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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Solid Res
Haven Front
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:35:00 -
[1]
If a non FW Militia player gangs with someone who is in the Militia then are opposing Militias free to shoot the non FW Militia Player? My understanding is war rules are the same, but I know they also changed the war rules in this patch. |
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:40:00 -
[2]
From my understanding, no. They changed the mechanic for this reason. If you join a gang that is in a war (period) you are no longer a valid target for someone who is their opponent. Now whether this holds true for someone providing Logistical support or not I do not know. |
CrayC
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:40:00 -
[3]
Non-militia people cannot be shot on freely, regardless of them being in fleet with other Militia people. Normal highsec/lowsec/0.0 rules apply to them... |
Ravenal
The Fated Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:44:00 -
[4]
no more lofty \o/ |
Solid Res
Haven Front
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:52:00 -
[5]
thanks for the clarification. |
Micheal Dietrich
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:55:00 -
[6]
wait, so the lofty scam is no longer valid? If you group with a war dec'd player your not a target? And I'm speaking of regular dec's not the miitia. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich wait, so the lofty scam is no longer valid? If you group with a war dec'd player your not a target? And I'm speaking of regular dec's not the miitia.
That is correct.
Fleet Mechanics and Wars have been decoupled so if you join a gang with a player at war you cannot be attacked in High Security space. Well you can be attacked in High Security space but those attacking you will recieve a global criminal flag and sanctioned CONCORD response.
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Blancanieves
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Blancanieves on 11/06/2008 14:10:54 Being in a gang no longer has any influence on who you are allowed to attack. It has been changed because otherwise there would never be any gangs involving at the same time militia members and people that don't know each other very well. Which would contradict the purpose of the militias. [Edit]Oops someone with more clue has been faster at typing...[/Edit]
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Micheal Dietrich
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich wait, so the lofty scam is no longer valid? If you group with a war dec'd player your not a target? And I'm speaking of regular dec's not the miitia.
That is correct.
Fleet Mechanics and Wars have been decoupled so if you join a gang with a player at war you cannot be attacked in High Security space. Well you can be attacked in High Security space but those attacking you will recieve a global criminal flag and sanctioned CONCORD response.
Good news indeed thanx for the info. My friend is in a different corp and they were dec'd a few weeks back so he flew to my space and has been grouping with me on missions. |
Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ravenal no more lofty \o/
more like no more lofty :(
it was a great filter for stupid ppl |
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Rhatar Khurin
The PeacekeeperZ Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:31:00 -
[11]
What about flying around in a militia ship with a non-militia logistics ship constantly?
If the logistics reps the FW ship will it become a valid target? |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.11 14:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin What about flying around in a militia ship with a non-militia logistics ship constantly?
If the logistics reps the FW ship will it become a valid target?
Correct.
If a non Factional Warfare Militia pilot attempts any form of aggression or remote repair on a Factional Warfare Militia pilot in High security it will meet with a global criminal flag.
It would be the same as attempting to remote repair a member of Caldari Provisions or Brutor Tribe in High Security space. |
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ira Theos on 11/06/2008 15:02:54 Oh yes, It's all so clear now... thanks. I now see the FW Rules of Engagement are merely an extention of the Galactic Racial Operations Accord, modified of course by the necessities of the physical limitations of central time/space perturbations as they manifest themselves from time to time.
and they wonder why some of us wouldn't touch this turkey with surgical gloves... |
Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Navigator If a non Factional Warfare Militia pilot attempts any form of aggression or remote repair on a Factional Warfare Militia pilot in High security it will meet with a global criminal flag.
It would be the same as attempting to remote repair a member of Caldari Provisions or Brutor Tribe in High Security space.
Hold on here a second, remote repping a player in an NPC corp will give you global criminal flag?
I know that remote rep'ing NPC's can do that, but are you sure that remote rep'ing players will give you global criminal flag and therefore CONCORD response in high sec?
I thought that remote rep'ing only passed down any flags that your target carried: for example, remote rep'ing a milita member would flag you for the opposing militias and Navies, remote rep'ing a can theif would flag you to the corp he stole from, only remote rep'ing a player with GCF could give you a GCF.
So can you remote rep players in NPC corp's or will that always invoke CONCORD? |
Dominatus Crispus
Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: CCP Navigator If a non Factional Warfare Militia pilot attempts any form of aggression or remote repair on a Factional Warfare Militia pilot in High security it will meet with a global criminal flag.
It would be the same as attempting to remote repair a member of Caldari Provisions or Brutor Tribe in High Security space.
Hold on here a second, remote repping a player in an NPC corp will give you global criminal flag?
I know that remote rep'ing NPC's can do that, but are you sure that remote rep'ing players will give you global criminal flag and therefore CONCORD response in high sec?
I thought that remote rep'ing only passed down any flags that your target carried: for example, remote rep'ing a milita member would flag you for the opposing militias and Navies, remote rep'ing a can theif would flag you to the corp he stole from, only remote rep'ing a player with GCF could give you a GCF.
So can you remote rep players in NPC corp's or will that always invoke CONCORD?
yes more clarification on this would be welcomed. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dominatus Crispus
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: CCP Navigator If a non Factional Warfare Militia pilot attempts any form of aggression or remote repair on a Factional Warfare Militia pilot in High security it will meet with a global criminal flag.
It would be the same as attempting to remote repair a member of Caldari Provisions or Brutor Tribe in High Security space.
Hold on here a second, remote repping a player in an NPC corp will give you global criminal flag?
I know that remote rep'ing NPC's can do that, but are you sure that remote rep'ing players will give you global criminal flag and therefore CONCORD response in high sec?
I thought that remote rep'ing only passed down any flags that your target carried: for example, remote rep'ing a milita member would flag you for the opposing militias and Navies, remote rep'ing a can theif would flag you to the corp he stole from, only remote rep'ing a player with GCF could give you a GCF.
So can you remote rep players in NPC corp's or will that always invoke CONCORD?
yes more clarification on this would be welcomed.
Ok - I am looking into this now. A response will come shortly |
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CCP Navigator
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:36:00 -
[17]
Ok - Clarification time.
Apologies for the incorrect information.
The following should give a better idea of how flagging will work within Fleets:
Player A in State Protectorate (Caldari) Player B in Federal Defence Union (Gallente) Player C in Haven Front (Neutral Player Corporation, using the OP Corp)
Player A makes a gang with C. Player B may not shoot C!
Player C starts repairing player A Player B may not shoot player C
Player B shoots player A -> Player C will now be flagged to Player B.
Player B will not be able to shoot Player C, however, Player B can fire back if Player C makes any sort of aggression
Please put this howler down to answering 6 million threads today and not concentrating
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ira Theos on 11/06/2008 15:53:16 So if I understand you correctly.... the non-FW player can only prevaricate on his alliance interactions if interpolations allow... depending, of course, upon scanning results... except on Fridays... Right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPrm6luPmME&feature=related
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Brazero
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Riho
Originally by: Ravenal no more lofty \o/
more like no more lofty :(
it was a great filter for stupid ppl
You're still here aren't you? So the filter didn't work all that well.
Originally by: Rodj Blake CCP are planning to give Amarrians some "oomph"
Unfortunately, "oomph" is the sound one makes when kicked repeatedly in the ribs.
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Kylegar
Dawn of Fire imPure.
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Ok - Clarification time.
Apologies for the incorrect information.
The following should give a better idea of how flagging will work within Fleets:
Player A in State Protectorate (Caldari) Player B in Federal Defence Union (Gallente) Player C in Haven Front (Neutral Player Corporation, using the OP Corp)
Player A makes a gang with C. Player B may not shoot C!
Player C starts repairing player A Player B may not shoot player C
So,If I'm understanding this right, Player C can rep Player A, without Player B being able to do anything about it? --
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
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Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.11 15:55:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 11/06/2008 15:59:00
Originally by: CCP Navigator The following should give a better idea of how flagging will work within Fleets:
Player A in State Protectorate (Caldari) Player B in Federal Defence Union (Gallente) Player C in Haven Front (Neutral Player Corporation, using the OP Corp)
Player A makes a gang with C. Player B may not shoot C!
Player C starts repairing player A Player B may not shoot player C
Player B shoots player A -> Player C will now be flagged to Player B.
Player B will not be able to shoot Player C, however, Player B can fire back if Player C makes any sort of aggression
Should that last line read:
Player C will not be able to shoot Player B, however, Player C can fire back if Player B makes any sort of aggression?
It was working as I understood up to that point. However, if "Player C will now be flagged to Player B", then Player B should be able to shoot Player C.
However, that flag is not recipicated. Player C (the one doing the rep'ing) doesn't get to shoot at anyone because he is rep'ing. It is not until he is attack directly that he can shoot back.
Is that correct? Originally by: CCP Navigator Please put this howler down to answering 6 million threads today and not concentrating
No problem. We are (or atleast I am) greatful that you took the time to double check this for us. Originally by: Kylegar So,If I'm understanding this right, Player C can rep Player A, without Player B being able to do anything about it?
That is not a problem if my correction is right. The player doing the rep'ing is not flagged directly from the war/FW rules of engagement, but indirectly via the 15 minute combat flag on Player A.
If Player B wishes to engage the Player C (the one doing the rep'ing) he need only fire a single shot/E-war cycle at Player A to gain the flag towards Player C.
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Squirrrel
Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Ok - Clarification time.
Apologies for the incorrect information.
The following should give a better idea of how flagging will work within Fleets:
Player A in State Protectorate (Caldari) Player B in Federal Defence Union (Gallente) Player C in Haven Front (Neutral Player Corporation, using the OP Corp)
Player A makes a gang with C. Player B may not shoot C! (Could before EA patch, now changed. I'm with you.)
Player C starts repairing player A Player B may not shoot player C (So C can rep A and B can't do anything about it? Bit one-sided that.)
Player B shoots player A -> Player C will now be flagged to Player B. (So it only becomes a flag after aggression has taken place? OK.)
Player B will not be able to shoot Player C, however, Player B can fire back if Player C makes any sort of aggression (So C is not flagged to B then if he can't shoot?) Surely C will get Concorded if he makes aggression, since he was only flagged to B and not the other way around?
Please put this howler down to answering 6 million threads today and not concentrating
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:16:00 -
[23]
To clear this up. The only thing we have done for this patch is to decouple Fleets from Wars. That means that if you (A) neutral pl (Aayer) join a Fleet with someone (B) who is in a war with someone else(C), you will not show up as a target. So basically it works just like if it there wasn't a fleet involved.
If you(A) decide to repair your buddy(B) who is in a war with someone(C), you(A) will not show up as a war target to that someone(C), until the person(C) who is in war with your buddy(B) shoots your buddy(B). This is not anything new, that was existing game mechanics before Empyrean Age.
I suggest that people that have questions about this log on to Singularity and try them out. It is a great and quick way to find answers to your questions without any speculation or misinformation. We usually have Developers and Bug hunters online to help out along with a great bunch of helpful players.
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Kellyl
The Reality Dysfunction
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Casqade To clear this up. The only thing we have done for this expansion is to decouple Fleets from Wars. That means that if you (A) neutral player join a Fleet with someone (B) who is in a war with someone else(C), you will not show up as a target. So basically it works just like if it there wasn't a fleet involved.
If you(A) decide to repair your buddy(B) who is in a war with someone(C), you(A) will not show up as a war target to that someone(C), until the person(C) who is in war with your buddy(B) shoots your buddy(B). This is not anything new, that was existing game mechanics before Empyrean Age.
I suggest that people that have questions about this log on to Singularity and try them out. It is a great and quick way to find answers to your questions without any speculation or misinformation. We usually have Developers and Bug hunters online to help out along with a great bunch of helpful players.
I'll use Navigators example:
Player A in State Protectorate (Caldari) Player B in Federal Defence Union (Gallente) Player C in Haven Front (Neutral Player Corporation, using the OP Corp)
Player A makes a gang with C. Player C will continue to show up as neutral to B. B may not shoot C without getting Global Criminal flag. - This is because C is not doing anything to aid or assist A at this moment.
Player C starts repairing player A in a mission. - Again, C is still not doing anything wrong, he is just helping his buddy to do a mission and therefore: Player B may not shoot player C
But when: Player B shoots player A -> Player C will now be flagged to Player B and aggression is allowed. - This is because now player C is actively helping A survive the attack! - Note that Player B is not flagged to Player C; So if he shoots C, there will be a global Criminal Flag.
Player B starts shooting player C - Player C may shoot back to defend himself.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Righty-o.
So you could set up an uber bait ship with some alts repping him, and the alts would be concord protected as long as the bait ship does not fire.
Great. |
Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kellyl Righty-o.
So you could set up an uber bait ship with some alts repping him, and the alts would be concord protected as long as the bait ship does not fire.
Great.
No. Anyone who attacks the bait ship can also attack anyone who is rep'ing the bait ship.
It is the remote rep'ers that cannot attack until they are individually attacked. |
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2008.06.11 16:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ki Tarra No. Anyone who attacks the bait ship can also attack anyone who is rep'ing the bait ship.
It is the remote rep'ers that cannot attack until they are individually attacked.
This is correct. |
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
But when: Player B shoots player A -> Player C will now be flagged to Player B and aggression is allowed. - This is because now player C is actively helping A survive the attack! - Note that Player B is not flagged to Player C; So if he shoots C, there will be a global Criminal Flag.
Almost completely correct (and very clear). But I think there is a problem where I underlined. The antecedent to that "he" is "Player C". He cannot shoot himself. I think you meant to write "he (C) shoots B".
MDD |
Daelin Blackleaf
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:36:00 -
[28]
So you have no idea how many of those ships in the area you are going to be facing until you open fire on the bait?
So one could set-up say...
1: Several RR BS ganged with a fourth bait ship who is in a militia. 2: Park at a gate. 3: Wait for some poor sap to engage. 4: ???? 5: Laugh, collect loot, and salvage.
You can even use a nice cheap ship as bait and then should something unpleasant turn up, and the bait can't escape, you only lose one cheap ship since the enemy can't engage the rest of the gang. |
gfldex
Kabelkopp
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:38:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
If a non Factional Warfare Militia pilot attempts any form of aggression or remote repair on a Factional Warfare Militia pilot in High security it will meet with a global criminal flag.
How about gang assist mods? |
Wylker
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.06.11 17:43:00 -
[30]
While you guys (CCP) are screwing around with flagging, it would be a very appropriate time to fix the bull**** logistics flagging.
This is how logistics SHOULD work:
Remote assistance to ANY player should cause a combat countdown timer for docking/jumping. Remote assistance should AGGRESS you to any aggressors of the person you are assisting. Remote assisting a NON-AGGRESSED pilot that has OUTLAW status should NOT cause a global criminal flag or status penalty. Remote assisting a GLOBALLY AGGRESSED person SHOULD cause sec status penalty and global aggression.
That is all. |
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