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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
0
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:The CSM portions seem genuine as to how they felt about the issues and presented them to CCP. But each of CCP's sections read like marketing doublespeak. I can't imagine the Mittani, Seleene or any of the others sitting there listening to such tripe and not losing their minds with the sheer volume of non-answers.
'Because that's our strategy', 'Because that's what our market research said' and 'Because we're taking baby steps' are not answers that will win hearts and minds. It's all a dodge. The fundamental question the CSM asked that CCP did not answer is 'why the hell are you doing all of this without at least flashing it at this elected body, whose singular purpose is to facilitate conversations between you and your customer.'
It shows me that while individual devs may support and appreciate the CSM's role, management in general simply doesn't see their use. This - and it extends further than just the CSM. I've seen too much evidence suggesting that CCP management is out of touch with the rest of the company and the playerbase when it comes to making their goals. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
4
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
I have never been angry at CCP for what has happened since Incarna. I don't see anything wrong, if I take them at their word. What I see as an endemic problem of the company is that they are so focused on what could make their job easier to do that they're forgetting to make the game better.
The last time any form of balancing occurred was in April: http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=223
A minor tweak to a couple ships in Incursion 1.4.
Incursion had 14 releases, each with noticeable changes.
On it's current track, Incarna has had 3.
The game is not getting worse. It's not going anywhere. I've been hoping for 2 months to wake up to a new devblog explaining the 5 new amazing (hell, I'll take 3 new mediocre things) that will be out in the next few weeks, but it still hasn't happened.
I tend to follow the gaming blogs fairly closely and have noticed some games have released massive amounts of content in mere months. Others have monthly or weekly balance patches.
Instead we get news every once in a while that we might get a balance patch of some sort, eventually, for something that's making vast portions of nullsec uninhabitable.
Forget upgrading the API or the forum or (at this point) even fleet lag. There's a massive list of things that need fixing (blasters, gallente, supercaps, factional warfare, sov, drone behaviour, black ops, destroyers, outposts, poses, storyline items, ship models, assault frigates) and a pile of new things (comet/ring mining, 1-6/10 deadspace complexes, new missions, new systems, hive ships, the Tornado, much MUCH more).
I don't think it can't be done. The problem is that with all of video games out there, I'm becoming apathetic. I don't care about EVE anymore, and the thousands of hours I put in for the last few years are starting to seem like a waste that could have been better spent on a myriad of other things.
Impress me. Impress all of us. |
Seismic Stan
Greenbeard's Freebooters Split Infinity.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
If you want a bit more background info on events leading up to the release of these minutes, I've made a list of relevant links here:
Freebooted Blog Banter 28 |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
"The CSM generally agreed that from a purely technical standpoint, Incarna had generally been a very successful expansion"
ahahahahahahahahahahaha you've got to be kidding me |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
"it doesn't do anything, it melts half the graphics cards on the market, it's a poorly coded piece of **** and everyone turns it off immediately but since it doesn't delete boot.ini it is a 'technical success' |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
basically CCP's position is "our QA people can't replicate the problem (because they don't exist, as anyone who has seen a patch can attest to) so there is no problem" |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
"CCP also explained that due to the realities of business and the complexities of the EVE socio-economic system, it could not give the all-encompassing and definitive answers about virtual goods that the community demanded in the days before the summit, and felt they had to maintain the flexibility to adapt to changes in the MMO environment in the future."
translation:
"CCP is going to introduce gold ammo, shut up nerds" |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP mentioned what an amazing feeling it is to see such passion for EVE from the community. Even though the source of display was unfortunate, level emotion and dedication involved was both touching and humbling.
Trolling removed. Zymurgist |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
i'm not actually trying to megapost, I just keep reading through these minutes and being amazed anyone thought this would work at all and feeling The Urge To Post |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
let me make something clear since CCP apparently still doesn't get it: the NeXT store was and is an utter failure beyond "the messaging" you idiots
your idiotic messaging only exacerbated a problem caused by a horrifically flawed design but you don't seem to get the messaging was only the cherry on the **** sundae that was incarna |
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote: CCP also explained that due to the realities of business and the complexities of the EVE socio-economic system, it could not give the all-encompassing and definitive answers about virtual goods that the community demanded in the days before the summit, and felt they had to maintain the flexibility to adapt to changes in the MMO environment in the future.
Translation: We want to sell things that if you knew about would have you canceling your accounts.
Quote: CCP responded that it was already paying the long-term cost of having given such definitive answers in the past and was learning from this prior experience by not doing the same thing again.
I don't really have words to go with this. CCP only just learns that lying is bad?
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Bring Stabity
Magellanic Itg Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Fallout wrote:CCP Xhagen's newest blog contains the meeting minutes from the Special Summit the CSM had with CCP earlier this summer. You may read the blog, and the minutes, here.
These minutes are shameful and you should just retract them, what a hilarious slap in the face |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
161
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
I pity the CSM for knowing about this stuff for months and still having to fight to have it released even in this form.
The minutes are a travesty.
They show CCP riding roughshod over any feedback or opinion or consultation from the player base and asserting the Hillmar mesage of "full steam ahead" at all costs.
The incarna release was not in any way shape or form a smooth success. CQ is so poorly optimized that it needs to be turned off. It uses crazy GPU resources even on one client, its almost mandatory to turn it off across multiple.
A single room with a single avatar should not be using these resources. CSM did the player base (and frankly common sense) a grave disservice to agree that the Incarna release was acceptable in the standard in which it was delivered.
The Nex section simply has the Nex advocate defending the terrible pricing strategy and ignoring any comments to the contrary. I personally wanted to see the CSM debating the whole notion of NeX as a concept and its applicability to Eve Online as a subscription driven MMO. I wanted to see some hard questions about how much Incarna content was intended to be delivered outside of the NeX store. I wanted hard numbers and commitments.
It was just a buzzword-trading joke and doesn't really come across like an emergency summit at all.
Incarna is an immense technical failure that serves only as a Nex display cabinet. NeX is a monsterous bolted-on abortion that threatens traditionally developed content. The Incarna expansion took away content and functionality from the Eve Client.
In short, I don't feel the emergency meeting did appropriately address my concerns as a player and these minutes leave me feeling short-changed and frustrated at the lack of penetrating debate and substantive commitment gained from CCP.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Quoth Weaselior: Bunch of stuff.
Agreed. First of all, these minutes are like a bad comedy routine. I sat and listened to my comp's fans spinning up to max the first time I loaded Dark Room, and then I turned it off and phew, fans winding back down. If you can't replicate the problem, CCP, maybe you're not trying hard enough.
The NeX store: Virtual goods within a game should not cost a day's real life wages for a poor/unskilled worker in an industrialized society. Your pricing is insulting to the vast bulk of your players. Your strategy either does not take into account the loyalty and trust of your fans, or considers that the money to be made from NeX is worth spending that loyalty on something so trivial.
The neglect of Flying in Space: Since CCP seems determined to include Incarna as part of Eve (it's really ******* not), I have to talk about FiS now, instead of just saying 'Eve': So get back to developing the FiS game. It's what brought us here.
Please stop squandering the loyalty of your fanbase, CCP. It is not a currency you can just print more of. |
Cedric deBouilard
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
20
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'm sorry, that was a rather dull reading; the document says nothing *new* at all, no details, no nothing and red-tape all around.
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Esan Vartesa
Khanid Trade Syndicate
28
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: In short, I don't feel the emergency meeting did appropriately address my concerns as a player and these minutes leave me feeling short-changed and frustrated at the lack of penetrating debate and substantive commitment gained from CCP.
Jade, please don't make the mistake of thinking these minutes are in any way, shape, or form indicative of what actually went on at the emergency summit. It's fairly obvious from the document itself, and more so from the lengthy disagreements over "tone", that this is not an accurate summary of what was discussed.
Everything that gets officially released by CCP on this issue has been passed through a PR review process, facts be damned.
It's unfortunate. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
This is just.... bad. 8 pages of refusal to acknowledge any substantive error beyond "poor messaging" and non-committal statements about the plans for virtual goods. The promise that virtual goods will not confer "unfair advantages" is particularly choice, since it implies that "fair advantages" are A-OK. And of course, you can define "fair" in whatever way takes your fancy. Nice weasel words. |
Kusanagi Kasuga
Ferocious Felines
3
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
I for one would like to know what previous promise to the players CCP feels they have suffered from making - if they have ended up keeping it - and whether the players would have preferred they keep it.
Because if CCP's issue with agreeing not to do something is that they won't be able to do it later, players be damned, then that's EXACTLY THE POINT of such an agreement. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
58
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:I for one would like to know what previous promise to the players CCP feels they have suffered from making - if they have ended up keeping it - and whether the players would have preferred they keep it.
that there would be no microtransactions in eve
oops |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:I for one would like to know what previous promise to the players CCP feels they have suffered from making - if they have ended up keeping it - and whether the players would have preferred they keep it.
that there would be no microtransactions in eve oops
That's okay, there still aren't. |
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Kusanagi Kasuga
Ferocious Felines
3
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Weaselior wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:I for one would like to know what previous promise to the players CCP feels they have suffered from making - if they have ended up keeping it - and whether the players would have preferred they keep it.
that there would be no microtransactions in eve oops That's okay, there still aren't.
Because this isn't EVE anymore?
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:Innominate wrote:Weaselior wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:I for one would like to know what previous promise to the players CCP feels they have suffered from making - if they have ended up keeping it - and whether the players would have preferred they keep it.
that there would be no microtransactions in eve That's okay, there still aren't. Because this isn't EVE anymore?
Because there's nothing "micro" about them. |
Bring Stabity
Magellanic Itg Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:Innominate wrote:Weaselior wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:I for one would like to know what previous promise to the players CCP feels they have suffered from making - if they have ended up keeping it - and whether the players would have preferred they keep it.
that there would be no microtransactions in eve oops That's okay, there still aren't. Because this isn't EVE anymore?
It's a shell of its former self, at best |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
0
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Posted - 2011.09.09 16:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
So then, from all the posts below the one I made last I assume more ppl noticed a clear lack of "NO! we will not be making any "gold ammo" items" |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.09.09 17:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vaako Horizon wrote:So then, from all the posts below the one I made last I assume more ppl noticed a clear lack of "NO! we will not be making any "gold ammo" items"
I think it's still pretty clear they intend to go in that direction, it's just not an immediate plan. |
Maven Deltor
Bad Sekta
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 17:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
minutes wrote:The CSM leveled harsh criticism at the decision to not release all the items CCP had available when the NeX was opened. CCP replied that the decision was fully in line with the strategy of taking small steps, observing the results and then taking the next steps. The alternative would have meant releasing too much at once, which would have severely hampered CCP's ability to react to launch feedback and adjust strategy.
This statement bothers me, because from what I remember the "feedback" was highly negative, and the result was Hilmar telling the crew to stay the course. Where was the reaction to feedback and adjustment in strategy? Or was this statement a convenient excuse? |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
0
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Posted - 2011.09.09 17:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Vaako Horizon wrote:So then, from all the posts below the one I made last I assume more ppl noticed a clear lack of "NO! we will not be making any "gold ammo" items" I think it's still pretty clear they intend to go in that direction, it's just not an immediate plan.
Its sad...
While I dont pvp in any way, shape or form ( other then getting killed.... ) I do have a few thing that keep me addicted to EVE. 1. The skill system. 2. the general flying in space... 3. the multitude of things to do ( despite being only a highsec carebear... )
But... if and/or when they implement "gold ammo" it will be the end of my accounts no matter what they say... |
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
24
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Posted - 2011.09.09 17:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Reading through it now. Wow.
If THIS is what ended up being the version acceptable to the CSM, I can't even begin to imagine how biased CCP's initial versions were.
The whole thing reads like a CCP press release, with a few defensive bits here and there. i feel the same way.
first the text is extremely boring to read due to the way it's phrased then i don't see it as being neutral
i'll develop later. |
Ro'Kera
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 17:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
I canceled my autorenew for both my accounts when this whole thing went down, because I felt like CCP was just screwing with us. My alt ran out last month; this one has 80 days remaining.
These minutes don't give me any confidence at all that I'll be renewing this account before then. |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
17
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Posted - 2011.09.09 17:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:After reading the CSM statement, Hilmar made some suggestions as to its tone. The CSM thanked Hilmar for his advice, but decided that it properly expressed their conclusions. It was released unedited.
yes, I bet that was exactly what happen, polite and all...
--
This is what I imagine that really happen at that point:
After reading the CSM statement, Hilmar picked up the sword won in the last fanfest and immediately try to kill Mittens. Thanks to his fast spy moves, Mittens ducked and disarmed Hilmar. Then a fist fight started between the two. A huge brawl then started with the remaining CSM members grabbing Zulu and using him as a punching bag. Mittens and Hilmar epic fight lead them to the corridors and several rooms of the building. After 20 minutes Hilmar asked for parley and the fight stop. At this point Hilmar looks up and says "what is that" and when Mittens looks up he runs away never to be seen or heard to this day. After Zulu lost is conscience and Hilmar run away, the CSM statement was released unedited.
Now if something like this was in the minutes I would believe it faster then I believe in that sentence above. |
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