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Poreuomai
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:42:00 -
[1]
Many, if not most, seem to think the Raven is the best level 4 mission ship.
What makes it so good?
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Steyr Daghan
thx for all the fish Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.06.09 11:59:00 -
[2]
The combination of missiles, good tank and slot layout. It is capable of tanking the damage-intensive level 4s with no problem and missiles means easy semi-handsoff killing of the rats. The slot layout means you can balance tank versus damage pretty much as you like.
That said, you can do just fine with other ships than raven.
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Trevarre Schuldig
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:07:00 -
[3]
super easy to train, missile skills need for lvl 4 is a joke, missiles suffer no tracking, no missing, and have base range further then any spawns in l4 missions.
can train for t1 shield fitting and still be able to tank 90% of lvl 4 missions, this is because there's oversized shield rep in game x-large boosters, armor reps only go up to large.
shield tanking means more slots in low for damage mods, also capless weapons mean more cap for tanking.
it's the perfect storm for mission running.
2-3mil sp is enough to run l4 missions in a raven if u avoid the harder missions <span><a href="http://hellarity.us/in-bed"><img src="http://www.hellarity.us/in-bed/quiz/gd4.php?cost=1,102" style="z-index:55;" alt="bedroom toys" border=0></a> <span style="font-size: 8px; positio |
Poreuomai
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:24:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 09/06/2008 12:28:18
I've done a few level 4s in the Maelstrom and the tank is great.
The problem is the DPS for me - unless I use dual 650mm 'scout' Repeating Artillery I, for which you have to get within 10KM.
I'd prefer to avoid the (rather silly) T2 large artillery kill tree. Training caldari frig to 5, caldari cruiser to 4, and caldari BS to 4 would be quicker, especially as I have the other support skills already.
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Mr Merenque
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:30:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Trevarre Schuldig super easy to train, missile skills need for lvl 4 is a joke, missiles suffer no tracking, no missing, and have base range further then any spawns in l4 missions.
can train for t1 shield fitting and still be able to tank 90% of lvl 4 missions, this is because there's oversized shield rep in game x-large boosters, armor reps only go up to large.
shield tanking means more slots in low for damage mods, also capless weapons mean more cap for tanking.
it's the perfect storm for mission running.
2-3mil sp is enough to run l4 missions in a raven if u avoid the harder missions
This. Anyways, a Dominix or even Megathron do work pretty well on lvl4's as well. A uber tanked domi can do lvl4s semi afk while let the drones do the work. A Mega will most probably be the fastest mission ship, if fitted for maximum damage.
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cal nereus
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: cal nereus on 09/06/2008 12:49:37
It's the lazy man's best friend. The Raven doesn't have to worry about getting into optimal range, tanks just fine, and can use all four damage types.
Personally, I prefer the Dominix, which also doesn't have to worry about getting into optimal range, tanks just fine, and can use all four damage types. --- Earning Isk Basic Skills |
Admiral Madbull
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Admiral Madbull on 09/06/2008 12:53:49
The raven is the fast but dull way to go, dull couse most fly it.
weapons: - Missiles can target the npcs worse resistance, making it easy to kill them. - The range of cruisers helps you do the missions quick since you almost always have everything on range.
Tank: - the number of midslots makes it easy to set a 2x2 hardners setup, getting your resistance for rat specifik damage types well above 80%, so you wont take that much damage. - Shields gives instant boost and most boost for repairs, using amplifiers also adds the amount of "free" boost you get for same cap.
Drones: The raven has a big drone capacity, so you can have lots of drones that takes cares of the frigs for you wile you kill the cruisers and battleships. This speeds up missions alot.
Isk: Doesnt take much isk to get a t2 fitted raven
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.06.09 19:26:00 -
[8]
It is not the best, simply the easiest to train and fly.
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Poreuomai
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:20:00 -
[9]
Thank you for your insights, much appreciated.
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Dagas Hunter
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Posted - 2008.06.10 21:47:00 -
[10]
I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP |
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FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.06.10 22:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP
Maybe you are not using the right tactics? |
Poreuomai
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
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Posted - 2008.06.10 22:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42
Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP
What is your setup?
I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers.
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Dagas Hunter
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Posted - 2008.06.10 22:47:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42
Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP
What is your setup?
I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers.
Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was.
6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos)
4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now)
2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called)
and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive)
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Leeloo Jovovich
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.06.10 23:14:00 -
[14]
If tanking the damage is your problem, I'm guessing it's your low slots that are the problem. Wouldn't at least one PDU (Power Diagnostic System) help you shield recharge rate? |
Ensignman
The Order of Cistral The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2008.06.10 23:15:00 -
[15]
In most Lvl 4s you won't really need the sig amp and sensor booster, drop them for CPR IIs, and get some rigs to increase your tank/recharge rate. |
Dagas Hunter
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Posted - 2008.06.11 01:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 11/06/2008 01:41:31 yeah I guess that would be smarter. I just like the extra range to be able to target the NPC's that spawn 100km away and I also have problems with being jammed by guristas.
Maybe it's better to use FoF on gurista missions? and have 2 PDU...
Have been thinking of getting another ship, but maybe I'll return to flying a raven again anyway.
Forgot to say that I had 3x CCC rigs to help my cap recharge.
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Weakmind
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Posted - 2008.06.11 02:33:00 -
[17]
I use: 6x t2 cruise tractor beam
then this: 4 x specific hardeners t2 (3 sometimes only) 1 xl sb T2 1 x shield amp (1 x cap recharge t2, if not 4 hardeners)
3 x BCU t2 (2 sometimes if better tank needed) 2 x PDU t2 (3 - see above)
3 x CCC rigs
Tanks perfectly really, as long as you dont aggro too much.
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Zakgram
Atomic Heroes Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 06:25:00 -
[18]
Drop 1 hardner and fit an extra t2 shield boost amp. EFT before and after... you may be better off |
Jenny Loo
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Posted - 2008.06.11 08:50:00 -
[19]
Replace 1 hardener with a large cap booster. Use low slots 2xPDU and 3xBCS for better dps. I'm doing L4's with half-T1 raven and have no problems except for some missions when the dps is too high and I need to warp out once.
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InSession
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:44:00 -
[20]
Dominix is nice too, with good drone skills you can do some missions AFK (ones that have no triggers for additional spawns). Get full aggro, drones set on aggressive, and just walk away. It's possible to get a nice resistance tank + dual LAR II cap stable. |
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Svekke
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:51:00 -
[21]
Drop the tractor and get 2x heavy nosses and an alt to salvage :) |
Seatoo
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.06.11 10:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42
Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP
What is your setup?
I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers.
Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was.
6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos)
4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now)
2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called)
and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive)
i solo lvl 4s with only t2 hardeners (only 4.5m SP), i guess its just your play style/tactics
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Scruff Mcgruff
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:36:00 -
[23]
Good skills certainly help with tanking, but using Crystal implants made a huge difference in my mission running. They are expensive but well worth the price. Using these implants allows me to permatank 95% of all level 4s with a standard large T2 Shield Booster. I only fit an XL booster on WC and Mordus Headhunters. The only drawback is that they are only +3s and you wouldnt want to PVP with these unless you are rolling in cash. |
Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:55:00 -
[24]
It is the cruise missiles and shield tank allowing damage mods due to use of mids rather than lows. The actual tank on a raven is weak, due to it being insanely cap hungry, the raven mainly relies on killing things quickly and easily as a big part of its tank. |
Hegotu Alecto
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Hegotu Alecto on 11/06/2008 16:46:58 i passivetank my raven and it happily tanks lvl 4's
though thesedays i use a CNR passive its setup is 7x Cruise t2 or my caldari navy ones 1 tractor beam 3-4 hardeners, depends really t2 or faction 2-3 LSEt2 5x Shield power Relays t2 3x Purger Rigs
5x medium drones t2
my range on missiles is 250km lock range is just shy of 100km, and all i do is sit and get aggro from whole room, launch drones and set them on the frigs while i kill the bigger ships. dont take long, then i come back in a hauler for salvage and looting
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RC Denton
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Posted - 2008.06.11 21:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 10/06/2008 22:47:04
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/06/2008 22:11:42
Originally by: Dagas Hunter I've got all missile skills at 5, BS at 5 all cap and shield skills at 5 and still can't tank all lvl 4 missions in a Raven. How come you guys can do it with only 2-3m SP
What is your setup?
I would imagine that most people use an XL shield booster, a few mission specific shield hardners, and one or two shield boost amplifiers.
Have no setup now because it's gone, but it was.
6x arbalest cruise 1x named heavy nos 1x tractor beam (could not have activated at the same time as nos)
4x T2 rat-specific hardners 1x T2 XL shield booster 1x T1 shield boost amp (can use T2 now)
2x T2 BCU 1x T2 Damage control 1x T2 signal amp 1x T2 sensor boost (or what it's called)
and 5x T2 Hammarheads (when the were alive)
Well ya there ya go if you have all missile skills to 5 go:
6x t2 cruise with faction ammo if you want to spend the isk for hte extra DPS 1 xtractor 1x salvager
1x t2 xl boost amp 2x t2 rat specific hardner for the main rat dmg type (not the secondary) 2x t2 shield boost amp 1x heavy cap booster
3x BCU
5x med drones as appropriate 5x light drones as appropriate 3x core cap sa***uard rigs
As many 800 charges as you can fit in your cargo with ammo. This has let me tank all of the lvl 4s without too much trouble. Occasionally if I get full stage agro I need to warp out then back in. The problem it looks like you were having is not enough boost for too much cap and you were also probably capping out when boosting. The sa***uard rigs are really cheap and let you run the booster for a looong time without cap problems and the boost amps give you a huge amount of shield per cycle. |
FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.06.11 22:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Scruff Mcgruff The only drawback is that they are only +3s and you wouldnt want to PVP with these unless you are rolling in cash.
Isn't that the point of running missions? So that you are rolling in ISK? It's also easy to JC into a different head when you want to PvP. |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:14:00 -
[28]
Missile ships excell at PvE
Its that simple
However, in PvP, they do VERY poorly against speed tanks (and speed tanks are extremely common these days)
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Dagas Hunter
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Posted - 2008.06.12 01:48:00 -
[29]
RC Denton: I think I'm going to try your fitting, but is the second boost amp worth it? They get a penalty for more than one so isn't it better to put something else there? like maybe a hardener for the second damage type or something.
Also a BCU T2 only give about 10 % more damage, the third one would give what 3 %? seems quite insignificant. Maybe an extra PCU instead since they don't get a penalty?
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Carniflex
Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dagas Hunter Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 12/06/2008 05:54:39 Edited by: Dagas Hunter on 12/06/2008 05:54:23 RC Denton: I think I'm going to try your fitting, but is the second boost amp worth it? They get a penalty for more than one so isn't it better to put something else there? like maybe a hardener for the second damage type or something.
Also a BCU T2 only give about 10 % more damage, the third one would give what 3 %? seems quite insignificant. Maybe an extra PCU instead since they don't get a penalty?
EDIT: Because of CPU problems I couldn't do that fitting, but I hope It's still good enough.
6x T2 cruise, 2x named heavy vamp 4x T2 hardeners, 1x T2 XL boost, 1x T2 boost amp 2x T2 BCU, 2x T2 PCU, 1x T2 Co-processor 3x the rigs you talked about
As far as 3rd and 4th BCU go don't forget that BCU will give both damage and RoF bonus, so when using faction BCU's (12.5 % damage, 10% rof) even 4th of them still gives almost 5% dps increase all together. Overall 4th BCU makes sense if you are already able to do all missions without warpouts then why not use all spare slots to make them also faster. 3 rd BCU makes sense always if you can squeeze it into your setup without sacrificing your tanking ability.
I'm myself using setup quite similar to Denton's, running off cap injector altho I have managed to squeeze in also afterburner. Mine is on CNR tho so fittings are somewhat tighter and as a result I do need some faction gadgets to make it fit. On regular raven it should fit with minor modifications
Hi: 7x Cruise II 1x Auto Targeter I Med: CN XL booster, 3x CN hardeners (rat specific), H. cap injector II, Domination Afterburner Low: 4x CN BCU, 1x Signal Amp II Rigs/Drones: 3x missile signature ones, 5x light/medium T2
Can lock 10 targets and engage out to 112.5 km. You need to move approx 5 km in longest range missions to engage some targets and will always have next target locket to shoot at. Afterburner helps a lot with those missions with 75+ km between gates and just few lousy frigs to shoot at. Missile signature of approx 150m I get with this is adequate to do almost full damage to NPC cruisers also. If you can afford it throw in also 5% RoF and damahe hardwires, perhaps even 5% missile signature one (I dont have that, as that slot is already occupied with industrial hardwire in my case). |
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