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Maus Bailey
International House of PWNCakes
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:12:00 -
[151]
 Quote:
I'll take the horse-archer role every day
Horse archers had their day ruined by rain.
Doesn't seem to rain here much.
In closing, you're a tremendous idiot. |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:18:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
People fly nano's because they are prepared to invest their skillpoints, isk, fittings and general play skill against superior numbers of inferior opponents with cookie-cutter setups is the harsh truth of it. If you are comparing nano-ships with non-nano-ships as two different grades of "tank" you are completely missing the point.
Congrats on your page os wishy-washy text, but this is all I read... and I'm still laughing at it. Like you, oh great one, know exactly why people fly nanos. Claiming "the harsh truth", when in reality nano's are the cookie cutter standard of pvp. I recommend you hit the reset button on your Eve game and try again.
And it is valid to compare speedtank, armor tank, and shield tank... as they all exist for one purpose... absorb damage. Oh oops, wait... speedtanks do more. I forget that a lot.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:20:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Maus Bailey
Quote:
I'll take the horse-archer role every day
Horse archers had their day ruined by rain.
Doesn't seem to rain here much.
In context I guess rain = lag. Since both can kill archers.
Quote:
In closing, you're a tremendous idiot.
And yet I can debate on the internet without puerile name-calling. Funny that.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.07.08 23:42:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I'm guessing its because I've got experience and love for this game in spades and know more sides of Eve conflict that you are capable of understanding with your penchant for complaint at every least upset and your patent inability to understand that variety is the spice of life AND eve and that not everybody plays this glorious political space battle simulator to stand in neat rows at the stargates with the other drones.
Wow... long sentence, full of colorful yet meaningless words... not to mention flat out assumptions, a selfish ego trip, and lack of Eve knowledge. (1) I've played this game longer than you. (2) That 2003.06.01 doesn't make you worthy of anything if you have a selfish agenda and can't accept the greater good for Eve if it doesn't follow your personal path. (3) Your use of words is a travesty to come from the mouth of someone in your position.
Quote:
Some of us are born to shine
So the rest of Eve is just dull in your little world. Sad day to hear that from a CSM.
Quote:
and stand out from the crowd and we like our 200m isk HACs that let us fight 10 to 1 odds
That's exactly why nanos are overpowered. You can fight 10 to 1 and still have near zero risk, the best tank, the best evade option, the premier interceptor (in a cruiser?) and ride off waiting for other's to copy your overpowered tactic and turn this game into the most unhealthy form of muppets and their cookie cutter nano ships. Thereby eliminating 95% of other ships to be effective in your world of speed. YES! That's the Eve I want!
Quote:
and play on skill and talent and inspired leadership rather than simply watching the lag bombs and mindlessly clicking F1-F8 while talking smack on the forums.
Great, thanks for calling anyone else without a nano pretty much a dweeb. You should really chose your words more wisely, you only dig yourself a grave for your selfish needs.
Quote:
Me, I'll take the horse-archer role every day and enjoy shooting you in the throat from the gallop while your comrades look on with terror and disbelief and break and run like the dogs they are.
great, a totally irrelevant metaphor. once again proving you have ONE agenda, and that is to not lose your sweet sweet sound of uber overpowered nano freedom.
btw... a nerf to nanos wouldn't kill the nano. maybe you shouldn't force your nano Eve on everyone and consider how the new nano could adapt. but, why should you adapt? you're the almighty great one. 
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Wasted Mind
Gallente
Syntech Research and Development
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.07.09 00:04:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Wasted Mind on 09/07/2008 00:04:47
Edited by: Wasted Mind on 09/07/2008 00:04:17
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Mighty Ahti
The biggest issue I see with nano's is that they kill the tank OR gank idealism of most of the ships.
And that is exactly why nanos/speed fits need to be in the game; variety.
Sorry but gotta agree with Mighty on this, atm nano is the do it all wonder. And as far as nano's adding variety i don't agree with that statement at all. I miss the days of giant slug fests with big ships, interceptors and frigs tackling like mad etc. Now your either nano fit, counter nano (which normally involves a couple ships nano fit themselves) and that's about it. There is no variety when most of the gangs you come across these days are nano and that's it.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.09 00:14:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Wasted Mind
Edited by: Wasted Mind on 09/07/2008 00:04:47
Edited by: Wasted Mind on 09/07/2008 00:04:17
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Mighty Ahti
The biggest issue I see with nano's is that they kill the tank OR gank idealism of most of the ships.
And that is exactly why nanos/speed fits need to be in the game; variety.
Sorry but gotta agree with Mighty on this, atm nano is the do it all wonder. And as far as nano's adding variety i don't agree with that statement at all. I miss the days of giant slug fests with big ships, interceptors and frigs tackling like mad etc. Now your either nano fit, counter nano (which normally involves a couple ships nano fit themselves) and that's about it. There is no variety when most of the gangs you come across these days are nano and that's it.
Slugfests are easy to find if you want them.
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Bane Glorious
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Posted - 2008.07.09 01:00:00 -
[157]
I think it is safe for me to say that CCP has a healthy viewpoint on nanoships that the OP would be comfortable with. Not saying any more than that though.
Here's a thumbs up for you anyway, sonny. |
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:36:00 -
[158]
nanos have many weaknesses i encourage players to explore all their option before calling this a lost cause .
because this argument simply implys that players should drop risky dangerous fittings for safer slower fittings .
nanos are risky and dangerous they allow fast escapes but at the expense of true tanking and firepower the nano ship comes pre nerfed .
nanoships simply are for people who like fast and deadly combat by saying nerf it you asking ccp to alienate a sizable portion of the community and a entire race of ships to satisfy the frankly unskilled and unimaginative people out there pvp is about combat and tactics not spider tanking and blobbing
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MirrorGod
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:40:00 -
[159]
TO quote DubanFP:
Quote:
1) Nowhere do you mention the tracking of the firing guns. They are affected by their own transversal too you know. If they can hit you, you can hit them. They will have to slow down to hit you all the same. In fact TRANSVERSAL VELOCITY IS NOT THE REASON PEOPLE NANO AT ALL. You don't even know why people nano yet you complain about them. People nano because it gives them the abillity to disengage from a fight and run at a will. NOT because of an impossible defense. Most speed tanks actually use superior range and falloff to fight rather transversal. So what makes you able to judge them if you don't know why?
2) You mention within 10km which leaves you completely at the mercy of webifiers. No decent nanoship will ever get within 13km. If they do they will be webbed, ganked, and destroyed. Another sign of your ignorance on how speed works.
3) You have never flown a nano-ship. You don't even know how to use one correctly. I can guarentee you will be blown to pieces the first time you try it to someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
4) You conveniently ignore the cost involved on nanoships. A cheap nanoship costs at least 150mil to do at all. An average setup will go for 150-250 mil, and the rare vagabond that can go 11km/s will cost billions with implants. Tell me why a fleet of non-dedicated T1 ships should be able to destroy a much more expensive specialized gang build for survival?
5) You also conveniently ignore the counters to them. For example 2 large nuets can crash a nanoship's cap from 25kms. No cap, no nano. And guess what? Fully insured a Nuet battleship will cost 1/4 of even a cheap true nanoship. 1 Huginn with good support can lay waste to multiple nanoships for the cost of a cheap nanoship.
6) Nanoships are actually weak for the cost offensively and to a lesser extent defensively. If a 150 mil nanoship goes up against a 150 mil battleship "most of the cost is covered by insurance" the nanoship will probebly wind up being forced to run. The main difference is the nanoship can run.
7) Use a nanoship before you complain about them. Then you will realize that they are much more fragile then you think, and the reason you get owned repeatedly is probebly due to player skill rather then the speed fit itself.
I'll also make note of the fact that it's extremely easy to kill nanoships. I'll even make a step-by-step guide on how to do it:
1) Name your character "Garmon".
2) ???
3) Profit!
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:03:00 -
[160]
Nanoes are fine. Here is a example from the Python Cartels big book of epic battles.
Us: 1 Gank Celestis (Me,  3 Light Neutron IIs, 2x LSE, MWD, 2x Damps, Magstabs and PDUs), 1 Blackbird, 1 Griffin, 1 Arbitrator, 1 Moa.
Them: 1 7km/s Vagabond.
Location: Rancer Pipe, some system on the Hek end, some planet.
Vagabond warps to the planet, and starts running around us at a good distance. I don't warp the gang, because I want to make sure everyone is aligned first. The Vagabond makes a pass at us, I order all the Ewar to be put on it, and people to web it if it comes close. The Vagabond makes its first pass without even being able to lock. We warp off to another planet, the Vagabond follows. The Griffin gets seperated from the gang, Vagabond kills the Griffin. The Vagabond keeps trying to get the gang, but horribly fails, because its tracking distruped, ecmd and damped. Eventually our gang warps off to a gate and jumps out.
Now, this vagabond, which probably cost around 200-250 million, was only able to kill a single t1 frigate worth less than a million. The whole gang put together was maybe worth around 30-40 million. All that was required to avoid it was sticking together, and putting ewar on it.
Nano ships aren't overpowered, you just have to know how to deal with them. If you think a gang of pure Battleships, without any of the counters, f.ex. Heavy Neuts, can kill a ship, that got around 100-150 million isk invested in the ability to run away, you are delusional.
Nano ships got 100-150 million isk, invested soley in the ability to run away. Their offense comes from being able to attack from out of gank and web range. Their defense comes from manuvering and staying at the right distance at the right time, as well as escaping when Schitt hits his only fan.
we are recruiting!
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Dragonzchilde
Minmatar
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:11:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Bane Glorious
I think it is safe for me to say that CCP has a healthy viewpoint on nanoships that the OP would be comfortable with. Not saying any more than that though.
Here's a thumbs up for you anyway, sonny.
CCP should concentrate on other items first instead of listening to the whines of people that don't know how to fit a decent counternano.
as has been stated numereous times before the game offers enough countertactics. and if you do want to change something at least improve something instead of nerfing things.
Eve is different from other MMPORG as it really demands skilled pilots or organised groups to achieve something. IF you want an easy game go and play Wow instead of the constant nerf this nerf that whine. By joining Wow you'll probably please both games by increasing the average IQ level |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:23:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Shadowsword
So? Say your enemy does a capital hotdrop. That means he's just put at risk a lot of assets and manpower. What's wrong with them gaining the upper edge with it? What prevent you from having your own cap fleet in reserve to do a counter hotdrop?
Cyno Jammers.
Right, because you can't roam in a system that doesn't have a cyno jammer, can you? YOU, the attacker, chose where you bring the fight. Don't whine if you have a disavantadge when you do it in the heart of the enemy territory.
For roaming even there adapted ships already exist. Interceptors, interdictors, cloakers, non-nanoed HAS and Recons. But of course, ganking with those ships is a tad harder and more risky than doing it with what amount to 9k assault-resist shielded, 300-500 dps interceptors, isn't it?
Quote:
Quote:
Above all, what twisted logic make you think that if you're not willing/able to put as many players and isks on the line, you still should be immune to losing a fight against those who do?
Game play. Its not about immunity its about options. And forcing people to auto-die to superior numbers 100% of the time is simply not good play and will do nothing for the future health and success of eve online.
This logic is so wrong it's mind-boggling. If it is true, then no outnumbered side ever won a fight against a larger foe before nano became largely used. It is the case, right?
If you have the courage of your opinions about "not auto-dying to superior numbers 100% of the time", (read, removing the necessity of commiting to a fight you start) then I expect you to advocate a removal of the warp core stab penalties at the next CSM meeting.
Quote:
Many people have told you how to kill nano ships in this and other threads. But since you are arguing from the fixed territorial debate actually "killing" these ships is irrelevant to you. They can't threaten your infrastructure. Why are you worried? And if its just that you want more kill mails to be harvested by your overwhelming defense trap then I'm not going to be sympathetic. Skirmish warfare is important for eve and the game begins to die when larger forces AUTOMATICALLY kill smaller forces.
The rethoric spouted by the nano-fans is always the same. Yes, they are ways to fit your ship to drive away a single nanoHAS. But to actually get to kill a competent one? That reduce things to only 2 choices: minmatar recons, or superior numbers. That is clearly not enough.
Larger forces killing most of the time a smaller force, if the smaller force let itself be caught within attack range, when all other parameters are equivalent, is a fact of life and pure logic. If you don't accept that, you're better suited to a game where you only fight npcs.
YOU are trying to kill roaming, by making it pointless for the defender to mobilise to defend againt an attack, if they can't hope to catch more than one or two of the attackers.
Quote:
They have a near 100% effective defense on their fixed assets. That isn't the same as automatically killing everything any other player might bring on a roving patrol. If the opposition ops to skirmish its going to do well against an enemy in a fixed defensive line. Thats warfare and its good that eve represents this.
No capital support. Only the defender has that - remember those cyno jammer things right?
You know that little ship called interceptor? The one that has been more or less obsoleted by nano cruisers? That's the ship of choice for roaming behind enemy lines.
I voted for you because you seemed relatively bright, and capable of reasoned argumentation. But I see you prefer to defend your favored play style over the general balance of the game. That or you really are blind.
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Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:31:00 -
[163]
I'm sorry Jade, your argument doesn't wash.
You say nano ships are a good 'counter to the blob'? Well what's the counter to a nano-blob?
We on a fairly regular basis see 30 to 50 man strong nano gangs running around.
How are people supposed to 'skirmish' against that? The only counter is to bring for example 50 battleships - but then the nanos won't engage because of all the usual problems of fighting nanos...and you had better hope those battleships aren't missile ships (yes yes, I know - missiles suck for pvp anyway) cos if so they are doing 0 damage, etc, etc.
I'm sorry Jade but you are flat out wrong. While it was the occasional typhoon or specialist vagabond doing it nano fitting was kinda cool. When EVERYONE does it then it just sucks...and everyone IS doing it.
I see a HAC or recon on scan I basically assume its nanod - in fact I can only remember one occasion so far this year we have run into a non-nanod hac (it died).
I formed a gang a few days ago and when I asked what ships we had in gang of 9 people 3 had brought rapiers - because we KNOW its going to be nanos. Yes we can counter them but its still crap. Its no fun to play against, so you end up having to go nano yourself to have fun, so the variety and options and possibilities in Eve all vanish because you are basically left at:
Nano
Sniping BS (for specialist uses)
Capital
As the only real options for 0.0 combat
Zarch AlDain
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My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
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Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:33:00 -
[164]
Oh, and there are other options to counter the blob that people used to use.
For example: Snipers with snipe spots, skirmishing.
Burn eden style tactics with interdictors, cloaks - picking your targets.
Packs of recons.
etc etc
But all of those have been obsoleted by the swiss army knife of eve - the nano ship.
Zarch AlDain
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My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:37:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Inertial
Nanoes are fine. Here is a example from the Python Cartels big book of epic battles.
Us: 1 Gank Celestis (Me, 3 Light Neutron IIs, 2x LSE, MWD, 2x Damps, Magstabs and PDUs), 1 Blackbird, 1 Griffin, 1 Arbitrator, 1 Moa.
Them: 1 7km/s Vagabond.
Location: Rancer Pipe, some system on the Hek end, some planet.
Vagabond warps to the planet, and starts running around us at a good distance. I don't warp the gang, because I want to make sure everyone is aligned first. The Vagabond makes a pass at us, I order all the Ewar to be put on it, and people to web it if it comes close. The Vagabond makes its first pass without even being able to lock. We warp off to another planet, the Vagabond follows. The Griffin gets seperated from the gang, Vagabond kills the Griffin. The Vagabond keeps trying to get the gang, but horribly fails, because its tracking distruped, ecmd and damped. Eventually our gang warps off to a gate and jumps out.
Now, this vagabond, which probably cost around 200-250 million, was only able to kill a single t1 frigate worth less than a million. The whole gang put together was maybe worth around 30-40 million. All that was required to avoid it was sticking together, and putting ewar on it.
Nano ships aren't overpowered, you just have to know how to deal with them. If you think a gang of pure Battleships, without any of the counters, f.ex. Heavy Neuts, can kill a ship, that got around 100-150 million isk invested in the ability to run away, you are delusional.
Nano ships got 100-150 million isk, invested soley in the ability to run away. Their offense comes from being able to attack from out of gank and web range. Their defense comes from manuvering and staying at the right distance at the right time, as well as escaping when Schitt hits his only fan.
Dude, he was alone, there was five of you, including 3 e-war boats. How can you use a fight like that to discuss balance?
Isk cost has NEVER been a valid argument for discussing balance. 15 pilots in T1 frigs could easily kill a Marauder, etc...
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Dianalexia
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Posted - 2008.07.09 09:53:00 -
[166]
Yes, nerf nanos.
- Nerf the ability to fight alone and favor the mighty blob.
- Nerf player intelligence for Zerg tactics. We don't need roaming gangs into our nullsec ratting opperation. Without nanos it will be easy to make a megablob against anyone and kill them if they dare to venture into our space. Of course, they will have the option of megablobbing too.
- Nerf nanos for easy gate camping. Traveling through nullsec? Well, make a blob if you want to do it.
It's so amazing how people ask for more tactical options and the ability to use one's wits but cry for help when someone else use these things 
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.09 10:02:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Shadowsword
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Dude, he was alone, there was five of you, including 4 e-war boats. How can you use a fight like that to discuss balance?
Isk cost has NEVER been a valid argument for discussing balance. 15 pilots in T1 frigs could easily kill a Marauder, etc...
That is not the point.
The point is we had the tools to make sure he couldn't touch us, despite the fact that we couldn't kill him, he was unable to kill us unless we slipped up.
The point was that there are counters to nanos (counter as in, rendering them useless, not killing them.)
As far as the 15 frigs could easily kill a Marauder. Do you think 15 Bantams with mining lasers could easily kill a Marauder? I don't think so, because the 15 Bantams with mining lasers wouldn't have the right tools. Point beeing, that:
If you don't bring the right tools for the job, how can you expect to get the job done?
we are recruiting!
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.09 11:30:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Inertial
Originally by: Shadowsword
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Dude, he was alone, there was five of you, including 4 e-war boats. How can you use a fight like that to discuss balance?
Isk cost has NEVER been a valid argument for discussing balance. 15 pilots in T1 frigs could easily kill a Marauder, etc...
That is not the point.
The point is we had the tools to make sure he couldn't touch us, despite the fact that we couldn't kill him, he was unable to kill us unless we slipped up.
The point was that there are counters to nanos (counter as in, rendering them useless, not killing them.)
As far as the 15 frigs could easily kill a Marauder. Do you think 15 Bantams with mining lasers could easily kill a Marauder? I don't think so, because the 15 Bantams with mining lasers wouldn't have the right tools. Point beeing, that:
If you don't bring the right tools for the job, how can you expect to get the job done?
You're wrong. When speaking about balance you have to consider an equal amount of players on each side. Because there's nothing that say in the game mechanics that this side has XX size limit and that one YY. If there's no 1v1 balance there's no way a 30v30 is going to be balanced, and so on.
So, alone against a single nano ship, what options to kill it do you have? There's only 2: nano yourself, and be even faster, or fly a nanoed huginn-rapier.
How to fix nanos? First a nerf to the MWD module. The very fact that it's an absolute must-have mod in sub-capital pvp is a clear proof that it's overpowered. With it MWDing hacs can reach back a gate they just used, even with XX interceptors to web them, and do the same thing on the other side, rince and repeat, which is pretty ridiculous. Nerf them from 550% to, say, 350%, and it will still be an usefull mod. Just not a must-have anymore
If you look back at all the overpowered ships and setups that got nerfed over the years, MWD were in cause in most half the cases.
Then, replace the sig radius penalty on large shield extenders by a speed penalty to force players to choose between speed tanking or buffer tanking, but not both at the same time.
Last, nerf pylocarbs so they're more in line with other rigs, that is about 60-70% as effective that the module they're supposed to replace.
With that, speed tanking will still work, at least on hte ships that are supposed to do it, but it won't be superior anymore to conventionnal tanking, AND pylocarbs won't cost 50M anymore, AND afterburners (who could use a boost, too) will start being an alternative again.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.07.09 11:55:00 -
[169]
This is what Jade should be saying...
Quote:
I do realize there is a wide opinion based on the use of nano ships and their speed tanks. I've played this game for a long time and have seen how both arguments do make valid points. The CSM is going to take into account everyone's thoughts and try to work out what can be a 'happy medium' among the player base.
I think there are several options for a change in this matter, however, the direction we will take will have to make changes without breaking the need for nano ships, but at the same time bringing them down to be more in-line with all other forms of tanking and specialty ships. Please stay tuned as the CSM council discusses options.
Of course, Jade doesn't speak like that... instead it's more like...
Quote:
Stop whining you ninny little carebears! I don't want to play like you losers and your F1-F8 setups. We need a ship that can take on massive blobs without any risks. You blob blobbers just want to blob up space and win win against anything. You carebears... you... you CAREBEARS!
I'm an elite player with an elite mind. I know all, they rest of you dorks serve no purpose unless you can nano. Eve is nano! MORK&MINDY! Nanu nanu!
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.07.09 12:27:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
And you are basing that off facts? ROFL.
3 power blocks, mindless sov system, unbearable game breaking lag due to the ability of megafail alliances to field 500+ gangs, node crashing nonsense, all of these problems are far moar important than a few newbies getting their arses shot off because they haven't figured out game mechanics
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
You have more to learn if you think nano's are balanced in line with other tanks.
I tend to fly rapiers and falcons, i have no problem with ze nano, since my webs go 40km(T2) and my jams sit at about 15. How do you do what you do so poorly?
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
There's a reason why the majority OF PEOPLE WHO KILL ME fly nano's...
Fixed that for you, now it makes sense
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
cuz they are overpowered and easily used to engage and/or run at will. No other ship has that tactic along with the best tank in the game.
Last time i checked, non capitals can de aggro and jump, non-supercaps can dock and hug stations, and fast ships do what fast ships do, run away. Now if you believe there needs to be a contract for PVP where both sides must stay on the field till total hell death and cannot disengage, your a very confused child of warfare from the enlightment age, hardly the type of role play for internet spaceships
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
I suggest you re-examine yourself before another unrealistic post. Your idea of Eve is flawed greatly... its kinda like you don't even play.
Is this char, Pithecantropus, a main char? or just a forum warrior. I can always set up a demonstration for you on my very realistic character if youĈd like
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Needa3
Minmatar
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2008.07.09 12:56:00 -
[171]
missles bad for pvp?
hmm seems BE is doing like 99% of their killing in missle boats
anti nano = limited to minnie ships?
i don't think so.
Try engaging a sesnsor jam and neuting fitted BS and you nano ship won't be able to do a thing...; on the other hand i'll guess that will offer an opportunity to nerf caldari for their jamming and domi's for their neuting capacity
instead of whining people should
- fit their ship decently
- think more tactical instead of i-blob-so-i-win
- start working as a team instead of looking for individual killboard "honour" whoring
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.09 14:34:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Needa3
missles bad for pvp?
hmm seems BE is doing like 99% of their killing in missle boats
anti nano = limited to minnie ships?
i don't think so.
Try engaging a sesnsor jam and neuting fitted BS and you nano ship won't be able to do a thing...; on the other hand i'll guess that will offer an opportunity to nerf caldari for their jamming and domi's for their neuting capacity
instead of whining people should
- fit their ship decently
- think more tactical instead of i-blob-so-i-win
- start working as a team instead of looking for individual killboard "honour" whoring
Once again the nano fans proves their amazing capacity to fill their ears with their thumbs and shout the same craptastic arguments, to avoid having to anwser what they have no argument to defend.
The issue is not with preventing a nanoship to kill you. The issue is with actually holding down long enough to kill it.
Remember the days of the 95% resist scorpion? Shouting that it was fine because it couldn't kill you if you had a good tank only made you an idiot. That hasn't changed.
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MorsusMihi Stinks
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Posted - 2008.07.09 14:46:00 -
[173]
now tell me how a vaga would run if you can keep it webbed for like 100km
imo that is more than enough time to kill it or are you lacking skills that bad. I agree with Needa and some of the others. Cut the whining and play the game
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Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.07.09 15:23:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Shadowsword
The issue is not with preventing a nanoship to kill you. The issue is with actually holding down long enough to kill it.
sweet jesus, you put cyno gens on vagas and you hawt drop 45 carriers onto the nano gang, lag+web+stupidity=dead nanos, comeon now i thought you knew that already
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Efdi
Minmatar
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.07.09 15:49:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Shadowsword
So, alone against a single nano ship, what options to kill it do you have? There's only 2: nano yourself, and be even faster, or fly a nanoed huginn-rapier.
Welp.
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Yes, I am an alt. No, I can't post with my main; he's forum banned. Yes, I will be happy to smack you with my main when I'm unbanned. |
Attas
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Posted - 2008.07.09 15:52:00 -
[176]
disagreed!!
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.07.09 16:26:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
Irrelevant stuff.
Your perception is greatly flawed and far overblown. LOL.
This community has had enough with nanos. It's not about the ships we all fly, the tactics used, the counters, the blobs, or the costs. It's about the pure advantage big nanodweebs have over the rest of Eve. Period. Why are you so afraid of a nerf? Afraid of changes? Eve has changed time and time again, and THAT is what keeps the game going. The pot has settled and nano's are on top, its time to mix it up again, rebalance, and make this game yet again best for the ENTIRE community. I'm all for constant rebalances, otherwise we'll lean too far to one side and topple. Do you want an Eve with a majority of nano ships and nano counter? No. No. I hope you're not that naive.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Grann Thefauto
Minmatar
Running with Knives
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Posted - 2008.07.09 18:22:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
nanodweebs
I just wanted to quote this because it made me laugh.
I disagree, nanos are powerful, but like Jade said, tactically, you're fairly limited with a nano gang. If you have a well balanced non-nano gang against a nano gang of the same size the nano ships are pretty much relegated to picking off stragglers. With non-nano blobs bringing appropriate anti-nano defense nano ships will generally run. The only reason nanos will get decent kills is because they exploit holes in planning and defense.
Nanos really only have the advantage in that its way easier to put together a homogeneous fleet that can do one thing really well. Non-nano/mixed gangs however require a lot more organizing to achieve balance, so naturally their ripe for being exploited by very focused gangs of nanos/stealth bombers/snipers or whatever their particular hole is.
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.09 20:46:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Needa3
missles bad for pvp?
hmm seems BE is doing like 99% of their killing in missle boats
anti nano = limited to minnie ships?
i don't think so.
Try engaging a sesnsor jam and neuting fitted BS and you nano ship won't be able to do a thing...; on the other hand i'll guess that will offer an opportunity to nerf caldari for their jamming and domi's for their neuting capacity
instead of whining people should
- fit their ship decently
- think more tactical instead of i-blob-so-i-win
- start working as a team instead of looking for individual killboard "honour" whoring
Once again the nano fans proves their amazing capacity to fill their ears with their thumbs and shout the same craptastic arguments, to avoid having to anwser what they have no argument to defend.
The issue is not with preventing a nanoship to kill you. The issue is with actually holding down long enough to kill it.
Remember the days of the 95% resist scorpion? Shouting that it was fine because it couldn't kill you if you had a good tank only made you an idiot. That hasn't changed.
If nanoships(HACs, recons) had the same disengagement possibilty of Battleships, why would anyone fly them???
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Jasmine Dixon
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Posted - 2008.07.09 23:19:00 -
[180]
Quote:
If you have a well balanced non-nano gang against a nano gang of the same size the nano ships are pretty much relegated to picking off stragglers. With non-nano blobs bringing appropriate anti-nano defense nano ships will generally run. The only reason nanos will get decent kills is because they exploit holes in planning and defense.
I agree with this, because it describes very well what happens novadays all around the universe.
If you know that a nano-gang is coming you have a varity of options.
1.) You can't build up something that nanos would fear....so you stay docked
2.) you build up a even bigger blop then the nano blop which is coming.... so they won't engage you or burn away from you after a few secs
3.) you build up a gang of nano ships yourself, which is though possible not realy an option for the every day use in defending your home systems ... and even if you can build up something like this, the original nano gang will maybe not engage at all or if they engage you will get only singel ships
What is this leading to at the end ? In some cases you won't get a fight at all and if you get a fight the you can kill only one or two of them until the rest burns away or warps off.
I'm not realy sure what to do about this. Just nerf nanos is not a good option, because its fun flying them and they are a good strategic option. On the other hand it is absolutely no fun to defend against them ! And this is the point when I think that ccp should look at this, add some counters or make the ones already existing more effective or whatever. Because the people on the defending side have in most cases just no fun with this at all. Don't get me wrong there should be no anti nano i-win button, but you should have the possibility to takle the whole gang down and kill them all if you do it right.
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