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Naiya Marr
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:39:00 -
[1]
I am PVP oriented char (Minmatar) and missions are currently my main income of ISK.
At the moment I am doing level 2 and 3 missions and a lot of times I have to warp out and recharge shields & armor because my skills are low and I use rather bad equipment on my ships at the moment. Looking into a future a bit and level 4 mission got me thinking of cross-training Caldari for Raven. I only hear good things about it.
So yea, is it worth training for it? Is it really that much better or should I just go with one of the Minmatar BS? I could train for Raven in like 7 days, also I got about 50k skill points in missiles . As for Minmatar BS I could train for them in 4 days.
I don't mind the extra few day of training for Raven but only if it makes a noticeable difference in mission running speed and efficiency.
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FT Diomedes
Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:25:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Naiya Marr I am PVP oriented char (Minmatar) and missions are currently my main income of ISK.
At the moment I am doing level 2 and 3 missions and a lot of times I have to warp out and recharge shields & armor because my skills are low and I use rather bad equipment on my ships at the moment. Looking into a future a bit and level 4 mission got me thinking of cross-training Caldari for Raven. I only hear good things about it.
So yea, is it worth training for it? Is it really that much better or should I just go with one of the Minmatar BS? I could train for Raven in like 7 days, also I got about 50k skill points in missiles . As for Minmatar BS I could train for them in 4 days.
I don't mind the extra few day of training for Raven but only if it makes a noticeable difference in mission running speed and efficiency.
The Minmatar battleships are very SP intensive, but they can do the job just fine if you have the SP. My Typhoons will be good when I get a few million more SP (I have about 21 on my Minmatar character). The thing is, to use Minmatar ships properly requires you to have good missile skills and shield tanking skills, so it's not that hard to add in the training for a Raven as well. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.06.10 21:21:00 -
[3]
Unless your minmatar battleship skills are *very* good (As in, fully T2 hardware on the verge of Marauder), for the love of god, get the raven. It'll take less than a week to fly it decently well.
Prioritize training a T2 XL Shield Booster & T2 Power Diagnostics if you don't already have them. Also T2 shield hardeners are helpful. If you don't have good missile skills, Caldari Navy Cruise Launchers make a very good crutch if you're willing to shell out some money. ---
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SellYourPoppa
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Posted - 2008.06.12 07:27:00 -
[4]
Edited by: SellYourPoppa on 12/06/2008 07:28:42 If level 2&3's are your main source of income the price of the raven might be a bit steep, let alone the fitting for it (let alone faction fitting...). + the risk of losing that unskilled raven on level 4's is great witch at this stage would mean bankruptcy ...
My advice is take it slow ... Stick with your minmatarr boats, build your tank (bee it shield or armour) ...
Is true that an unskilled Raven can barely squeeze trough most lvl 4's but if you want performance you need to put a lot of isk's on fitting it.
Minmatarr can mission just fine. You just need to get better acquainted with your ships strengths and weaknesses ...
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Jethro Amar
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:53:00 -
[5]
artillery cyclone or hurricane are good enough for lvl 3 missions. Training for Raven takes less than a week (frig IV, cruiser IV) if you have any missile skills. I was ok doing lvl4 missions on caldari BS III, rapid fire III, cruise missiles III without t2 hardeners (t2 ballistics and drones only). Not all missions, but great majority of them. No near deaths. The most important thing is to know the missions. Set eve-survival.org as your home page and always check for recommended hardeners and damage type. The reason raven is so good is it's missiles damage output. Sometimes you start mission with few ships right on top of you and few others 100km away. Neither artillery nor autocannons are good for this, but cruise missile do the job. Check battleclinic.com for fitting. Also - raven is not that expensive when lost, as insurance pays for the hull. What you lose is approx 30-35M for arbalest launchers and 45M for ccc rigs, the rest is cheap. If you like flying minmatar ships all the training done for raven will be well used later on. Shield skills, missile skills are required for many min ships. |
Sanzorz
EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:04:00 -
[6]
I'd stick to the Mimnatar ships. Even if they require more skill points, then I find guns to be alot faster or better in most cases, as I hate defenders from rats in lvl 4 missions. I really feel it's a downgrade going to missiles when you're used to guns. |
Emily Spankratchet
Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Emily Spankratchet on 12/06/2008 09:45:11 I used to run level 4 missions in Minmatar BS. It was fun, and I had to keep my eye on things to make sure it didn't go pear-shaped. It also required a lot of skills to do well.
These days, I run missions occasionally for ISK. I cross-trained for a Raven. The first time I flew a level 4 in it, I was amazed at how easy it was compared to Minmatar ships. It's not quite on a par with the drake for level 3s in terms of "go away and make a cup of tea" easy, but it definitely requires much less in the way of concentration.
Edit: Having said that, you'll be quite slow until you train up your missile skills. You'll also need drones for smaller ships (especially before you've got the secondary missile skills that increase damage on small targets). |
marie blueprint
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:04:00 -
[8]
yes
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King Rothgar
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:56:00 -
[9]
My advise is to train for a maelstrom. In my opinion, it is far superior to the raven for lvl4 missions and doesn't require a whole lot of SP. Currently, I have large projectile 3, cruise missle 3 and both minmatar and caldari BS 3. Assuming T1 everything on both ships, I do far better with the maelstrom. The raven is easier in that cruise missles basically never miss regardless of range, the problem is defender missles. Thanks to defenders, a low skilled raven (and maybe even a high skilled one) will lose around half it's dps just from missle shoot downs. This can be corrected by getting very close but many enemy BS's won't let you do that. Turrets do not have this problem. I cross trained from minmatar to caldari to get a raven and though it did the job, its low dps made it very slow. When I switched to the maelstrom with 8 1200mm scout arty, it became very easy. Artillery does have serious tracking issues, it's basically impossible to hit anything smaller than a cruiser and even those are near impossible unless they are flying straight at or away from you. But that's where drones come in, with drones 5 and drone interfacing 2 (6-7 days of training from drones 3), medium scout drones can reasonably quickly destroy anything smaller than a BC. Thus tracking isn't an issue so long as you have drones. I recently trained webbing drones and that was well worth the few hours it took. The maelstrom ontop of having vastly superior dps, also has a much better tank thanks to it's shield boost bonus.
I think both ships are decent but the maelstrom is the clear winner. On a side note, whatever you do don't get a tempest or a typhoon, both those ships suck undead donkey balls for missioning unless you have an absurd amount of SP. For those who are curious, my maelstrom is armed with 8x1200mm scout artillery, 1 XL named shield booster, 1 T1 boost amp, 3 active specific shield hardeners, 1 large cap booster launcher, 2 tracking programs and 3 gyro's. For drones I use 5 optimal damage type mediums and 2 berserker webbers. Rigs are 3 cap rechargers. I almost never use the cap boosters on lvl4's but if I'm really getting hammered it's nice to have since the XL booster eats all my cap if run continuously for a minute or two.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.12 17:05:00 -
[10]
If you are having to warp out of level 2/3 missions 7 days of raven training isn't going to let you do level 4s |
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Harum Skarum
Committee for Subversive Decoration
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:30:00 -
[11]
Seriously, dont bother with Minmatar BS for missions. Yes, you can run everything in a Maelstrom, Phoon and even Tempest. But a Raven or Nighthawk will get you more way more isk/hour for a minimal SP investment if you are looking for speed, if you just want to run missions semi afk get a domi. |
Faekurias
Black Legion Command Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:33:00 -
[12]
Seconding notion of Nighthawk. |
Doc Imp
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Posted - 2008.06.13 01:53:00 -
[13]
I worked my way up to minmatar bs mission running for starters and I wish I'd trained for the raven first. Minnie bs can run any level 4 but you lose out in terms of how effective/fast you are by a large amount on most missions. Biggest problem is the need to keep range and the fact that your wrecks end up scattered all over and salvage takes a lot longer. Also the drake is an excellent stepping stone which will help you blow through level 2/3's with ease. You can train into an effective cruise raven pilot in a far shorter time than it takes to get good with large turrets and a cruise will ALWAYS hit. And when you want to go pvp the shield skills/drone skills you trained to fly that raven will be handy in a number of min ships. I love a maelstrom but for a purely quicker/max income perspective raven wins. You have variable damage type, a strong shield tank, solid damage that is reliable at any range.
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Kopac Emi
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:41:00 -
[14]
With Minmatar battleship V you can get as much as 484 dps no need to train caldari bs a lv4 mission takes like 15-35 min for me and if u using a high lv4 agent u can get 25-40m isk in 3 hours of gameplay and i didnt count salvaging *hint* [Maelstrom, New Setup 1 copy 1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Capacitor Flux Coil II
Large Shield Booster II Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier Crystallization I Non-Inertial Ballistic Screen Augmentation I Non-Inertial Ballistic Screen Augmentation I Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier Crystallization I Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L 1400mm Carbine Howitzer I, Titanium Sabot L
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Vespa II x1 Vespa II x1 Vespa II x1 Vespa II x1 Vespa II x1
This setup is against Guristas pirates and has a reinforced defense efficiency of 664 that means u can tank any Lv4 misson without any warping
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Qorvu
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Posted - 2008.06.13 07:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Naiya Marr So yea, is it worth training for it? Is it really that much better or should I just go with one of the Minmatar BS? I could train for Raven in like 7 days, also I got about 50k skill points in missiles .
I have approx. 2+M sp in non-learning and have just begun soloing L4. Level 3 is a joke by now.
Look at it this way - the only sp investment you need to make is caldari (frigate/cruise/BS) to 4 which is about 678K sp total. Cruise missiles, shield etc. are skills your matari pilot will need anyway.
Use http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports if in doubt.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.06.13 09:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kopac Emi With Minmatar battleship V you can get as much as 484 dps no need to train caldari bs a lv4 mission takes like 15-35 min for me and if u using a high lv4 agent u can get 25-40m isk in 3 hours of gameplay and i didnt count salvaging
I can get 680 dps in CNR (before drones) and my solo missionrunning times are from 5 to 45 min per mission. Are you actually measured those times you are posting or is it just and impression ?
As far as isk/h goes it seems reasonable or even a bit low for maelstrom. My corpmate kinda likes minny BS and tried hard to run missions in minny BS with proper skills. BS 5, approx 10 mil sp in gunnery and so on, he did somewhat better than you but after a while trained caldary BS 3 and dropped approx 500 k sp into missiles and is now using Raven for lev 4 missions most of the time. Using maelstr÷m only when he gets bored to the tears in Raven.
Competent missionrunner in Raven does approx 25 mil/h.
As far as OP question goes I would suggest training for Raven as for lev 4 missions moderately skilled Raven offers higer isk/h than highly trained minmatar BS. Unless you really really hate raven and don't really care about isk/h.
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