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General StarScream
Gallente
Empyrean Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.30 08:08:00 -
[571]
I voted Jade, SO GOOO JADE. your doing a good job, taking on all of eve voices not just the fourm turds. |
EliteSlave
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:38:00 -
[572]
Kick Jade Out!
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Kingwood
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.07.01 01:49:00 -
[573]
Luckily I don't play Eve anymore. Gets a hearty chuckle and my support though. Go Eve! |
EliteSlave
Minmatar
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.01 17:49:00 -
[574]
 Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: SickSeven
Edited by: SickSeven on 26/06/2008 13:36:48
I support this for the simple fact that the Chair engages in childish banter with his critics.
You dont see real world people of power posting videos on youtube to call their critics names and liars.(not that this has happend with the CSM... yet)
Well here's one
This ones even better
This one is epic
Slap across the face
We could certainly go on ...
But anyways here's the bottom line. CCP recognize that the CSM delegates represent different interest groups from the community and its our role to best represent our constituencies. We had an excellent historical lecture on the roots of Icelandic democracy during the CSM conference and heard ourselves described as "internet chieftains" responsible for thrashing out laws and policies in open and passionate debate.
This is raw democracy and plain-speaking and its very far away from the sanitized image-politics of idealized process that some on this thread have lamented the lack off.
We had a superb conference in Iceland and each of the CSM delegates did an excellent job in representing their constituencies and supporters and cooperating in addressing critical issues to the game at this time. At the close of business I asked my fellow CSM reps if they'd be happy to see me continue as Chair till the end of the first session of the CSM and got their full support.
So thats the deal really. Anybody who didn't like the way I've handled the chair position this time around is welcome to stand at the next CSM in the winter and who knows, get the support, promote your message, appeal to the voters and get elected and you'll get a chance to show us all how its done.
Until then lets get back to business.
Wrong, this is not democracy.. this is more of a Republic...
Democracy is, Votes by the people for the people ( not selected few making the votes..)
Republic is, Votes by selected people of the people
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Nitalya
Amarr
Das Reich.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 18:35:00 -
[575]
i vote to remove jade from his/her spot on CSM
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Lord Frost
Minmatar
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.02 18:42:00 -
[576]
I vote to remove Jade.
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:06:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Nitalya
i vote to remove jade from his/her spot on CSM
You forgot to check the box.
Just sayin'.
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Drykor
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:24:00 -
[578]
Vote against removing Jade, just to balance out the id... people that are personally insulted for a wardec and don't even understand what this thread is about.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:39:00 -
[579]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/07/2008 19:41:41
I predict that in November (when I step down from CSM chair at the time of the next election) this thread will have 900 supports and I suspect I could run perma-run my nano-cerb's mwd on power derived from the emo tears expressed by the posters here 
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
BillyBong2
Amarr
Imperativa
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:07:00 -
[580]
If I could vote against the idea I would, but I am typing it out here.
I am voting against the removal of Jade.
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Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:38:00 -
[581]
Originally by: Tecam Hund
No support.
I mean no offense to CSM representatives, but judging from the chat logs it is my opinion that without Jade CSM would stall on take off.
This or go down the drain.
Thumbs down.
Yawn.
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Ayrianna Nagaya
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:06:00 -
[582]
I vote for the removal of Jade.
The recent exploits by SF to try to crap all over FW and deccing only certain Militia corps tells me he is not a good representative of the community.
His arguments are drivel of words as he tries to confuse you with obscure terms that have no relevance to the discussion.
He doesn't listen to anyone that has an opposing view. He just dismisses them as everyone else is wrong and he is righteous and right.
This is unacceptable.
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Dianabolic
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:07:00 -
[583]
In a position such as Chair of a comittee you can hardly please everybody even some of the time.
So, if everybody hates you I'd wager you're doing as good a job as can be expected.
As a result I LOL at this thread, especially as the person who brought it up isn't even on the CSM, the members of which should surely feel far more aggrieved and, if they truely DO believe that changing the chair is the right course of action, are pretty remiss in their failure to do so without prompting from the forums.
Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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Massao
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:09:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Ayrianna Na***a
He doesn't listen to anyone that has an opposing view. He just dismisses them as everyone else is wrong and he is righteous and right.
In my experience Jade does two things:
1 - Talks / types alot.
2 - Listens and debates based on the facts as presented.
But thank god SOMEONE has an opinion, hell, where would we be without people who were righteous?
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:24:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Ayrianna Na***a
I vote for the removal of Jade.
The recent exploits by SF to try to crap all over FW and deccing only certain Militia corps tells me he is not a good representative of the community.
Some facts to rain on your parade:
a) you are the kind of person to scream "exploit" (on an alt) when you've been wardecced by another participant in an open pvp game.
Quote:
His arguments are drivel of words as he tries to confuse you with obscure terms that have no relevance to the discussion.
b) you are the kind of person that never responds to an argument with logic and merely twists and turns and makes insults of your own.
Quote:
He doesn't listen to anyone that has an opposing view. He just dismisses them as everyone else is wrong and he is righteous and right.
c) you are the kind of person that gets upset when I don't afford you the status of other posters that register opinions with their main accounts and keep their temper under control in the course of debates.
Quote:
This is unacceptable.
No "ayrianna na***a" YOU are unacceptable and your arguments are poor. Feel free to a) cry me a river and b) vote for somebody else in the next election.
Because if I wasn't opposed by people like you I wouldn't be doing my job.
And thats the truth of it.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:26:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Dianabolic
In a position such as Chair of a comittee you can hardly please everybody even some of the time.
So, if everybody hates you I'd wager you're doing as good a job as can be expected.
As a result I LOL at this thread, especially as the person who brought it up isn't even on the CSM, the members of which should surely feel far more aggrieved and, if they truely DO believe that changing the chair is the right course of action, are pretty remiss in their failure to do so without prompting from the forums.
True words there Dianabolic. I was always going to annoy some people with a pro small unit pvp agenda in these elections 
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Kame Malice
Minmatar
Mitsukashi Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:33:00 -
[587]
Jade = George
Constantine = Bush
Do the math. be smarter than the US, impeach him now.
This is a signature, not some random addition to my reply. |
ThePaper
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Posted - 2008.07.03 03:59:00 -
[588]
u have my vote :)
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XoPhyte
Gallente
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.03 04:23:00 -
[589]
Edited by: XoPhyte on 03/07/2008 04:26:21
I can't believe we are all reading the same thing...
[ 2008.06.08 18:30:27 ] Jade Constantine > 1st is issue is = can a candidate walk back in a meeting in process that has empowered an alternate and immediately dislodges the alternate and regains his position?
[ 2008.06.08 18:30:40 ]Hardin > great phrasing their Jade
[ 2008.06.08 18:30:43 ] Darius JOHNSON > That's a misleading way of framing it
[ 2008.06.08 18:30:47 ] Inanna Zuni > Issue of proxies is not on the table
[ 2008.06.08 18:30:51 ] Jade Constantine > rephrase it please Hardin
[ 2008.06.08 18:30:59 ] Jade Constantine > and we'll vote on your phrasing
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:02 ] Jade Constantine > go
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:11 ] Inanna Zuni > Yes, biased statement there by Chair ..
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:29 ] Hardin > 1st issue is can the elected candidate return to a meeting and regain voting rights when the debate moves on to the next item on the agenda
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:46 ] Serenity Steele > I vote NO.
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:49 ] Bane Glorious > aye
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:51 ] Jade Constantine > I vote no
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:52 ] Ankhesentapemkah > Nay.
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:56 ] Hardin > Aye
[ 2008.06.08 18:31:57 ] Darius JOHNSON > yes
[ 2008.06.08 18:32:02 ] Inanna Zuni > Aye
[ 2008.06.08 18:32:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > vote against (at least until the issue of alternate terms has been solved)
[ 2008.06.08 18:32:07 ] LaVista Vista > Aye
[ 2008.06.08 18:32:16 ] Jade Constantine > okay its carried
[ 2008.06.08 18:32:30 ] Hardin > Thank you
[ 2008.06.08 18:33:05 ] Jade Constantine > alternates can be removed from CSM rep voting status at any time by a candidate arriving at the meeting
[ 2008.06.08 18:33:08 ] Jade Constantine > next part
[ 2008.06.08 18:33:15 ] Ankhesentapemkah > Nay
[ 2008.06.08 18:33:16 ] Inanna Zuni > Jade!
[ 2008.06.08 18:33:22 ] Inanna Zuni > please do not editorialize a decision
So let me get this straight..
1) An issue if a member can return and replace his alternate comes to vote.
2) Darius and Inanna don't like the "wording" of the statement.
3) Jade asks Hardin to rephrase it.
4) Hardin rephrases it in a straight forward sensible manner.
5) They vote that a member CAN come back and regain voting rights.
6) Jade says that the vote passes, and those members CAN come back and regain voting rights.
7) Inanna asks to Jade not "editorialize" the vote.
8) Some back and forth conversation goes on and Inanna gets a temporary ban.
Now I agree that the ban is a bit excessive imho, and not something that I would have done myself. But honestly we are arguing about the wording of a vote. I would prefer less drama from the CSM members over something as stupid as the wording of this fairly unimportant vote. LetĘs focus on the important things, improving the overall game, making the experience for all players better as a whole, and give up the ridiculous back and forth that has commenced over the last couple of weeks regarding the wording of a vote.
It's the chairs job to insure that meetings move forward in a timely manner and that all issues are addressed. While you may not like the wording of a particular sentence I would ask that you grow up, get over it and vote on the issue. We don't care about the minutes of every meeting, but we do care about the end result and the votes on the issues. Spending time going over the ridiculousness of a few words is a waste of everyones time and defeats the overall goal of the comitte, and also detracts from where we want the CSM's attention to be focused, on the important issues. There are plenty of real issues to argue about, take your pick, but leave the drama over "wording" behind please.
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Steel Tigeress
Steel-Wolfs
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Posted - 2008.07.03 05:53:00 -
[590]
I disagree with Jade in the large debate in the the general forums concerning FW, and think he, and Star Fraction are just promoting their own agenda... And not whats best for the game in general.
Just because somthing is within the rules, does not always meen its within the games best interests. Heck the CSMs were elected to fix problems that are in the game, not exploit the loopholes for their own enjoyment....
For a verry basic Cliffnotes:
Jand and Friends: There is no problem war deccing corps that are members of factional warfare, its an allowed mechanic.
Best argument against: Its unfair currently because FW_CorpA being war decced byr Reg_CorpB cannot enter the space of the opposing faction, giving Reg_CorpB a safe haven from the war. While Reg_CorpB can travel anywhere because they did not sign up for FW.
Jade fails to see the Imbalance and has tried shouting down anyone who opposes, just like in this thread. And in case anyone is wondering why... Because Jades alliance Star Fraction is the alliance that is war deccing bits and pieces of the Caldari Militia.
I support removing Jade as chairman, And no I'm no goon, I generally find their tactics deplorable and sometimes even low... but much as I hate to admit it I agree with them whole heartedly here. Check corp history, myself and my Other account Steel-W0LF (with a zero) have been in most of the anti goon alliances.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=809992&page=3#88 linked to where Jade first posted.
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.03 07:24:00 -
[591]
Originally by: EliteSlave
Wrong, this is not democracy.. this is more of a Republic...
Democracy is, Votes by the people for the people ( not selected few making the votes..)
Republic is, Votes by selected people of the people
Wrong, a republic is a country where the ruler/head of state/leader isn't a hereditary monarch. It doesn't need to be a democracy, it can be a oligarchy, like Chartage, but is generally ruled by a portion of the people.
Norway, f.eks. is a Constitutional Monarchy, so the King is the Head of State, but there is government and parliment chosen by the people that rules for the king, or something like that.
Democracy, meaning "peoples rule" come in different flavours.
Direct Democracy: The people vote for all the cases concerning the entity they live in. So if a new tax on cars would be up for vote, all the Joes and Sallys would vote yay or nay.
Representative Democracy: The people vote for representatives to vote for them on cases concerning the governing of their nation/state/country.
If the CSM thing was a direct democracy, then we would be voting on the issues, not the CSM delegates. This is however a representative democracy... who knows why, but it is.
we are recruiting!
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Meau
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Posted - 2008.07.03 09:20:00 -
[592]
Edited by: Meau on 03/07/2008 09:20:55
Originally by: XoPhyte
Now I agree that the ban is a bit excessive imho, and not something that I would have done myself. But honestly we are arguing about the wording of a vote. I would prefer less drama from the CSM members over something as stupid as the wording of this fairly unimportant vote. ...
And lets not forget there was no ban issued. Just a temporary mute:
Quote:
[ 2008.06.08 21:36:57 ] EVE System > Inanna Zuni was muted by Jade Constantine., Effective until 2008.06.08 22:06:57, Reason: "till the vote".
Second line, where Jade probably tried to unmute something could have gone wrong, though:
Quote:
[ 2008.06.08 21:40:29 ] EVE System > Inanna Zuni was muted by Jade Constantine., Effective until 2008.06.08 21:10:28.
See the timestamps. Could be an unmute, than the message is weird/bugged, could be an outright bug.
When Inanna was complaining she is blocked:
Quote:
[ 2008.06.08 21:47:27 ] Dierdra Vaal > she isnt on the blocked list
[ 2008.06.08 21:47:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > not on the muted list either
Looks like a very primitive attempt to trigger some drama and throw a Tantrum by Inanna imho.
Inanna: "Oh, i was being muted (starts crying loud and throwing toys around)".
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Arlenna Molatov
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.07.03 09:24:00 -
[593]
FW thread
This is one of the major reasons I wuld vote JAde off the CSM. She is trying to use every excuse in the book to allow his alliance to declar war on FW corps who have signed up with the Caldari Militia.
I won't go into all the detail here since its a long, complicated issue. But when it all comes down to balance, it is CLEAR to see that Jade and SF are taking advantage of loopholes in the FW design and are able to declare war with NO drawbacks for them what-so-ever.
I would encourage anyone who hasnt, if they care about game balance, to read it and draw their own conclusions.
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Meau
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Posted - 2008.07.03 09:32:00 -
[594]
Edited by: Meau on 03/07/2008 09:36:58
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
FW thread
This is one of the major reasons I wuld vote JAde off the CSM. She is trying to use every excuse in the book to allow his alliance to declar war on FW corps who have signed up with the Caldari Militia.
I won't go into all the detail here since its a long, complicated issue. But when it all comes down to balance, it is CLEAR to see that Jade and SF are taking advantage of loopholes in the FW design and are able to declare war with NO drawbacks for them what-so-ever.
I would encourage anyone who hasnt, if they care about game balance, to read it and draw their own conclusions.
Oh my, all that drama, without even needing to get into the issue, you call that a loophole:
Exert from the Faction Warfare player guide:
Quote:
Enlisted player corporations:
* Can participate in player alliance/corporation wars, whether it is declared by a corporation in the same, allied or opposing faction.
plus
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
2) Yes. They are still normal player corps. They are not technically joining an alliance, and dont gain the "protection" that being in an alliance gives you. You will have to pay normal wardec costs etc though.
Maybe you should look up the definition of a loophole. This is clearly an intended game mechanic, and one of the rules introduced by CCP, thus calling it a loophole is a tad weird, isnt it?
The drawbacks are the usual ones for declaring war, and this is apparantly how CCP intended it to be at the moment.
Still wanting to shout exploit or any of its synonyms?
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:00:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 03/07/2008 10:04:42
Edited by: Arlenna Molatov on 03/07/2008 10:03:40
The real issue in that thread, had you bothered to read it is te lack of ability to engage anyone shooting other militia members. All other militia members can do is sit there and watch. Geeze, that sounds like its balanced, doesn;t it.
I could give a bloody damn what you think to be quite honest....I care about the people actually doing FW and consider it a very large game imbalance. I dont care bout you, so you can go back to your hole now. You're dismissed.
PS- you want any recognition, then post with you main. If not, stfu.
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Monsieur Escargots
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:05:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Meau
Maybe you should look up the definition of a loophole. Wardecing FW corps is clearly an intended game mechanic, and one of the rules introduced by CCP, thus calling it a loophole is a tad weird, isnt it?
The drawbacks are the usual ones for declaring war, and this is apparantly how CCP intended it to be at the moment.
Still wanting to shout exploit or any of its synonyms?
So by your estimation, the recent "game mechanic" that allowed Ivy League to become basically immune to any war dec is also how CCP intended it to be?
Don't be so naive. In a game this complex, there are many loopholes that can be exploited to make the game more beneficial for yourself.
In this case, a corp/ alliance who can make a war dec and have an entire area of space where they are immune from reprisals is clearly not an intended use of the war dec mechanic. |
Hubrub
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:00:00 -
[597]
Wow, talk about Ego.
Jade has to go.
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Damion Zyne
Des Esseintes Social Club
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:14:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov
FW thread
This is one of the major reasons I wuld vote JAde off the CSM. She is trying to use every excuse in the book to allow his alliance to declar war on FW corps who have signed up with the Caldari Militia.
I won't go into all the detail here since its a long, complicated issue. But when it all comes down to balance, it is CLEAR to see that Jade and SF are taking advantage of loopholes in the FW design and are able to declare war with NO drawbacks for them what-so-ever.
I would encourage anyone who hasnt, if they care about game balance, to read it and draw their own conclusions.
I just cant see what ingame action, that is perfectly within the rules of the game, has anything to do with chairing the CSM. Forcing him, which is extremly unlikely to happen, out of the CSM wont change his action / views ingame at all. So what about you go elsewhere with your "exploit" fake drame.
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Roger Welco
Caldari
WhiteGlaze Interstellar Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.03 12:43:00 -
[599]
wow this is cool. After reading though 'most' of this post I can see that CCP idea of a player committee has worked a treat.. you all acting like real life committee members/politicians!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.03 13:49:00 -
[600]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/07/2008 13:53:57
The irony is that while the CSM members themselves have met, had a damned successful face to face meeting that ended in a very positive NYT article that got us praised as approaching the business in a professional and diligent manner. This thread still keeps on sucking in a collection of bottom-feeders trying to make some kind of mileage on their personal vendettas and angst.
This Caldari FW thing is a case in point. Having discussed the issue on the thread in question and challenged the Caldari FW members to post an ISSUE thread with their proposed solutions only one actually did that "nVChicky". The rest (including the worst of the people posting immediately above) decided that their arguments were too weak to actually make a proposal and they preferred to keep whining and making false "exploit" accusations in the face of clearly presented evidence to the contrary.
I said in the other thread and I'll say it here. I consider it a personal triumph that people who hate non-consensual pvp and loathe very notion of the empire war-dec mechanic want me removed from the CSM. It validates the manifesto I stood for, it emboldens the vision I have for the game and it convinces me it was right to stand and serve on this committee just to confront and neutralize the kind of whiny poltroon's who would make Eve into an instanced WOW arena game if they got their way.
I dine out on the emo tears of those posters above me crying about how membership of the Caldari Militia hasn't protected them from empire wardecs. I laugh at their weakness and cowardly lack of backbone and its my pleasure to blow up their ships in-game. I ran for CSM on an election platform of pro-pvp opportunity and dynamism and it would be the height of hypocrisy for me not to be a fan of small unit pvp in game.
Eve as dark universe and its a hard environment for people used to 100% safety and instanced pvp in controlled environments. But thats the soul of Eve, the beauty and the allure of the game is in player vs player strife and consequence for actions and the day that corporations can make themselves totally safe in empire from wardecs is the day this game begins to die. I stand utterly opposed to the notion that Arlenna Molatov, Steel Tigeress, Ayrianna Na***a, Nitalya and Lord Frost can declare their corporations for a Militia and will no longer have to be vulnerable to the corporation wardec mechanic. I am utterly opposed to the notion that anybody wardeccing them will be faced by faction npc response, and I am utterly opposed to the principle that carping whines and mewling complaints on the forums will get these people more safety for their in-game corporations.
Hard words? People might condemn me for standing on the CSM and having strong opinions. But thats ridiculous. I got elected because of strong opinions and its my responsible to keep on expressing them and ensuring that the people who read my election manifesto and trusted me to promote the kind of Eve Online I described there has a place in the future we are helping to build.
So Caldari Militia. How about facing up to your real ISSUEs and learning how to deal with wardecs with spaceships in space and small unit pvp? You have an opportunity to play this game now. You joined a thing called Faction Warfare and its time for you to prove that you know what the second word actually means. Enough of this ridiculous forum whining and more action in space. If you do have an actual assembly hall issue you want to express be my guest - make a thread, lets see how the debate goes. But if you decide instead to keep on whinging and trying to personalize the issue of game mechanics that are working exactly as they were intended then you are going to work a minor miracle and reduce your reputation even further.
This CSM forum is not a self-help group for butthurt wannabe pvp pretenders who go crying to their mothers when the first time a hostile wardec comes in.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
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