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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Zircon Dasher
Zirconia Trade Group
78
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Posted - 2012.03.13 01:58:00 -
[331] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: Turn Incursions off for two months, see what happens to the PLEX market. My prediction is that the PLEX market will die in the arse (that's a technical term meaning, "suffer a severe correction in price position"), and along with that you'll find a large number of unsubscriptions due to people leaving the game who were only playing to be part of space raiding guilds.
UNless there is another Unholy Rage, you and I both know that PLEX prices will have dropped noticably in a month, with further drop in price another 2months after that. So the challenge is kind of rigged. |
gfldex
370
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Posted - 2012.03.13 02:10:00 -
[332] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:You're aware that we're making adjustments to Incursions right?
On second thought, no I actually don't know that. Might be because you are not *beep*ing telling us.
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
249
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Posted - 2012.03.13 02:11:00 -
[333] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:I kept a list of goods I normally trade from early Dec 2011. I haven't played since then until just now.
Prices across the board are up around 20%. By this rate, the price of everything will double in a year. Is CCP looking at ways of managing isk flow or should I start converting my ISK into "hard" assets like PLEX or trit?
you kept a list for of a few items from the market?
and you kept them for a whole 3 months?
wow.
Now keep a list of everything, and keep it for 3 years. then come back with your thoughts.
You'd be very surprised on what kind of isk-making opportunities you can miss out on when you don't think large-scale enough.
Things get cheaper, and things get more expensive. Sometimes due to changes in the game mechanics, or sometimes due to market manipulation by players. But it doesn't happen on such a small scale time-wise.
Eve isn't dying, and not everything is more expensive than it was 2 years ago.
Save the Miners! |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
261
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Posted - 2012.03.13 02:13:00 -
[334] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tenebrae Syrennis wrote: [/Facepalm]
You still haven't learned, have you...
Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.
19% (8.6T of 45.4) Kile Kitmoore wrote: If true, then how can you possibly not see this as a problem, especially as there is no commensurate ISK/resource-sink for those bounties? Please, don't insult my intelligence.
Are the LP stores not being counted as a sink?
They are--just not enough of one.
In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
261
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Posted - 2012.03.13 02:18:00 -
[335] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Tenebrae Syrennis wrote: [/Facepalm]
You still haven't learned, have you...
Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.
facepalm indeed
So whose are the true numbers, then?
I do not, and never will again trust anything coming from CCP, ever, to be quite brutally forthright about it--you can thank ::18 months:: for that, and what it led to...
In irae, veritas. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
158
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:21:00 -
[336] - Quote
gfldex wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:You're aware that we're making adjustments to Incursions right? On second thought, no I actually don't know that. Might be because you are not *beep*ing telling us.
there was a feedback and suggestions thread some time ago |
Endeavour Starfleet
688
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:23:00 -
[337] - Quote
Xorv wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote: I'll leave the details to the devblog but I'd say there is a chance the changes might be (among other things) exactly what you wrote.
I certainly hope the "among other things" addresses the extreme risk vs reward imbalance that High Sec Incursions caused. Inflation is just one of the many problems your development foray into Themeparkish PvE raids has caused
There is no extreme imbalance. Especially when you have nullsec alliances being run with true risk free botting. You can make more than incursions with multiple accounts with the anoms as well.
The only "Extreme Imbalance" is in your mind. Or in the fact that the way things are set up heavy favors RMT and nullbearing up. People go into incursions tired of the bullcrap of nullsec. Such as defending moon goo or RMT. Maybe after seeing if Inferno turns nullsec into a massive warzone again where bots cant thrive can we talk about incursions being imbalanced.
*Awaits* Speech about "Defending the alliance" or "We have to have mandatory CTAs or they wont show up at 4AM!1" |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
252
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:28:00 -
[338] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:So 80%ish of all the ISK income comes from rats?
But, wouldn't rat bounty income have remained roughly stable over the last few years? Why would that cause prices to explode? Because people fail at arithmetics and dont understand that 16% increase isk generation(incursions) can actually mean multiplying by a huge factor isk that stays in the economy Except that "some" people fail to realize in this very same topic CCP said Incursions arent the problem. Tippia wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:People crying left and right on the forums about so called Incursion inflation when in reality the amount from bounties is astronomically higher a good chunk of that due to nullsec botting. GǪexcept that three times higher is not GǣastronomicalGǥ and that the inflation existed before incursions. So guess what happens when incursions are piled on top of it all? Should I quote CCP about Incursions again? They aren't the issue here.
CCP have been wrong before and I strongly suspect that may be the case this time too, so keep repeating them parrot fashion but time will tell, not you. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1046
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:29:00 -
[339] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote: Eve isn't dying, and not everything is more expensive than it was 2 years ago.
I'm really hard pressed to think of something that isn't more expensive now than it was then. Maybe something like named MWDs that had the loot table turned on its head and now drops like candy? But that was more than 2 years ago I think...
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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gfldex
370
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:46:00 -
[340] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:there was a feedback and suggestions thread some time ago
No, no, no, you got that wrong. The feedback thread is for _us_ to tell _him_. What we did. Plenty. Then a few month passed by and now he is asking me if I know. What I don't. Because _he_ didn't tell _us_ what he thinks.
And we all know how that will end. There will be a dev blog that requires approval Of His Holiness. That then needs translation (takes only a week). Then there will be The Truth Revealed. The CSM may nor may not be informed but what does that help the playerbase as they are Struck With Lightning By His Holiness when they break the oath ... err ... the NDA.
Then there will be forum rubble. And then there will be Sisi rubble. And a few knowledgeable will speak up and go silent again, unheared. Then there will be TQ rubble. AND THEN THERE WILL BE FORUM RUBBLE AGAIN. Unless it's a massive ISK printing event. Then there will be ISK printing like mad (hello original lvl4 missions? hello slightly bugged 0.0 complexes?). AND THEN THERE WILL BE FORUM RUBBLE.
It's all the time the same for the last 7 years. Well, there was a time when CCP listened (I know what you did back then in Stain, Oveur!) but then t20 happened. This is why we can't have nice things and all be friends.
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
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Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
174
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Posted - 2012.03.13 02:53:00 -
[341] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.
That in fact makes the most sense. The Signature Nerf was paired with an anomoly buff. After that change there was no need to scan down signature Plex, you could do it all from Onboard. It hinged on the desire of the community to prevent ISK making and that desire never came about. Me being willing and motivated to sit in hostile space and lock down thier PvE Ops. Because that never happened, PvE Ops could be run without the PvP glass barriers.
The trouble with building your game on griefer mechanics is, griefers want attention more than anything else and AFK cloaking a system 26 jumps from high sec won't get them near as much attention as blowing up Hulks in .5 high-sec. You over estimated the griefers willingness to work for thier grief. |
Grumpy Owly
313
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 02:56:00 -
[342] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Now if you can't see that Incursions are the major issue impacting inflation, you have rocks in your head. Yes, null sec bounties pay out almost an order of magnitude more ISK into the system, but there are an order of magnitude more people participating in that market. Focussing on where the bulk of the ISK is coming from will result in more null sec denizens being pushed into hisec ISK-grinding to fund their play style. The focus needs to be on the activities that result in the greatest generation of ISK/hr per participant.
That couldn't be further from the truth in addressing the inflation issue. Keeping to the "nerf incursions" propoganda will only keep inflation as a problem if not correctly addressed. We need to ensure that the main problems associated with inflation are addressed.
Quote:Turn Incursions off for two months, see what happens to the PLEX market. My prediction is that the PLEX market will die in the arse (that's a technical term meaning, "suffer a severe correction in price position"), and along with that you'll find a large number of unsubscriptions due to people leaving the game who were only playing to be part of space raiding guilds.
Plex prices as such can't be limited to just being influenced by incurions. CCP have identified in this thread that incursion faucets are not the main ones. That when combined with the recognised volume of plex traded is more than the number of incursion runners should give a clear indicator that incursions shouldnt be used as a scapegoat for plex issues alone and other things contribute to this issue, if not moreso.
Likewise we saw a plex spike "co-incide" with the crucible announcement so as such the "spike" rather than a trending due to incursion use was likley due to enthusasm with Crucible and returning players combined with some market fixing that caused the "spike".
So lets turn off null sec bounties for a month and see how much that effects plex purchasing. As that from your own confirmation its a different order of magnitude more problematic. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
gfldex
370
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:04:00 -
[343] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Are the LP stores not being counted as a sink?
They can if ppl cache in. There are plenty who spend money so fast that they don't got the ISK to hand it over in a CONCORD station for not so shinies. There is little reason to get anything from the CONCORD LP store anyway. It's most likely better to change them to some other LP and go for ammo (or some stuff I wont name in public kekeke).
You need to find a buyer if you want to sell. And twice the base price for 1% more ompf ain't that hot.
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:11:00 -
[344] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Are the LP stores not being counted as a sink? They can if ppl cache in. There are plenty who spend money so fast that they don't got the ISK to hand it over in a CONCORD station for not so shinies. There is little reason to get anything from the CONCORD LP store anyway. It's most likely better to change them to some other LP and go for ammo (or some stuff I wont name in public kekeke). You need to find a buyer if you want to sell. And twice the base price for 1% more ompf ain't that hot. I'm not claiming it's a perfect system, but really, with the ability to exchange LP it seems all reasonable measures are being made to ensure there is some semi desirable way yo spend the LP. Seemed somewhat dishonest to claim there was "no associated sync." |
Ryan Startalker Zhang
Zervas Aeronautics Otas Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:28:00 -
[345] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:The real solution is not to try to pin the nerf to one specific area of the game, as there isn't a specific mechanic causing the inflation singularly. It's to do an all around slight nerf to income, which will result in a net no-change to people's wealth.
The thing that's not helping is people trying to bandwagon this as another nerf-highsec thread. The solution is to get serious about botting with more incentive to go PVP. #1 Encourage reporting of blue bots. #2 More wormholes into nullsec so the shield wall can be bypassed easier. #3 One time payment for Clone grade (Who wants to PVP defensively when it costs a ton for an experienced player to replace his clone grade? You get alot more isk sink from his ship going pop) #4 Implementation of a vastly modular POS and Corp system to isolate thieves and spiez. (To give smaller groups without 20 POS a chance)
Nerf Vanguard sites AND do this at the same time. Or is that too much to ask? |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
377
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:29:00 -
[346] - Quote
giant thread about inflation is giant. What do you want from us CCP? Blood? Fix incursions, fix LP, fix missions, buff mining! |
Ryan Startalker Zhang
Zervas Aeronautics Otas Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:34:00 -
[347] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:No, that's incorrect. The massive jumps we see in terms of isk almost always come when we make adjustments to anomalies. The last change we did was pretty drastically increase the isk floor across the board on anomalies and the isk coming into the economy jumped after that.
This. |
gfldex
370
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:35:00 -
[348] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I'm not claiming it's a perfect system, but really, with the ability to exchange LP it seems all reasonable measures are being made to ensure there is some semi desirable way yo spend the LP.
It did work out until the farming agreements where made and Incursions prolonged artificially. The result was an inflation of CONCORD LP from 6000ISK/LP at the beginning to 800ISK/LP with exchange to ammo.
There are simply not enough buyers for named capital guns that are a whopping 10% better then T1. The excessive high LP reward at the beginning mostly came from market bots who (by design) have no idea how much new items are worth. The income one can get from Incursions are actually quite bad right now compared to the time when only a selected few could run them reasonably well.
I never thought any game designer could beat the *beep* up of the original lvl4 missions. You should have seen the mineral market back then. :)
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Ryan Startalker Zhang
Zervas Aeronautics Otas Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:39:00 -
[349] - Quote
The thing is, a lot of highsec residents don't even have a remote idea about what anomaly is, as it's not accessible in highsec empire space, and they certainly do not care about forum drama.
Incursion, on the other hand, do attract tons of attention and nullsec residents can easily set up alts to join in the same faucet (where, in the case of nullsec anomaly, is entirely inaccessible to highsec residence, due to the blobing 0.0 alliances), thus the awareness and whining is much more "under the spotlight".
Would be really interesting to see numbers on nullsec anomalies bounty income. And of course, progress on batting botters. |
Endeavour Starfleet
689
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 03:50:00 -
[350] - Quote
Ryan Startalker Zhang wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Kusanagi Kasuga wrote:The real solution is not to try to pin the nerf to one specific area of the game, as there isn't a specific mechanic causing the inflation singularly. It's to do an all around slight nerf to income, which will result in a net no-change to people's wealth.
The thing that's not helping is people trying to bandwagon this as another nerf-highsec thread. The solution is to get serious about botting with more incentive to go PVP. #1 Encourage reporting of blue bots. #2 More wormholes into nullsec so the shield wall can be bypassed easier. #3 One time payment for Clone grade (Who wants to PVP defensively when it costs a ton for an experienced player to replace his clone grade? You get alot more isk sink from his ship going pop) #4 Implementation of a vastly modular POS and Corp system to isolate thieves and spiez. (To give smaller groups without 20 POS a chance) Nerf Vanguard sites AND do this at the same time. Or is that too much to ask?
How do you assure the blue bots get reported tho? You see if its just a one way "Nerf Vanguards" That will only fix a small part of the issue. And blue bots will continue to use SRP and other crap to keep members from clicking report bot.
There needs to be incentive for the people to go back and report the bots. |
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Grumpy Owly
313
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Posted - 2012.03.13 04:09:00 -
[351] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:#3 One time payment for Clone grade (Who wants to PVP defensively when it costs a ton for an experienced player to replace his clone grade? You get alot more isk sink from his ship going pop)
List of isk Faucets and Sinks (courtesy of Tippia):
Faucets:
NPC bounties NPC buy orders Mission rewards Insurance payout GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods Character creation
Sinks:
Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax NPC sell orders NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties Wardecs Sovereignty fees PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices) Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits CSPA Charges Smuggling fines GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement Character deletion
Popping a ship only hurts the players wallet and removes mineral assests, it is not an ISK sink to the game since the purchasing of ships and mods/goods has already transfered the ISK associated with it onto the relevant trader you purchased them from.
If anything if insurance is involved it potentially adds to the pot making it a faucet.
(Assuming that the ship and items were not built from scratch in which case its a minor sink due to the industrial costs and however you want to apportion investment into the process like BPs and infrastructure which are certainly not as apparent as cloning costs anyhow I'd say) Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1031
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 05:01:00 -
[352] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Plex prices as such can't be limited to just being influenced by incur ions.
The rate of inflation of PLEX prices rose steeply when Incursions were introduced and has maintained that new, higher rate over that period of time.
Grumpy Owly wrote:CCP have identified in this thread that incursion faucets are not the main ones. That when combined with the recognised volume of plex traded is more than the number of incursion runners should give a clear indicator that incursions shouldnt be used as a scapegoat for plex issues alone and other things contribute to this issue, if not mores.
As you would have read in my post, had you actually read it, the economic pressure on PLEX prices comes from individuals with large volumes of ISK to spend, not from large groups who individually have a little extra ISK to spend. Sure, about 8 times more ISK came from NPC bounties. Go have a look at how many pilots are collecting those bounties, I'm sure it's more than 8 times as many pilots as are running Incursions.
Grumpy Owly wrote:Likewise we saw a plex spike "co-incide" with the crucible announcement so as such the "spike" rather than a trending due to incursion use was likley due to enthusasm with Crucible and returning players combined with some market fixing that caused the "spike".
Incursions have been around a lot longer than Crucible. Almost every expansion has an associated spike in PLEX prices due to people playing the PLEX market at the time when old players are reactivating their accounts.
Grumpy Owly wrote:So lets turn off null sec bounties for a month and see how much that effects plex purchasing. As that from your own confirmation its a different order of magnitude more problematic.
All that will achieve is to drive more people to run L4 missions or run Incursions. The impact of turning off null sec bounties will be to drive PLEX prices up.
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Grumpy Owly
316
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Posted - 2012.03.13 05:41:00 -
[353] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:more propoganda
Please provide citations as to how the isk generated from larger faucets cannot be associated with plex purchasing also and possibly more importantly cannot be channeled in the EvE economy so as to provide plex purchases from others.
Explain the large volumes of plex traded per month as solely associated with incursion runners.
I'm still seeing that the plex pricings most recent change is a clear spike co-incidental with the crucible expansion. No clear evidence that it's associated with incursions.
Quote:The rate of inflation of PLEX prices rose steeply when Incursions were introduced and has maintained that new, higher rate over that period of time.
I'm not saying that incursions won't contribute to plex purchasing.
Equally long term players will be earning more SP and finding better ways to earn isk regardless which equally can account for more earnings overall.
Also plex prices have been as high prior to incursions as when they were introduced and pre-crucible spike.
In short if you can't legitamise the link associated with Plex purchases and provide clear evidence as the main issue due to incursion runners then I can only accept it as simplified crystal ball gazing due to a simple view that running incursions makes it easier to earn a plex and not being able to look at the economy in a general way. Volumes of plex trading should help you here that there is significantly more than can be accounted for due to incursion runners.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/3021/3295/PLEX.png
(Notice the signifcant plex spike co-incidental with Crucible and also the significant number of plex volumes.) Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
234
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 06:09:00 -
[354] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rek Seven wrote:How do you control the EVE economy when anyone can buy a PLEX out of game and turn it into isk? GǪexcept that you cannot buy PLEX and turn it into ISK. You can only buy PLEX and trade it for pre-existing ISK. PLEX are almost completely economy-neutral.
I swear these forums have turned into Tippia trying to explain to numb skulls that they are dumb
Why do you bother Tippia?
Im serious stupid is constant on these forums and you try to fight it constantly....why not give up? CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1032
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 07:31:00 -
[355] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:(Notice the signifcant plex spike co-incidental with Crucible and also the significant number of plex volumes.)
Unsurprisingly, PLEX prices spike when a new expansion comes out. Equally unsurprisingly is the when hisec incursions are shut down (c/f Darius III, Ammzi and friends), PLEX prices start to drop.
Incursion runners are not the only people buying PLEX, you have that much right. The number of extremely cash-rich Incursion runners who are able to buy PLEX at any price are the ones placing extreme upward pressure on the price. ThIs was made quite clear during the period that Incursions were interdicted: people I know we're simply not logging in except to verify that no new incursions were running. During that period, PLEX prices fell slightly.
Due to the diffuse nature of NPC bounty income in nullsec, that stream of income will not impact PLEX prices so significantly. When you are making 60M ISK/hr and are replacing ships lost in PvP, you do not exert as much pressure on the PLEX market as the person making 100M ISK/ hr who never has to replace their ship. The Incursion runner simply has more disposable income.
So dismiss my opinion if you will, but be aware that I have made none of the claims that you have demanded me to support. |
Grumpy Owly
319
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 07:43:00 -
[356] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:(Notice the signifcant plex spike co-incidental with Crucible and also the significant number of plex volumes.) Unsurprisingly, PLEX prices spike when a new expansion comes out. Equally unsurprisingly is the when hisec incursions are shut down (c/f Darius III, Ammzi and friends), PLEX prices start to drop. Incursion runners are not the only people buying PLEX, you have that much right. The number of extremely cash-rich Incursion runners who are able to buy PLEX at any price are the ones placing extreme upward pressure on the price. ThIs was made quite clear during the period that Incursions were interdicted: people I know we're simply not logging in except to verify that no new incursions were running. During that period, PLEX prices fell slightly. Due to the diffuse nature of NPC bounty income in nullsec, that stream of income will not impact PLEX prices so significantly. When you are making 60M ISK/hr and are replacing ships lost in PvP, you do not exert as much pressure on the PLEX market as the person making 100M ISK/ hr who never has to replace their ship. The Incursion runner simply has more disposable income. So dismiss my opinion if you will, but be aware that I have made none of the claims that you have demanded me to support.
A handfull of freinds or voiced opinion does not support a point. Facts please. Also. there are significant ups and downs on that graph prior to the inclusion of incursions, also within it. Seeing as markets normally follow isk flow and transition up and down as normal "behaviour" a small transition might be attributable to something else. Again you cite nothing but conjecture to form a link. But you haven't provided any evidence linking trade with plex.
Seeing as plex is traded in the thousands per month roughly 14k to 15k in the months associated with the last quarter on the graph above, you cannot expect me to believe that is all from incursion runners?
You have consistantly associated incursions as a forerunner for plex issues whereas I'm simply trying to point out it may be a blinkered view and there is more involved with this than just that singular issue.
Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 07:47:00 -
[357] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:(Notice the signifcant plex spike co-incidental with Crucible and also the significant number of plex volumes.) Unsurprisingly, PLEX prices spike when a new expansion comes out. Equally unsurprisingly is the when hisec incursions are shut down (c/f Darius III, Ammzi and friends), PLEX prices start to drop. Incursion runners are not the only people buying PLEX, you have that much right. The number of extremely cash-rich Incursion runners who are able to buy PLEX at any price are the ones placing extreme upward pressure on the price. ThIs was made quite clear during the period that Incursions were interdicted: people I know we're simply not logging in except to verify that no new incursions were running. During that period, PLEX prices fell slightly. Due to the diffuse nature of NPC bounty income in nullsec, that stream of income will not impact PLEX prices so significantly. When you are making 60M ISK/hr and are replacing ships lost in PvP, you do not exert as much pressure on the PLEX market as the person making 100M ISK/ hr who never has to replace their ship. The Incursion runner simply has more disposable income. So dismiss my opinion if you will, but be aware that I have made none of the claims that you have demanded me to support.
You are talking through your bum I didn't see a relaxation in PLEX prices until afterwards... the 'interdiction' was so short lived you could not say PLEX's prices went up or down either way without horrible p values statistically |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
67
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Posted - 2012.03.13 07:51:00 -
[358] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:(Notice the signifcant plex spike co-incidental with Crucible and also the significant number of plex volumes.) Unsurprisingly, PLEX prices spike when a new expansion comes out. Equally unsurprisingly is the when hisec incursions are shut down (c/f Darius III, Ammzi and friends), PLEX prices start to drop. Incursion runners are not the only people buying PLEX, you have that much right. The number of extremely cash-rich Incursion runners who are able to buy PLEX at any price are the ones placing extreme upward pressure on the price. ThIs was made quite clear during the period that Incursions were interdicted: people I know we're simply not logging in except to verify that no new incursions were running. During that period, PLEX prices fell slightly. Due to the diffuse nature of NPC bounty income in nullsec, that stream of income will not impact PLEX prices so significantly. When you are making 60M ISK/hr and are replacing ships lost in PvP, you do not exert as much pressure on the PLEX market as the person making 100M ISK/ hr who never has to replace their ship. The Incursion runner simply has more disposable income. So dismiss my opinion if you will, but be aware that I have made none of the claims that you have demanded me to support. You are talking through your bum I didn't see a relaxation in PLEX prices until afterwards on my graphs which indicates another factor was at play... the 'interdiction' was so short lived you could not say PLEX's prices went up or down either way without horrible p values statistically.
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
167
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Posted - 2012.03.13 08:23:00 -
[359] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Xorv wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote: I'll leave the details to the devblog but I'd say there is a chance the changes might be (among other things) exactly what you wrote.
I certainly hope the "among other things" addresses the extreme risk vs reward imbalance that High Sec Incursions caused. Inflation is just one of the many problems your development foray into Themeparkish PvE raids has caused The only "Extreme Imbalance" is in your mind. Or in the fact that the way things are set up heavy favors RMT and nullbearing up. People go into incursions tired of the bullcrap of nullsec. Such as defending moon goo or RMT. Maybe after seeing if Inferno turns nullsec into a massive warzone again where bots cant thrive can we talk about incursions being imbalanced. *Awaits* Speech about "Defending the alliance" or "We have to have mandatory CTAs or they wont show up at 4AM!1"
Endeavour none of my characters are in a Sov Holding Alliance, so you'll be waiting a long time to hear that particular speech from me. That said Sov holders aren't really wrong to make that argument, even with the ridiculously broken Local Chat mechanics it is at least more dangerous than High Sec Incursions are today... although Mining in high sec is likely riskier than both these days.
You seem to have it stuck in your head that the only players that object to Incursions are from Sov Nullsec. Look more closely, it's wide range of players that share certain expectations on what's appropriate for a Sandbox MMORPG that is supposed to be driven by player conflict. High sec Incursions are not appropriate.
CCP needs to inject non consensual PvP fully into High Sec or gut High Sec income to tiny fraction of what is possible now. There's no other way that it can be balanced otherwise with the rest of the game. ... Anyway, maybe we should let people get back to talking about the Inflation side of the problem.
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El 1974
Bendebeukers Green Rhino
55
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Posted - 2012.03.13 08:37:00 -
[360] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Fun Facts:
In the month of Feb:
~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts
~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses ~32T in NPC bounty
So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet
~81% comes from non-Incursion activity
EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Soundwave! Let me put these numbers in perspective with an example (using guestimates): 1. asume that the people who now are doing incursions only made half that amount of money before incursions --> that means the amount of isk faucets is increased by roughly 10% 2. asume that isk faucets outweighed sinks by 10% before incursions -> the net increase in the money supply has doubled (if the isk sinks have not increased by nearly as much) Doubling the net increase in the money supply sounds like a good recipe for hyperinflation. |
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