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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:30:00 -
[1]
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:32:00 -
[2]
seems you haven't :P
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Elias Modron
Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:33:00 -
[3]
A+++ would read again.
Oh wai-
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: MotherMoon seems you haven't :P
shhhhh
Im waiting for the punchline..
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Armoured C
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jove X
The tin hat didn't work.
FW last 24 hours stats
(Applying at F.D.B.U |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:50:00 -
[6]
Better than a wall of text tbh.... -------- Ideas for: Mining Vote |
Mashie Saldana
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:53:00 -
[7]
ts;dr
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Daisho Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:56:00 -
[8]
Can't wait for the straight to DVD adaptation of this.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:58:00 -
[9]
In an epic thread ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Armoured C
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.13 15:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Winterblink Can't wait for the straight to DVD adaptation of this.
genius, how come your not a millionaire we will never know
FW last 24 hours stats
(Applying at F.D.B.U |
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Stanya
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:04:00 -
[11]
Khanid/heideran issue..
Old emperor chosen, heirs kill themselves, Khanid refuses and runs away.
In sarums case, she dissappeared, and the Emperor is dead - she is the last Heir from that time that is alive, so she claims to be empress.
If the others want to disaggree, then its trial times again, and who wants to risk suicide/death at hand of the sarum navy?
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Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:05:00 -
[12]
Sorry, took me a bit to get the post in. Got it in eventually.
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jove X how can Jamyl Sarum now simply get away with it? Why wasn't she hounded out of the empire like Khanid II as a heretic?
Because she saved their asses in the big one. |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:18:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jove X on 13/06/2008 16:18:43
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Jove X how can Jamyl Sarum now simply get away with it? Why wasn't she hounded out of the empire like Khanid II as a heretic?
Because she saved their asses in the big one.
If her subsequent accomplishments erase her stigma as heretic - the same can be said of Khanid the II who successfully ran an Amarr loyal Kingdom, protected one of Amarr's borders, provided the Amarr with industry and awesome ships etc etc etc. One battle (by Jamyl Sarum) does not equal 300 years of loyal and exception service by (Khanid II).
Fact is this storyline makes no sense, and apparently ignores other Amarr storylines.
I think two things are happening: 1. CCP writers did not think about the Jamyl Sarum / Khanid II parallel 2. CCP needs Jamyl Sarum to be Empress to support the book.
For 1. CCP has to consider this - because this turn of events is just crazy and inconsistent For 2. The book is not a good enough reason to ram this storyline through, although with the book being published - I haven't a clue how CCP can fix this.
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jove X
How would the user community react if a death star, and the enterprise suddenly showed up in Jita?
Most people seem to miss out on this... |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 16:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jove X on 13/06/2008 16:38:10
Originally by: Inertial Most people seem to miss out on this...
This is the real pressing issue tbh, and we the community, Must press to make sure this happens.
Yes and I suspect it is a necessary path to lead to the book - which is a pity. It means that the book assumes some setting that for the sake of consistency we shouldn't have to accept. |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 17:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Stanya Khanid/heideran issue.. In sarums case, she dissappeared, and the Emperor is dead - she is the last Heir from that time that is alive, so she claims to be empress./quote]
She isn't the last heir though. Khanid II still survives and is the 'oldest surviving heir'. The other houses also have heirs.
There is no reason why Lady Sarum should be Empress with going through the 'selection process'. |
Adaris
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Posted - 2008.06.13 18:19:00 -
[18]
Quote: a death star and the enterprise suddenly showed up in Jita
omg *hops in shuttle* |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Adaris
Quote: a death star and the enterprise suddenly showed up in Jita
omg *hops in shuttle*
I think it would be more like ..
"CCP WTF were you thinking? What the hum is a death star and the Enterprise donig in Jita?"
Or
... "remove them at once .. they are causing lag.. "
The point is that players demand consistency and this is not consistent. I personally am doubtful the novel is going to make it consistent somehow.
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Yoshito Sanders
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2008.06.13 19:55:00 -
[20]
Jamyl Sarum's return is much different than Khanid II's defection. Khanid II refused to commit suicide. He refused to do Shak'tol Syn at all. Meanwhile, Jamyl did commit suicide. Whether she was cloned or if there was a divine revival (which she could claim and the Theology Council could validated), that is the first difference.
Secondly, Jamyl lost the trials, allowed Doriam to take over, and then did nothing. Khanid II decided to take off with a large amount of the Amarr Navy and like 1/5th of the Empire's space and started a bloody revolution. He killed other Amarrians in order to keep power. Jamyl did not do that. You keep saying that Khanid created an "Amarr loyal" state and protected the Amarr's border, but this is untrue. The Kingdom and Empire were hostile until around 3 years ago when Doriam became the Emperor and went about peace making. The Kingdom and Empire weren't in an active state of war, but they certainly weren't friendly with each other.
You're looking at the issues in a very simplistic way. That doesn't mean Khanid II wouldn't object, but at this point, he really has no reason to do so. He's fat and happy with his Kingdom.
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:02:00 -
[21]
Admittedly I dont cover the RP stuff all that much, but considering the whole backstory of FW is lots of crazy events at once, with the imperial succession just the latest of them, it doesnt seem that artificial that CCP is doing it the way they are. I mean a week ago everyone was basically happy and peacefully coexisting, now theres total war.
And as an aside, we all know hard hardcore concord is, and considering this Sarum lady defeated a fleet that blew up concord's HQ I'd say shes officially the most badass character around right now (Chuck Norris envies her). So even if Khanid made a bid for succession, which he didnt, he just doesnt have enough cowbell to compete. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Yo****o Sanders You're looking at the issues in a very simplistic way. That doesn't mean Khanid II wouldn't object, but at this point, he really has no reason to do so. He's fat and happy with his Kingdom.
Yo****o, I doubt very much that I'm looking at this simplistically. I think there is value, in doing as you suggest, and comparing the two.
One post that I think does so reasonably this post.
The issue is this - the very thing that made Khanid an outlaw (regardless of how he dealt with it) is now being swept under the carpet. Lady Sarum and Khanid II both avoided death.
It was not Khanid establishment of a Kingdom that cause him to be exhiled - it was his avoiding death. If this issue then does not permit Lady Sarum from being Empress, it should never have prevented Khanid II!
Even if Lady Sarum had not been made Empress, the fact that she is still considered an heir means that Khanid should also still be considered an heir.
What happened after the actually succession rite is, for the most part, immaterial to either of their suitability.
As it stands now, we have an Empress, and all of the heirs (including Khanid) are still alive. How is that not worse!?
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Lady Khanid
Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:07:00 -
[23]
Khanid II must be eliminated. |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Del Narveux So even if Khanid made a bid for succession, which he didnt, he just doesnt have enough cowbell to compete.
Before you say this, look at the history of the Khanid kingdom. Also look at which Amarrian ships are considered to be the best - all Khanid innovations.
If you're going to say Khanid compete, I'd say that Lady Sarum is the one who can't compete. Khanid has outlasted how many emperors; ruled wisely; survived assassination attempts? etc etc etc |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lady Khanid Lady Khanid II must be eliminated.
Edited for editorial correctness (look closely).
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:43:00 -
[26]
Hey, as long as the Empire is going to ignore the rules for succession, which disqualify both Sarum and Khanid, why not choose based on who has contributed the most to the Empire? With that as the metric, clearly the throne has to go to Aralis. None of the current candidates can claim to have added an entire Region to the Empire, and the fact that he's not an heir could be easily overcome by turning CVA into a royal house and naming Aralis heir.
Besides, I think it would be amusing to turn Providence into a empire region under Amarrian control and turn all of the existing outposts into 'House Aralis' stations.
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Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Becq Starforged Hey, as long as the Empire is going to ignore the rules for succession, which disqualify both Sarum and Khanid, why not choose based on who has contributed the most to the Empire? With that as the metric, clearly the throne has to go to Aralis. None of the current candidates can claim to have added an entire Region to the Empire, and the fact that he's not an heir could be easily overcome by turning CVA into a royal house and naming Aralis heir.
Certainly your suggestion for a new approach to determining succession follows from recent events and the most recent approach.
As long as Amarrian tradition has completely ignored, any and all possibilities are up for grabs, including yours. |
Fabien Aldric
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Posted - 2008.06.13 20:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Fabien Aldric on 13/06/2008 20:58:40
Quote: Edited by: Jove X on 13/06/2008 17:11:36 CCP, If Jamyl Sarum can survive Shak'tol Syn and become Empress - don't you think King Khanid II and his followers might have a major grievance with the Amarr Empire?
Khanid II, for those that don't follow this stuff, was an heir that refused to kill himself after Emperor Heideran was selected. Jamyl Sarum is another heir that apparently didn't die when it came time to choose the next emperor. Khanid II was essentially in danger and called a heretic, so left the empire and created the Khanid Kingdom, but has remained loyal to the Amarr Empire. Jamyl Sarum is now empress?
Jamyl Sarum has mysteriously reappeared .. and according to this news article, the heirs have apparently simply given up their right to be considered for the next emperor and simply acclaimed Jamyl Sarum Empress with no questions asked? Compare that to Khanid who had assassination attempts made on his life, yet remained loyal and successfully ran the Khanid Kingdom.
WTF?!
This is crazy and inconsistent on at least two major points with respect to Role Playing. Firstly if Khanid II can be at risk because he suvived an Imperial success (known as Shak'tol Syn) how can Jamyl Sarum now simply get away with it? Why wasn't she hounded out of the empire like Khanid II as a heretic?
If the acrimony surrounding Khanid II's refusal to kill himself was based upon a breach of tradition, and Khanid's actions deemed heretical, how can Jamyl Sarum simply get away with it? Or worse, how can heirs simply give up their right to be considered, and one heir simply choosen. Don't you think foregoing the Imperial trials is also heretical? Jamyl Sarums claim is tarnished by two marjor heresy's by the standard Khanid was judged by.
I have to ask - CCP story writers - do you actually read your own work?
Don't you think Khanid II, the heir of house of Khanid, a loyal Amarr, albeit separate kingdom is going to have something to say about how hypocritical this all is - that he was a heretic when the Jamyl Sarum a hero? Don't you think that Khanid II with his strong claim to the Emperorship might have something to say about the other heirs simply - giving up their right to be considered Emperor? Right. This is EVE - where logic need not apply.
As another Role-Player put it - the strongest claim to the Emperorship is in fact Khanid II.
I quote from this thread:
Originally by: Veron DaerthHe has, through his successful 300 year rule of the Kingdom, proven himself to be a good, even great ruler. Lady Sarum, simply has not. And the manner in which she has chosen to return leaves me with great doubt as to what manner of ruler she would be. Sometimes the laws and traditions of the Empire need to change, but when they do, you dont fake going along with them just to escape the undesired consequences of those rules and traditions. If your conscience will truly not allow you to abide by them, then stand up and make your case and let God judge your soul. Do it openly and boldly, and make preparations for your defiance by all means. But do it where you can be judged by all men and where all can see the consequence of your actions.
For those who are apt to claim - I'm reacting to this simply because my emperor wasn't choosen - that's not the issue. The issue is that this is simply so out of left field that it makes absolutely no sense. It is completely inconsistent with the story line to date.
How would the user community react if a death star, and the enterprise suddenly showed up in Jita?
lol, rp |
Jove X
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:17:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Fabien Aldric lol, rp
You're an idiot Fabien.
Replace "lol, rp" with "lol, carebears", or "lol, Pvpers".
You're an idiot because you can't see - how truly great this game is. Your way is the only way.
EVE would be the poorer without the story. You would have no races, no struggle, no EVE. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.13 21:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Becq Starforged Hey, as long as the Empire is going to ignore the rules for succession, which disqualify both Sarum and Khanid, why not choose based on who has contributed the most to the Empire? With that as the metric, clearly the throne has to go to Aralis. None of the current candidates can claim to have added an entire Region to the Empire, and the fact that he's not an heir could be easily overcome by turning CVA into a royal house and naming Aralis heir.
Besides, I think it would be amusing to turn Providence into a empire region under Amarrian control and turn all of the existing outposts into 'House Aralis' stations.
And I for one would support our new overlord called Aralis. |
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