Originally by: Sokratesz

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Torpedoes are fired from siege launchers, have no use in PVE and are mostly effective against battlecruisers and larger, but even then benefit greatly from a targetpainter or targetpainter drones.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Torpedoes are fired from siege launchers, have no use in PVE and are mostly effective against battlecruisers and larger, but even then benefit greatly from a targetpainter or targetpainter drones.

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Originally by: Ecky X

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Without any range bonuses, torps don't hit past 20km.

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Originally by: Pteranodon

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Originally by: Ecky X

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Without any range bonuses, torps don't hit past 20km.

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Would you not train these for maximum effect & range as part of the requirements to use them for PVE?

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Edited by: Sokratesz on 16/06/2008 16:16:02

Originally by: Pteranodon

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Originally by: Ecky X

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Without any range bonuses, torps don't hit past 20km.

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Would you not train these for maximum effect & range as part of the requirements to use them for PVE?

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With max skills your range on a Golem is 30km, closer to 25 in fact taking your own and targets movement into account. Good luck closing in to that space while tanking their dps. The speed gained in killing the rats will be offset by the time you spend running around getting in range.

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Originally by: Tsanse Kinske

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Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.

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Originally by: Gypsio III

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Not practical? Whenever I've read a Golem thread, the torp fit has seemed to be the standard fit for L4s. From playing on EFT, the range doesn't seem to be much of a problem, and Jav torps are cheap relative to faction torps, which are often recommended for Golem.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Javelins are needlessly expensive and do only a bit more dps than cruise missiles. Afterburner will take ages to get in range and MWD doesn't work in most missions, the 5% missile implants are very expensive and missile rigs gimp your fit.

In short: not practical.

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Originally by: supr3m3justic3

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Even if you could hit past 30k your target painter wont....so whats the point?

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Originally by: supr3m3justic3

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Even if you could hit past 30k your target painter wont....so whats the point?

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Originally by: Pteranodon

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So- would I be better sticking with Cruise missiles on the Golem? as my principal interest for this ship is safer PVE with a good tank.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Xaen, swap an invul for a boost amp, does much more.

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Originally by: Arazel Chainfire

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I'm sorry, but torps work great for PvE - much better than cruise IMO.

However, to use them effectively you must have at minimum 5/4/4 range skills (only works with the raven hull, missile bombardment gives 50% flight time, missile projection gives 50% speed, and caldari BS gives 50% missile speed). Anything less than those skills and you just won't have the range to be effective. 5/5/5 is definately something that you want to aim for asap. The other thing that is needed is t2 seige launchers, for multiple reasons.

The max range of torps without any rigs (plain t1) is 30km. Javelin torps extend that range to between 40 and 45km. However, you can also add 2 missile flight speed rigs, and one missile flight time rig (on a golem, just use 2 flight speed), and you can extend javelin torp range to over 60km. Add in implants and that range is bumped up to almost 70km - more than enough for any mission. However, this means that you need to make some sacrifices in your setup.

The first thing that you need to remember is that you cannot have a permatank - it just doesn't work (possible exception with complex medium boosters, but I'm not positive about that). You will also want at least one target painter to be able to hit battleships for full damage, and increase your damage against smaller targets. Don't use torps against frigs/destroyers, and preferably not against cruisers unless you have run out of other targets. Also, against anything smaller than a battleship use javelins because they have a smaller explosion radius (350 as opposed to 450). It is also up to you on whether or not you want to have an afterburner. This however would leave you with few mids indeed to run a tank.

On a golem, I would go with torps long before i would go with cruise. CNR i would perfer cruise due to fitting problems though. Another thing is that the golem has better cap than a CNR without using cap modules, and has an extra mid in which you can put another cap module or a cap booster. If you go with the cap booster, you'll also have a very large cargo bay to hold extra charges and torp ammo. That being said, I run a cap boosted torp raven, and as long as I pay attention to what I'm doing and don't grab full stage aggro I have enough cap and ammo to run any lvl 4 that I've come across.

-Arazel

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Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Javelins are needlessly expensive and do only a bit more dps than cruise missiles. Afterburner will take ages to get in range and MWD doesn't work in most missions, the 5% missile implants are very expensive and missile rigs gimp your fit.

In short: not practical.

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You just don't seem to have much of a clue about professional mission running. Torps work perfectly fine and putting cruise on a Golem is a total waste. Jav torps are cheap, the golem has only four launchers and no RoF bonus, so ammo cost it completely negligible even with faction torps. And I actually fire more faction torps than jav torps on my missions even without intentionally burning towards the NPCs, which is indeed usually an excercise in futility, even if just because it screws up your wreck clumps. It all comes down to knowing the missions in and out and position your ship accordingly. Of course, for that an AB is quite helpful.
And it might have something to do with what race you run for, people keep on mentioning missions with all NPCs 70+km away (which would indeed be kinda impractical for a torp golem), but I hardly ever get anything like that running for Amarr...

And everything you write gives me the impression that you don't know that you can actually switch ammo during the mission...

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Edited by: Sokratesz on 16/06/2008 16:16:02

Originally by: Pteranodon

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Originally by: Ecky X

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Without any range bonuses, torps don't hit past 20km.

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Would you not train these for maximum effect & range as part of the requirements to use them for PVE?

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DURRRRRRRRRRRR

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Originally by: Xaen

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Tell me, how do you hit the 4-5 batteries in AE room 3 or 4 that are 70km away in a torp ship? How do you hit the ones in the bonus room that are doing all that thermal damage and are 65km+ away? How do you tank it without a cap injector? Warp out eight times? There goes all the time you saved by doing higher damage with torps.

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Originally by: Xaen

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Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Javelins are needlessly expensive and do only a bit more dps than cruise missiles. Afterburner will take ages to get in range and MWD doesn't work in most missions, the 5% missile implants are very expensive and missile rigs gimp your fit.

In short: not practical.

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You just don't seem to have much of a clue about professional mission running. Torps work perfectly fine and putting cruise on a Golem is a total waste. Jav torps are cheap, the golem has only four launchers and no RoF bonus, so ammo cost it completely negligible even with faction torps. And I actually fire more faction torps than jav torps on my missions even without intentionally burning towards the NPCs, which is indeed usually an excercise in futility, even if just because it screws up your wreck clumps. It all comes down to knowing the missions in and out and position your ship accordingly. Of course, for that an AB is quite helpful.
And it might have something to do with what race you run for, people keep on mentioning missions with all NPCs 70+km away (which would indeed be kinda impractical for a torp golem), but I hardly ever get anything like that running for Amarr...

And everything you write gives me the impression that you don't know that you can actually switch ammo during the mission...

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lmao @ "professional mission running"

And you don't get a lot of missions with rats past 70km? Ahh yes, you run amarr. Try caldari where there are several spawns pushing 100km. Have fun slowboating around.

Tell me, how do you hit the 4-5 batteries in AE room 3 or 4 that are 70km away in a torp ship? How do you hit the ones in the bonus room that are doing all that thermal damage and are 65km+ away? How do you tank it without a cap injector? Warp out eight times? There goes all the time you saved by doing higher damage with torps.

I've done pretty extensive EFT research, torps DO do more damage, even against cruisers, but if the rats aren't coming toward you they're completely impractical. I'll even concede that t2/faction torps are more practical on a golem than anything else, but you're still burning a lot of ISK for the supposed gains. And you have to completely gimp your tanking ability to fit torps and push them out far enough.

I'd much prefer to sit in one spot killing everything, and never have to warp out, thanks. My cruise golem does this all fantastically. Screw the target painter, the cycle time much longer than the launcher cycle time is a PITA. I'd much rather protect my 800M ISK ship with another hardener.

It's an efficient ISK printing machine, not an interceptor. If you have to fit an afterburner, you're doing it wrong.

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Originally by: Arazel Chainfire

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The max range of torps without any rigs (plain t1) is 30km. Javelin torps extend that range to between 40 and 45km. However, you can also add 2 missile flight speed rigs, and one missile flight time rig (on a golem, just use 2 flight speed),...

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Originally by: NoNah

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My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.

Originally by: Xaen

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And you don't get a lot of missions with rats past 70km? Ahh yes, you run amarr. Try caldari where there are several spawns pushing 100km. Have fun slowboating around.

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Quote:

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It's an efficient ISK printing machine, not an interceptor. If you have to fit an afterburner, you're doing it wrong.

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