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Darius JOHNSON
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:19:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Jamie Hara
I think it's better that as much as possible is made public so that the eve community can judge the elected candidates performance in case the candidates decide to run for the council again.
I cannot agree more with this post.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
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EnemyOfStairs
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:53:00 -
[62]
Guys stop fighting what you don't realize is this was all planned at the bob bbq last year in conjunction with CCP so that it would discredit the goons and fffffffffffffff |
Faekurias
Black Legion Command
Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:55:00 -
[63]
I just wanted to drop by and say:
I smell blootfullet.
o/ |
White Ronin
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:12:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: White Ronin
Go to a random lottery and you get what you get.
It is alot better then what we have now.
You'll get a series of random numbers over which you have no control. The council however was placed there via election. If you don't like your representative vote for someone else next time around. There's not much more that can be said about it.
Please explain how the poor behavior, infighting and basic poor performance shown by the general CSM (though to be fair it seems to swirl around a few select members) and "control".
No.
You serve no purpose.
You need dismissed in disgrace.
You have failed.
Your posts show this. I only have to point people in the direction of your childish manipulations to show them the results of having elected csm.
Failed completely to have a positive impact.
Thank you.
Now lets stop wasting time, disband this group of corp selfservers and stop wasting time even having their forums as they are nothing but fights for illusionary power.
ANYTHING would be better then this.
It is really painful to watch.
And the worse part is the only defense from the embarisment the CSM have become is claiming that "I didnt vote for them".
How sad is that?
You have done more to prove the common player is best to keep silent and not make a choice or let their voice be heard then to get through ONE CSM meeting in a civil and not obviously bating and distruptive manner.
Failure.
Hope we can just forget this and move on to something more productive.
Thank you for wasting our time.
Now stop doin it. |
Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:14:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Yorda on 12/06/2008 20:17:53
Originally by: White Ronin
Please explain how the poor behavior, infighting and basic poor performance shown by the general CSM (though to be fair it seems to swirl around a few select members) and "control".
No.
You serve no purpose.
You need dismissed in disgrace.
You have failed.
Your posts show this. I only have to point people in the direction of your childish manipulations to show them the results of having elected csm.
Failed completely to have a positive impact.
Thank you.
Now lets stop wasting time, disband this group of corp selfservers and stop wasting time even having their forums as they are nothing but fights for illusionary power.
ANYTHING would be better then this.
It is really painful to watch.
And the worse part is the only defense from the embarisment the CSM have become is claiming that "I didnt vote for them".
How sad is that?
You have done more to prove the common player is best to keep silent and not make a choice or let their voice be heard then to get through ONE CSM meeting in a civil and not obviously bating and distruptive manner.
Failure.
Hope we can just forget this and move on to something more productive.
Thank you for wasting our time.
Now stop doin it.
It's called democracy, get use to it? I guess we could just continue having CCP do whatever they feel is necessary and ignore the general players until they get ****ed off enough.
(Also, they got through a couple of meetings pretty civil until Jade decided to keep pressing his "chair" powers). |
Kallynda Nai
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:38:00 -
[66]
Originally by: White Ronin
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: White Ronin
Go to a random lottery and you get what you get.
It is alot better then what we have now.
You'll get a series of random numbers over which you have no control. The council however was placed there via election. If you don't like your representative vote for someone else next time around. There's not much more that can be said about it.
Please explain how the poor behavior, infighting and basic poor performance shown by the general CSM (though to be fair it seems to swirl around a few select members) and "control".
No.
You serve no purpose.
You need dismissed in disgrace.
You have failed.
Your posts show this. I only have to point people in the direction of your childish manipulations to show them the results of having elected csm.
Failed completely to have a positive impact.
Thank you.
Now lets stop wasting time, disband this group of corp selfservers and stop wasting time even having their forums as they are nothing but fights for illusionary power.
ANYTHING would be better then this.
It is really painful to watch.
And the worse part is the only defense from the embarisment the CSM have become is claiming that "I didnt vote for them".
How sad is that?
You have done more to prove the common player is best to keep silent and not make a choice or let their voice be heard then to get through ONE CSM meeting in a civil and not obviously bating and distruptive manner.
Failure.
Hope we can just forget this and move on to something more productive.
Thank you for wasting our time.
Now stop doin it.
-dbp |
Darius JOHNSON
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:11:00 -
[67]
Originally by: White Ronin
Please explain how the poor behavior, infighting and basic poor performance shown by the general CSM (though to be fair it seems to swirl around a few select members) and "control".
No.
You serve no purpose.
You need dismissed in disgrace.
You have failed.
Your posts show this. I only have to point people in the direction of your childish manipulations to show them the results of having elected csm.
Failed completely to have a positive impact.
Thank you.
Now lets stop wasting time, disband this group of corp selfservers and stop wasting time even having their forums as they are nothing but fights for illusionary power.
ANYTHING would be better then this.
It is really painful to watch.
And the worse part is the only defense from the embarisment the CSM have become is claiming that "I didnt vote for them".
How sad is that?
You have done more to prove the common player is best to keep silent and not make a choice or let their voice be heard then to get through ONE CSM meeting in a civil and not obviously bating and distruptive manner.
Failure.
Hope we can just forget this and move on to something more productive.
Thank you for wasting our time.
Now stop doin it.
It is you.
You are the failure.
Your posts disgrace the spirits of those who posted before you.
You should resign from posting in disgrace.
Please explain for me your selfserving lack of sentence structure.
and your inability to respond to a reasonable post
you have done more to prove that I should not read your next post
than any other bad poster that has come
before
you
please stop wasting everyones time
with
this
drivel
and
accusation
this
is
painful
to
watch
thank you for wastin my time
now stop doin it |
Jarvis Hellstrom
The Flying Tigers
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:15:00 -
[68]
People - please.
First of all - to the members of the council who have taken the time to post here - thank you (whether or not I agree with you - it's nice to see you taking the time).
White Ronin - you hold a strong opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. I would suggest, honestly, that you run for council next time around. Fix this problem from the inside. It really is the best way.
I've no idea about Goons or any of that. I'm far too low on the food chain and don't know any personally - so as an EVE subscriber, don't care as long as they do their best to represent my interests as best they can.
Each and every one of us - from hardcore PvP Pirates to Mission runners who never leave 1.0 space are relying on you. Bring the issues to CCP. Try not to let your personal feelings or agendas interfere too much with your judgement (we know you're human - please just do your best). Speak your mind. Make EVE a better place.
To Darius and Inanna - I think you both make a lot of sense. Thank you again for your words. To Jade - you seem hung up on what the Chair and the Vice Chair want to do. That's wrong. That is extremely abuseable power - for two to silence anyone in such a small, theoretically democratic, council. The people of EVE will not, I think, thank you for using it or abusing it in such a way. Transparency is critical to all who value democracy. So is Free Speech. There are other ways to moderate other than brute force. I suggest examining them.
Finally - as to the low vote turnout - please keep in mind that not all of EVE reads these forums. Many didn't understand what all the hullaballoo was about in the login messages and were more interested in playing the game than finding out. Hopefully that will change next time around.
At the end of the day - you are all our representatives whether we voted or not. You hold great responsibility. Not Power - CCP has all that, but responsibility.
Please use it wisely and please work together for all our betterment. We will thank you for it and you will all enjoy your positions more for it.
Good luck to all of you and best wishes.
J.H.
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MahFreightah
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
That's just my opinion on the subject. Take it or leave it. To be frank while I may disagree with Jade I could really care less about what it does provided it's not presuming to tell me what I can say, how I have to say it or taking what I said and changing into something else. I can't speak for anyone else in that regard.
Would it be asking too much to suggest you cut out this referring to another person as "it" business? We got elected as people, we know each others names and we're going to be sitting down at a face to face conference next week. We might not like each other but referring to other council members as "it" is hardly helping the atmosphere at this point. You aren't going to be doing this face to face, why act this way on a public forum?
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Alesia Iel
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:27:00 -
[70]
I just have a general question really, are the representatives assigned fields randomly, or because they have basic knowledge on the subjects they are in charge of.
Namely LaVista, the 'economist' of the CSM as far as I can see. I know he wrote two reports on the eve economy, but weren't these disregarded due to lack of an in depth economic knowledge or something?
Either way I am looking forward to see some actual results from the CSM, but I seriously do hope that the people appointed actually do represent the average player in eve, and have at least some basic knowledge in the fields that they have been assigned, otherwise it could mean trouble.
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Darius JOHNSON
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:29:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Alesia Iel
I just have a general question really, are the representatives assigned fields randomly, or because they have basic knowledge on the subjects they are in charge of.
Namely LaVista, the 'economist' of the CSM as far as I can see. I know he wrote two reports on the eve economy, but weren't these disregarded due to lack of an in depth economic knowledge or something?
Either way I am looking forward to see some actual results from the CSM, but I seriously do hope that the people appointed actually do represent the average player in eve, and have at least some basic knowledge in the fields that they have been assigned, otherwise it could mean trouble.
To my knowledge we haven't been assigned any fields. If we have I sure don't know what mine is. Any assignation we may have as far as I know is what we gave ourselves prior to running.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You might be a big man on the internets Darius but prepare to be laughed at quite a lot in Europe.
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Courthouse
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
To my knowledge we haven't been assigned any fields. If we have I sure don't know what mine is. Any assignation we may have as far as I know is what we gave ourselves prior to running.
I assignation you pubbie mining reforms. |
Darius JOHNSON
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Posted - 2008.06.13 00:12:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Courthouse
I assignation you pubbie mining reforms.
It's a word I just looked it up. Get out. |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.14 13:48:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
You'll get a series of random numbers over which you have no control. The council however was placed there via election. If you don't like your representative vote for someone else next time around. There's not much more that can be said about it.
I for one hope that there isn't a "Next time around."
CCP seem to be wasting valuable resources on something that so far has created nothing more than a group of arguing players with gold avatars beside their name on a forum.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.06.14 15:21:00 -
[75]
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/06/2008 15:25:00
Originally by: Verone
I for one hope that there isn't a "Next time around."
CCP seem to be wasting valuable resources on something that so far has created nothing more than a group of arguing players with gold avatars beside their name on a forum.
Verone, what exactly did you expect to happen? Did you think we were going to cure cancer and stop all war in the world?
CSM has only been in place for about a month or so. We have only just sent off the initial agenda for Iceland.
So Verone, how can you judge something so soon? Yes, there has been some issues. But that was really to be expected.
Do you also go "GOD DAMN THIS COMPUTER IS CRAP LOL" before you even plug in the motherboard in a new computer?
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I believe I made this point on a podcast once. What is going to make CSM fail is not CSM itself. CSM would have to fail PRETTY damn epicly and have the whole CSM banned in order for that to happen.
What IS going to be the death of CSM is people with unreasonable expectations.
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Hamfast
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Posted - 2008.06.14 16:27:00 -
[76]
Originally by: EnemyOfStairs
Guys stop fighting what you don't realize is this was all planned at the bob bbq last year in conjunction with CCP so that it would discredit the goons and fffffffffffffff
If this was the real plan then I would call it a complete failure... I think Darius JOHNSON has done a whole lot better then I would have expected...
In fact the CSM has done quite well for the first time around, with luck, things will get better.
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:57:00 -
[77]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/06/2008 15:25:00
Originally by: Verone
I for one hope that there isn't a "Next time around."
CCP seem to be wasting valuable resources on something that so far has created nothing more than a group of arguing players with gold avatars beside their name on a forum.
Verone, what exactly did you expect to happen? Did you think we were going to cure cancer and stop all war in the world?
CSM has only been in place for about a month or so. We have only just sent off the initial agenda for Iceland.
No, but what I expected you all to be able to do is treat the players you're representing with at least a small amount of courtesy.
I also expected that the CSM would work together, rather than lock horns on the forums like a pack of children in order to see who looks the toughest and meanest.
Finally I expected you all to be able to hold a meeting without it degrading into childish bickering resulting in people who're at the meeting to give their viewpoints being muted and unable to do so.
All of these things the CSM has failed horribly to do.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
So Verone, how can you judge something so soon? Yes, there has been some issues. But that was really to be expected.
Do you also go "GOD DAMN THIS COMPUTER IS CRAP LOL" before you even plug in the motherboard in a new computer?
No, I make sure that I buy the correct components, and that I know what I'm getting before I assemble a machine so that I'm not dissapointed.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
[What IS going to be the death of CSM is people with unreasonable expectations.
I fail to see how my expectations of you people to do what you were elected to do are in any way unreasonable or excessive.
At present all I've seen from the CSM is sets of meeting minutes that discuss very little, a loose and incomplete agenda for a meeting that takes place in two weeks, and a group of players who've been elected throwing childish insults at eachother across a forum and throwing their weight about in meetings with heavy handed and overzealous moderation.
To be honest, CCP is wasting their money. It would have been much better spent in keeping the Eve-TV weekly show alive, something that like the CSM was unique, but unlike the CSM actually strengthened the bonds between players, gave rival corporations something to talk about and gave Eve something no other MMO has.
At present, Eve has what every other MMO has, a bunch of players (albeit with pretty pointless little badges beside their names on a forum) that are arguing and bickering like children.
Sorry mate, it doesn't float with me. This term for the CSM has already failed at it's job in my opinion.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.06.14 18:26:00 -
[78]
Verone, I both agree and disagree with you.
I do agree with you that the behaviour so far is a fiasco.
But we have made progress. The last meeting was a bliss. We have recently send off a large list of issues to CCP for us to discuss at Iceland.
But I think the difference between you and I is that your requirements for CSM to be good is that the council works great together. While I definitely see your point and to a large degree agree with you, I think what really matters is that we make progress and that the council manages to make a difference and push forward the interest of the playerbase.
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.14 19:01:00 -
[79]
It's not the job of the CSM to push forward the interests of the player base. It's the CSM's job to discuss and vote on issues that affect the majority of the players, and will benefit them. A consequence of this discussion and vote is that SOME issues have to be addressed by CCP.
Can you tell us how many ISSUES in total were forwarded to CCP (not topics, but individual issues)?
Can you also tell us how many of those issues affect the MAJORITY of Eve players?
How much time, in total, was taken to discuss the pros and cons of the issues before voting in meetings?
How much interaction and discussion did you and other CSM members have via the forums on the specific issues?
Take care,
Bruce Hansen
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Willford Bremly
Domini Umbrus
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.06.15 08:09:00 -
[80]
Take the Goon aspect out of this. I don't think it was CCP's intentions to allow any member to "mute" another member over a disagreement. When I read the logs I saw no reason the Mutee should have been silenced over a debate in a DEMOCRATIC assembly. That was pure childish behavior on Jade's part. To be honest I expecting that kind of behavior from the Goons before I did anyone else.
Hate Goons all you want but from reading the logs they seem to be doing a fine job. You know, they debate, they back up that debate with reasoning. They DON'T mute people that they don't agree with. That just childish, even for a Goon. 
»\(¦_o)/»
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Recluse Viramor
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.17 17:06:00 -
[81]
lol, while the CSM's may never have an impact on anything they are quite entertaining.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.06.26 07:35:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 26/06/2008 07:40:55
Sigh. I wish SirMolle was on the team! At least he knows how to really communicate with the playerbase!
Originally by: Dianabolic
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Victor Vision
Amarr
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2008.06.30 03:10:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Verone
...At present all I've seen from the CSM is sets of meeting minutes that discuss very little, a loose and incomplete agenda for a meeting that takes place in two weeks, and a group of players who've been elected throwing childish insults at eachother across a forum and throwing their weight about in meetings with heavy handed and overzealous moderation.
To be honest, CCP is wasting their money. It would have been much better spent in keeping the Eve-TV weekly show alive, something that like the CSM was unique, but unlike the CSM actually strengthened the bonds between players, gave rival corporations something to talk about and gave Eve something no other MMO has.
At present, Eve has what every other MMO has, a bunch of players (albeit with pretty pointless little badges beside their names on a forum) that are arguing and bickering like children.
Sorry mate, it doesn't float with me. This term for the CSM has already failed at it's job in my opinion.
Harsh words, Verone.
I am a believer in the magic of time.
So I can not make a final statement on the usefulness of the CSM, yet.
Best case scenary would have been different from what we are seeing currently.
But the task is not an easy one, either.
Maybe more practice will improve the CSM.
As I like to say, only time will tell.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.30 05:38:00 -
[84]
Quote:
No, I make sure that I buy the correct components
The you voting the wrong people I guess, not the CSM that is bugging you it seems. If you need more level headed players elect them? but that is just it the CSM is just as opinated as the players in the game and just in the game that will casue conflict. Conflict in one of the things that makes eve, well... eve!
SO sure it's messy but when they all get together in person they all cool off because they are all good people. it's just don't think it's easy for everyone to put asided the in-game politics for the CSM.
that's why people should vote for me :P I live with a goonie, fight in factional warfare and 0.0 space. I've been playing for a long time. I have an alt in eve uni for teaching new players, I suicide gank people with my thrid alt I love every part of eve and really don't have any issue with any player on the forums.
But I'm sure (and this the point) that if I had no issues with players someone would whine about me not whining and say I'm a CCP spy and I'm breaking the game and such.
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White Ronin
Gallente
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.07.10 04:39:00 -
[85]
Can someone please lock this ****ing thread.
I mean really it was not ment for anyones soapbox but my own.
And until you can show how the CSM have done anything, good or bad, debating their currently nonexistant hypothetical impact is a waste.
One I dont want my name on thank you.
I have enough trash threads.
God I can not believe this thread is still on the front page.
What a waste.
Die ect...
---------------------------------------------
"There have always been ghosts in the machine . . . random segments of code that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols. " |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.07.10 07:50:00 -
[86]
Originally by: White Ronin
And until you can show how the CSM have done anything, good or bad
Based on our feedback, CCP has created an internal UI focus-group inside the company. Once in a while they will be flying a guy from CCP US, who is an expert in UI, over to Reykjavik to help rework the UI.
So the CSM has done something.
But you will probably not think that it counts.. Well, then wait for the minutes. While nothing will happen instantly, things WILL change. For instance the assembly arrays are probably getting changed.
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