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Talkuth Rel
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:02:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Romale Edited by: Romale on 12/06/2008 00:11:54 Edited by: Romale on 12/06/2008 00:08:43 if someone was banned for anything out of game, that wasn't illegal, that doesn't involve time codes, yes it should be reviewed, there is no pandora's box there
edit: basicaly what im saying is you dont know its opening pandora's box, id ont know of anyone else ever who has been banned for something out of game that didn't invovle time codes, EVEN IF THERE IS more then him, we dont know that, you should error on the side of protecting the playerbase then error on the side of ccp is right because kugu proved already they arnt' always right edit2: the whole reason the council was created was to prevent abuse from ccp employee's on the game, to me that should include looking into kugu getting banned because from my point of view thats exactly what it is
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the council. The council is there to review game-related issues brought up by the players and determine which are worthy of CCP's attention. As has been pointed out by those on both sides of the argument, this is not a game-related issue, everything about it happened outside of the game, and it in no way affects the functioning of the game. This is a customer service issue. If Kugu has a problem with it, he needs to work through the channels of customer service. If people feel strongly enough about it to support him, they should write letters to CCP's customer service department stating that support. This should not be brought to a player council designed for reviewing game-related issues.
It most definetely is "opening Pandora's Box," as you are asking the CSM to consider the case of an individual player and grant preferential treatment based on the popularity of the individual's case. It is opening the door to potential corruption of the CSM through favoring individuals, it is setting a precedent of favoritism to the popular and well-known, and it is involving the CSM in issues beyond the scope of where they should be focusing their time.
As I said before, if the CSM wants to push CCP to develop a review process available to all banned players, that may still be stretching their jurisdiction, but I could find acceptable. The CSM should definetely not start looking at individual cases, it's not their place, and in the end it's not within their power to do anything about it. The CSM exists to suggest ideas to CCP about how to improve their game, not to tell them how to run their business. |
nomlasmit
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:53:00 -
[152]
I believe that a clearer banning process and implementation should be looked at along with appeals... |
Talkuth Rel
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:26:00 -
[153]
Originally by: nomlasmit I believe that a clearer banning process and implementation should be looked at along with appeals...
I wouldn't disagree there, but that is not what you are supporting by giving this thread a thumbs up. |
Siona Windweaver
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:42:00 -
[154]
Supported. |
Kage Toshimado
Kage Clan
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:55:00 -
[155]
Unban the guy. He's a genuine EVE martyr as far as I am concerned. |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:02:00 -
[156]
This is actually what the CSM was created for. This incident should certainly be reviewed, as its the big things that was the cause for CSM to be started. The members of the CSM should look at CCP's actions here and see if they were reasonable. |
Faekurias
Black Legion Command Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 18:19:00 -
[157]
Supporting because I think the whole business was shady.
Supreme Legion Commander of the Black Legion Fleet We're recruiting. Hitmeup ingame. |
Romale
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:51:00 -
[158]
The whole purpose of the CSM is oversight, thats why the idea came up, i dunno what you think it is but it was created in response to dev's playing the game and cheating while they doing it, that oversight should include dealing with the emo reaction that was banning kugu plane a simple as its directly involved with the reason the CSM was created, and the only unresolved issue involving the incident still out there |
Euriti
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.06.13 07:17:00 -
[159]
Bump again.
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Hortoken Wolfbrother
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:11:00 -
[160]
Supported
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SunglassesInSpace
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 12:28:00 -
[161]
Free kugs |
Kitoba
Legion of Dynamic Discord
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Posted - 2008.06.13 14:16:00 -
[162]
Aye force CCP to resolve this. |
alpha charlie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 01:15:00 -
[163]
Supporting this.
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Ancorehraq sis
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.06.14 03:43:00 -
[164]
Supporting for the lulz
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:29:00 -
[165]
I support the unban of this guy. He helped in improvment of the QoS of this game in a sence. Truth was revealed. In real life the law punishes who reveals personal data UNLESS this serves the common good. I think in the case of Kugutsumen we have the perfect example of the above. |
VCBee 883
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Posted - 2008.06.14 04:36:00 -
[166]
It's a request to review, not to unban; ++1
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Athar Mu
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.14 10:26:00 -
[167]
OK...what the hell? I hope that Kugutsumen is never allowed to play this game again. As for what I have read I get the impression that all he was doing is griefing players, whether they are GM's or not it doesn't matter.
I say F*** him and F*** this thread!
NOT SUPPORTED!
If you are so against CCP and this game don't play it and go else where, where the DEV's and GM's are angels and hand you the game on the plate.
Oh and the CSM does not have any right or should have the powers to get ban's lifted and if they ever do I will campaign for the CSM to be removed, because they are players with their own interests, they are not impartial!
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Athar Mu
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.14 10:39:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Zaran Darkstar I support the unban of this guy. He helped in improvment of the QoS of this game in a sence. Truth was revealed. In real life the law punishes who reveals personal data UNLESS this serves the common good. I think in the case of Kugutsumen we have the perfect example of the above.
So outing GM's who do nothing wrong and spoiling the game for them because he wants to be unbanned is for the common good how? I agree that if someone is doing something wrong they should be brought to the attention of the law. However, the player base is not the law they are the rabble, the great unclean, the law is CCP.
Comparison to real life (because you did): You suspect that someone is a kiddie fiddler but don't have absolute proof, would you go to the police or would you go to the Sun Newspaper (any form of media outlet) with a picture of the bloke and say that he is a naughty man and that he should be strung up?
If the person is and you go to the police then he gets arrested and tried by the law, however if go to the newspaper first you could damage the the case and it could mean that he gets off because of a technicality. If the person isn't and you go to the police, the matter gets investigated and the charges dropped thats all good, however if you go to the newspaper with this then and you ruin this guys life because after investigation it turns out he has done nothing wrong. What have you done? You have ruined an innocent mans life (that sort of stuff never comes off) and also screwed yourself over because he can now sue you for damages.
Oh and serving the 'common good' can only be seen in hindsight. As what one person thinks is serving the 'common good' may not actually be serving the 'common good' but actually just serving their own good.
And finally its CCP's game and we pay to play it, there are no laws/rules to say that they have to let anyone play it because WE say so.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.14 11:01:00 -
[169]
The last thing eve needs is more emo tinfoilhattery. Not supported.
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2008.06.14 12:42:00 -
[170]
Every time I got to some outside forum where players discuss MMO games in general if someone wants to **** on EVE they bring up the whole T20 scandal and say how T20 was never fired but CCP banned the player who discovered that he abused his GM powers and spawned BPOs for himself for no good reason. So there, they state, the game is rigged and there is no reason to start playing EVE.
So either un-ban the guy.
OR
Give a good reason for him being banned because I'm getting tired of trying to defend it when someone brings up T20 thing again.
guide to game time codes |
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Poison Punch
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Posted - 2008.06.14 13:47:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Poison Punch on 14/06/2008 13:47:14
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
My point is that it cannot be treated as a individual case and the whole banning/appeal structure must be looked at if that is what ppl wish or it is not a fair system as popularity or lack thereof is not a just reason to ban or unban somebody.
This case is very different from other cases however, as Kugu did not break any in-game or EULA rules.
edit:spelling
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Elise Vectra
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Posted - 2008.06.14 13:48:00 -
[172]
Supported, I've never been happy with this.
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Romale
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 14:57:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Athar Mu
Originally by: Zaran Darkstar I support the unban of this guy. He helped in improvment of the QoS of this game in a sence. Truth was revealed. In real life the law punishes who reveals personal data UNLESS this serves the common good. I think in the case of Kugutsumen we have the perfect example of the above.
So outing GM's who do nothing wrong and spoiling the game for them because he wants to be unbanned is for the common good how? I agree that if someone is doing something wrong they should be brought to the attention of the law. However, the player base is not the law they are the rabble, the great unclean, the law is CCP.
Comparison to real life (because you did): You suspect that someone is a kiddie fiddler but don't have absolute proof, would you go to the police or would you go to the Sun Newspaper (any form of media outlet) with a picture of the bloke and say that he is a naughty man and that he should be strung up?
If the person is and you go to the police then he gets arrested and tried by the law, however if go to the newspaper first you could damage the the case and it could mean that he gets off because of a technicality. If the person isn't and you go to the police, the matter gets investigated and the charges dropped thats all good, however if you go to the newspaper with this then and you ruin this guys life because after investigation it turns out he has done nothing wrong. What have you done? You have ruined an innocent mans life (that sort of stuff never comes off) and also screwed yourself over because he can now sue you for damages.
Oh and serving the 'common good' can only be seen in hindsight. As what one person thinks is serving the 'common good' may not actually be serving the 'common good' but actually just serving their own good.
And finally its CCP's game and we pay to play it, there are no laws/rules to say that they have to let anyone play it because WE say so.
hi thats not why he was banned, thnx have a nice day
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 15:08:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 14/06/2008 15:12:42 Why was he banned then? _______________________________ Join the biggest Minmatar Corp! www.BrutorTribe.com
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Romale
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 15:18:00 -
[175]
im not going into detail because last folks i know who did could no longer post on the forums, that being said he cought a gm creating t2 bpo's and them being used in game, hense the whole coalition thing?, this was before invention mind you, he did uncover another gm's acount later after he was banned, i wont go into details on that either, if you want to read him goto kugu's websight you can find it in google all the stuff is there. at no point did he break any ccp rules doing it either, they banned him for a general eula section of basically costing ccp money
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.14 15:49:00 -
[176]
Can CCP point us to some thread where the official reason this guy was banned is explained? Not generic explanations like "He violated the EULA" but in specific what was the exact rule of EULA he violated? |
Romale
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.14 15:52:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Can CCP point us to some thread where the official reason this guy was banned is explained? Not generic explanations like "He violated the EULA" but in specific what was the exact rule of EULA he violated?
hahaha thats funny man ^ ^, you wont find that on these forums, he posted a copy of the banning on the sight if i remember right
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Torshin
InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.06.14 18:05:00 -
[178]
I believe the exact reasoning comes down to CCP banned Kug for creating additional work load for CCP employees. What this is referring to is the manner in which he revealed the T20 information and the threadnought and disabling of the forums that followed this information being public.
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Kyrjanen Janen
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Posted - 2008.06.14 20:00:00 -
[179]
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Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2008.06.15 04:12:00 -
[180]
I miss Enslaver, so for that, Kug should rot in banned hell.
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