
So yeah, I see your point. However, a more broad definition of what constitutes roleplay means that those concerns you have are entirely dealt with.
(ItÆs kind of odd actually. I almost dropped CVAÆs name in that preamble, when I was talking about how roleplay alliances have walked the walked with the big boys, and shown how RP is more than just ôpen and paperö stuff. Your alliance is a shining example of this mindset. Now I have someone in CVA arguing it! :P)
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Kai Zion
The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2008.06.08 17:57:00 -
[15]
This ties into your other point regarding Commercial Interest. When you broaden the definition of what roleplay is û in a nutshell, something everyone engages in on some level û then anything that benefits RP benefits everyone. That said, some people donÆt agree with that definition, and even those who do have to concede the point that even if everyone roleplays, many people wonÆt appreciate resources going into beefing out the backstory when it could have been allocated to other things. If people only roleplay ôto an extentö then things that benefit RP will only benefit them ôto an extentö as well.
Any consideration on CCPÆs behalf about ways to further RP in Eve needs to take this into account. For my own part, I want to see ôRPö and ôthe rest of stuffö become integrated to the point where any categorization is essentially meaningless and it becomes harder û for everyone involved û to distinguish between the two. If we can already frame everything in a very loose definition of roleplay, then there is arguably the possibility to achieve this over time.
Anyways, I hope that cleared a few things up. I should probably emphasise at this point that I only speak for myself here. 
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Aralis
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.08 19:34:00 -
[16]
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Mundem Pashdale
20th Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.08 20:01:00 -
[17]
I'd not describe myself as a RPer, but that's because I've not had the chance. I read the news stories and think 'wouldn't it be cool to be involved in that?'
The idea of freeing a system from a dictator/killing a pirate boss etc has been done befor by CCP. I wish it was done more often and on a wider scale.
Who DOESN'T like thier name in the news?
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Vendrin
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.08 22:16:00 -
[18]
Definitely signed.
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Creson
Dragons Of Amarr
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:39:00 -
[19]
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Hardin
Praetoria Technologies
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:49:00 -
[20]
Agree with this proposal.
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Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
Advert |
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Araviel
Epic.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:02:00 -
[21]
throwing in my support
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Niding
Polaris Project
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:05:00 -
[22]
Support the idea presented in OP. |
Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.15 16:30:00 -
[23]
As a supporter of the Nation and someone who has no idea who their current leadership is, what their goals are, or if there is any more to them than Zombots I strongly support both the ideas to introduce new pieces of flavor material and a general fleshing out of factions that seem to get ignored in the wake of the big four.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2008.06.15 17:29:00 -
[24]
aye
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White Ronin
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.15 20:23:00 -
[25]
supported
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Feng Schui
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.06.15 23:20:00 -
[26]
Agreed that there needs to be alot more interaction within the world of Eve that corresponds towards player events as well as information about Eve as a whole.
It is also quite disappointing that the pirate corporations (player and NPC) receive little to no attention in these regards 
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Eveliddia
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.16 00:37:00 -
[27]
I have been enjoying the new story arcs, even if they do not align with previous ones and I hope CCP keeps it up.
I agree with this proposal whole heartedly.
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Micia
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.16 00:38:00 -
[28]
Good ideas.  |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.16 00:43:00 -
[29]
Got voted through the CSM without opposition today.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.16 16:28:00 -
[30]
I agree. Can i vote with my other account as well? |
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