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Volkier Neigh
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Posted - 2008.06.14 12:14:00 -
[1]
Long story short, I was happily missioning today, and tried to activate a smartbomb next to an acceleration gate - like I have done so many times in the past. To my dismay and horror, I got prompted with a message "Interference from stargate or station or whatnot is preventing your smartbomb from activating".
Now I really don't know what was the purpose / reason / common sense behind this change. For one, I do not see any viable 'pros' to this, as acceleration gates where indestructible and non-concord assisted objects in the past - meaning you could smack the heck out of them without any consequences (and even then, there is already a pop-up saying that it's a dangerous act if you hit a friendly, and I strongly believe that the majority should not suffer through the idiocity of others).
For another, it's a blatantly rude support on the CCP's behalf for assisting mission-gank pirates. I have lost the number of times I have been saved (in missions) from a gank of pirates who probed me down, attacked me, but with my smartbomb killing their drones, allowing me to survive the extra one or two minutes for re-enforcements to arrive. Now you basically have NO defence against gank pirate drones - for no reason other than being next to an acceleration gate?
Not to mention the fact that we actually DO use smartbombs against the rats in missions too - should they venture too close.
Now I am not whining that pirates can kill me easily now or anything. As much as I hate loosing ships to them, I don't believe EVE would be as entertaining without it's own Anarchy, pirates, the bad guys, the good guys and whatnot. But what is with the trend to "let's throw in random space clouds so people cannot use their cloak, lets throw in random 'interferences' and 'conflicts' with the modules and the environment, let's prevent people from using smartbombs next to acceleration gates for no known reasons"? What next? 'let's not allow people to shoot unless conditions A B and C are present? We can always use the excuse of "theres a random space anomaly interfering with whatever it is you are trying to do"
What happened to EVE priding itself as a versatile creative universe? At this rate, it seems to be following all of the other MMO's down the nerfy road of dumbification.
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Flaming Candle
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Posted - 2008.06.14 12:26:00 -
[2]
I believe this change is so that a couple of smartbombing battleships can't camp a frigate sized FW gate and kill anything that comes close. Since the FW gates suck you into the gate at 0m, there is no way to aviod this.
It is still possible to do a smartbombing camp but you need to be more careful about your positioning: if your smartbomb has 5km range, you need to be a little over 5km from the gate.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.14 16:15:00 -
[3]
Haha, I was sure this was going to be a pirate complaining about the change. I never expected to see a mission runner angry about it.
Anyway, if you're for real...
 Quote:
For another, it's a blatantly rude support on the CCP's behalf for assisting mission-gank pirates. I have lost the number of times I have been saved (in missions) from a gank of pirates who probed me down, attacked me, but with my smartbomb killing their drones, allowing me to survive the extra one or two minutes for re-enforcements to arrive. Now you basically have NO defence against gank pirate drones - for no reason other than being next to an acceleration gate?
Not to mention the fact that we actually DO use smartbombs against the rats in missions too - should they venture too close.
Keep in mind the limitation is only within 5000m of a warp gate, and adjust your tactics accordingly.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Siege
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2008.06.14 17:44:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Siege on 14/06/2008 17:44:47
Short version is.....
Players with faction smartbombs would just sit on top of gates with the smartbombs running, and everything destroyer sized and below that either warped to that gate or jumped through would stand a very good chance of getting popped. There was no possible course of action to prevent it, since it would usually happen during a time period that the player had no control of their ship. (I.E. still "in warp" or during a session change.)
------ begin signature -----
Little known Eve fact, The original race names were:
Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation. |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.06.15 00:47:00 -
[5]
3 BS lined up in a row in a system with 2 gates can still kill pretty much everything (including BS) before they come out of warp.
They park 5km from the gate and line up 6km from each other (or just outside faction SB range) and as soon as an incoming ship appears on scanner turn on all of their smartbombs.
5 of these will kill even a well tanked BS before it loads the local grid.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.15 01:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
3 BS lined up in a row in a system with 2 gates can still kill pretty much everything (including BS) before they come out of warp.
They park 5km from the gate and line up 6km from each other (or just outside faction SB range) and as soon as an incoming ship appears on scanner turn on all of their smartbombs.
5 of these will kill even a well tanked BS before it loads the local grid.
The thread and the mechanics change has nothing to do with jump gates really.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Volkier Neigh
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Posted - 2008.06.15 08:20:00 -
[7]
I am talking about the acceleration gates in missions - NOT jump gates / stations and whatnot. And of COURSE a mission runner would complain about this - I now cannot use a very important bit of my arsenal AGAINST being ganked by pirates in a mission. HOW in the world is it supposed to HELP when you would obviously be there first with the pirates warping to YOU?
Worsed off, you warp to an acceleration gate in a mission, get webbed by 3 or 4 rat frigs, and you might as well have a big neon sign on top of your ship for pirates "Easy-drone target".
Again, I am not whining that 'my ship got blown up by pirates' or whatever - as I said earlier, as much as I hate getting ganked, that extra danger is what makes EVE a more believable universe. But I am disguisted at how the answer to everything is "make it simply not turn on / work"
And speaking of the answer, and more on the subject of the actual question: It's not like pirate ganks are smartbombing high sec - they are doing it in low sec which is universally known as being more dangerous, and lets face it, pirates would always find a way to gank you eventually - sooner or later, one way or another. Not allowing people to use their weapons is not going to solve anything - as I said earlier, whats next? Not allowed to use ECMs / Missiles / any AEs? We might as well get rid of low sec altogether - and even that would be more enjoyable since you would at least be able to use the equipment you have.
No offense, but changes like this are simply an embarassment to the intellect of whoever thought of implimenting them in the first place.
On a similar subject, how about instead trying to come up with something that will enable people to warp out their pod after being ganked WITHOUT having to disable all the effects which cause severe lag? For example having the pod spawn once all the pretty explosions and whatnot have all died off, or spawning cloaked (and obviously uncloaking the moment it moves off)?
Instead we get "you are not allowed to use this weapon / that weapon" which - may I remind you - work against pirates just as well? It's plain blasphemy!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.15 09:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Flaming Candle
I believe this change is so that a couple of smartbombing battleships can't camp a frigate sized FW gate and kill anything that comes close. Since the FW gates suck you into the gate at 0m, there is no way to aviod this.
It is still possible to do a smartbombing camp but you need to be more careful about your positioning: if your smartbomb has 5km range, you need to be a little over 5km from the gate.
false. move about 5 ms away from the gate. you'll still show up as 0 away. Use your tactical overlay to see real range.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.15 18:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Volkier Neigh
I am talking about the acceleration gates in missions - NOT jump gates / stations and whatnot. And of COURSE a mission runner would complain about this - I now cannot use a very important bit of my arsenal AGAINST being ganked by pirates in a mission. HOW in the world is it supposed to HELP when you would obviously be there first with the pirates warping to YOU?
That was already explained in post #2. No, of COURSE it is NOT meant to HELP when YOU are already in the mission.
Quote:
Worsed off, you warp to an acceleration gate in a mission, get webbed by 3 or 4 rat frigs, and you might as well have a big neon sign on top of your ship for pirates "Easy-drone target".
Well given that you know what the new rules are, that would be kind of a dumb move on your part, wouldn't it?
Quote:
Instead we get "you are not allowed to use this weapon / that weapon" which - may I remind you - work against pirates just as well? It's plain blasphemy!
Eh, it's not a blasphemy. SBs have been limited at other places for a long time. The fact is, SBs are difficult for the game in that they ignore basic mechanics that every other weapon system in the game has to abide by. So they're nearly an I Win button when used in situations that take advantage of a session change or warp.
It'd be different if they'd removed them from the game, or restricted them really severely--for instance, by not allowing SBs in deadspace--but instead they only imposed a 5000m limit. That's something both pirates and you can work around if you're willing.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
MarleWH
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Posted - 2008.06.16 04:09:00 -
[10]
Yes, all the patches should further limit pirates, I agree.
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Jaketh Ivanes
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.16 09:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MarleWH
Yes, all the patches should further limit pirates, I agree.
Yes, when CCP limits pirates from exploiting game mechanics and forcing to make an effort, they should keep limiting pirates.
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Volkier Neigh
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Posted - 2008.06.16 09:43:00 -
[12]
Smartbombs already have a disadvantage - they are primarily an anti-drones weapon in PvP situation (with exception of the camps that everyone is so overly worried about) due to their limited range. They take up more power, and don't benefit from anything that increases damage.
Point is - they can no longer be used as anti-drone weapons when being ganked. So let me ask you then - what is stopping a pirate from sitting in a cloaked cov ops ship waiting for someone to clear a room in a mission, start flying towards the acc gate, then uncloak, web, scramble and call in the crew? Sure, one may argue that you would probably be dead anyway, but I've seen plenty of situations where killing the drones was enough to tank that extra five minutes for help to arrive. So congrats, EVE has just CREATED an exploit by which you simply get trapped when you cannot use your very own weapons. What now? To fix that exploit we must nerf cloak? Oh wait, I forgot, they've already done that too.
In all seriousness, I personally find it very very difficult to understand why the gameplay continues to be crippled by constant 'balance changes' and nerfs, while things like UI bugs, and simply common sense functions (such as pinned windows UI transparency, an effect audio control - yes I actually would like to listen to EVE music without the perverted wailing in stations, or turret fire which is set to be 20x louder - just to name a few) are not even yet included.
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Scouteye
Locasta Tactical
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Posted - 2008.06.16 11:21:00 -
[13]
Heres an easy solution for you, get friends to help on your missions or get another acount to help you. The more of you there are, the less likely for you to be ganked.
You can still use your smart bombs if you get away from the gate. Even beter, try and use your scanner to make sure theres no one else around and move quicker, you might not get caught as much then.
Eve, dispite what many, including my self, would like, is NOT a solo player game, nor will it ever be.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.16 14:42:00 -
[14]
First of all, if you're using smartbombs in hi sec it's only a matter of time before someone sneaks up and gets you concordekkened.
Secondly, just move 5km away from the gate and stop whining.
Thirdly, it was implemented to keep a couple disco BS from sitting on a frig only FW gate and blowing them all up as they warped in.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.16 15:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Volkier Neigh
Point is - they can no longer be used as anti-drone weapons when being ganked. So let me ask you then - what is stopping a pirate from sitting in a cloaked cov ops ship waiting for someone to clear a room in a mission, start flying towards the acc gate, then uncloak, web, scramble and call in the crew?
Hint: CovOps don't tank too well.
Also, the SB doesn't prevent that situation either.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Volkier Neigh
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Posted - 2008.06.20 05:36:00 -
[16]
Firstly, No, you are right, it does not help that situation, however I was using it as an example about how 'moving 5km away' doesn't help either.
Secondly, yes you are right, you can adapt to any situation and get more 'friends', or get second account, or hire a maid to play for you while you work (yes I know it's illegal, I'm just using it as an example), however the same thing can be said about pirates smartbombing frigate only gates. Infact, any argument along the lines of 'thats how it is now, live with it' applies to both situations. And yes, the more people in fleet, the better chance of survival - I am not arguing with that and saying that solo pilots should be 'gods'. But I don't see why there is a need to gimp solo pilots even further either.
Thirdly, I'm assuming that faction and modified Smartbombs suffer from a higher range penalty. Otherwise this change would not make much sense. So I ask you now, does it mean that the 'better' the smartbomb, the 'worse' it is now if you get attacked near gates? Believe me, I would LOVE to choose where pirates attack me, but being 4999km away from a gate in a BS, have 5 webbers on me and being raped by 30 drones without any way to at least kill the drones and survive long enough to make it to the gate would not be that uncommon. I would hate to be someone who spent a crap load of money getting a modified 10km range smartbomb - if that means I would need to travel 9999km now instead too.
Fourthly, to continue from the previous point, and say forget everything that has been said and the change was done for the so called 'balance'. Now there is no way to counter drones if you are within 5km if you are in a large ship effectively anymore, making them invulnerable pigeons of doom. So we fixed one issue, and created another one. So now we either have to brainstorm on what to do about the new problem, or ignore it - in which case, 1 - 1 + 1 would still equal to 1.
And lastly, if there was indeed such a big problem, why not instead simply allow 'warp at range' onto FW gates?
Would it fix the problem? -Yes, since you would be able to scout the gates first.
Would that take much effort? -No, heck probably would have taken less.
Would it make sense? -Yes, way more sense in my opinion too.
Would that cause any other problems? -Not that I can see.
::\
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority
Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.06.21 10:21:00 -
[17]
Edited by: JVol on 21/06/2008 10:22:59
Dude.... move 5001m off the damn gate...wtf do you NEED to SIT on the gate for?
.... just WHERE do you run these missions anyways that require you to sit on the gate?
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