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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2367
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Posted - 2012.03.12 15:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Best way to deal with this is to continue sitting in null running your bots full time while keeping everyone focused on incursions. Hold on...y'all are already doing that. Carry on. Mr Epeen
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9133
look who's wrong!!! "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
717
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board. |
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highonpop
Void.Tech BLACK-MARK
24
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:dust is gonna be the biggest isk sink ever
stock up on isk if possible :P
Yea, Incursions are the faucet and Dust will be the drain... |
highonpop
Void.Tech BLACK-MARK
24
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.
or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow...
Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout...
Or tell the Sansha to go home... |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
717
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
highonpop wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board. or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow... Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout... Or tell the Sansha to go home...
Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally. |
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Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
560
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.
Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%.
IB4 high sec tears.
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Zircon Dasher
Zirconia Trade Group
73
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fun Facts:
In the month of Feb:
~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts
~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses ~32T in NPC bounty
So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet
~81% comes from non-Incursion activity |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
53
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Garak Jakobs wrote:There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.
Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...
Incursions is maybe the fastest way to make isk yes indeed but it is deserved because the majority of subs come from empire people. That is a fact.
If you continue to take away every isk making solution to high sec subs will fall drastically.
It may be in CCPs interest to change them around slightly as they do with everything [just look at PI] I cannot see it changing too much.
Incursions in high sec are 0 risk maximum reward money makers, they help cause imbalances to so many aspects of eve. I doubt a change will affect subs, they're to New to have a specific fan base and many running them are old mission running alts to pay for pvp mains. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
408
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board. Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%. IB4 high sec tears. You are still just moving numbers around. That's not a sink. That's merely reducing the rate of inflation.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
921
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
10 plus days old? Dead and buried. Ten days is forever in bot world as you well know. There is a whole new generation of Bee bots dispersing through 0.0 as we speak. This too, you well know.
What are you trying to distract everyone from? No need to answer. We already know.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
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Kile Kitmoore
7
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:highonpop wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board. or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow... Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout... Or tell the Sansha to go home... Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads! Do adjustments need to be made, absolutely, but to constantly place all EVE's economic problems on a small groups of players running Incursions is a bit of a stretch.
As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice!
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
408
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:10 plus days old? Dead and buried. Ten days is forever in bot world as you well know. There is a whole new generation of Bee bots dispersing through 0.0 as we speak. This too, you well know. What are you trying to distract everyone from? No need to answer. We already know. Mr Epeen ...? That's the first time I've heard that term. What's a "Bee bot"?
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Dragon Outlaw
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
43
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Trade bots manipulating the market? |
Darth Sith
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
18
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.
There are two things that will hit this issue and hit it hard:
1) Introduce alchemy for all the moon goo. Most of the cost of mins is being inflated by the huge demand and ramp up in Super cap production. Most of that is paid for in Tech and the like. Alchemy will put a cap on all moon goo prices and take away that super huge cash cow causing a drop in min demand for minerals. Expensive goo = cash for owners but huge cost in T2 production that brings up prices + min price increase jacks up the cost of everything else in game.
2) Cut supers off at the knees. They don't need to be nerfed, A 60 billion isk ship should be able to rip open the heavens and crap down it's neck! That said, it should take an insane amount of time and energy to move that mass. Cut the jump range, increase consumption and spool up time. That makes them powerful but stops that power from being projected across the map in minutes. Supers should be committed to a region for a conflict but make them a logistical nightmare to move any distance so that a re-deployment should be something you need to plan and execute in a methodical fashion.
Just my 2 cents . |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2368
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:10 plus days old? Dead and buried. Ten days is forever in bot world as you well know. There is a whole new generation of Bee bots dispersing through 0.0 as we speak. This too, you well know. What are you trying to distract everyone from? No need to answer. We already know. Mr Epeen
Even if you were right and I was trying to distract the community from the bot problem (even though you're using the bot problem to get the focus away from the incursion ISK fountain, pot meet kettle) CCP Sreegs would still be looking for bots to squish. There goes your tinfoil hat theory. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5434
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally. You're going to have to elaborate on that one a bit.
Kile Kitmoore wrote:Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads! Nope.
Quote:As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice! Inflation is not a mining buff since it doesn't mean mining is more worth-while. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
442
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.
If you are considering "everything", how about this "magic solution" - * Nerf highsec income by alot, since they barely have any expenses and are a major part of cluttering up the economy with liquid (shouldn't greater risk = greater reward too? but that's more a moral question) * Promote PvP, PvP is not only fun and something that used to be a part of this game, today it's just superblob A vs superblob B, where either blob rolls over and packs up, moves to highsec and make massive isk, while the other blob amasses supers (i.e., shouldn't smallscale PvP, risks in highsec, etc, be on your main agenda and not the bullshit blob promotions, ****** blob-super-promotions, incursion- and missionrunning junk you do atm be alot better for the game as a whole?)
So yeah, I call your "considering everything" a bullshit statement. I think what you really mean is: "we consider everything, that goes along with what we want to achive, which is a viable system to keep massive amounts of carebears in highsec (more subs!) and superblobs in null (because we think laggy blobs is fun!), while completely ignoring what made EVE so great, the player driven economy and smallscale PvP, where skills/tactics actually matters".
Just admit you sold out for more subscribers, it's already blatantly obvious and you really have bottom cred among the players already. Might as well win some back by being honest. So yeah, you want to gamble with EVE's future by having potentially gamebreaking models (carebear blobs who spends no isk, and massive nullsec blobs who kills all PvP), in order to get more subs. Short-term you win, long-term.. your chances of success is not very high. this is a signature |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
721
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally. You're going to have to elaborate on that one a bit. Kile Kitmoore wrote:Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads! Nope. Quote:As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice! Inflation is not a mining buff since it doesn't mean mining is more worth-while.
Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs. |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2936
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Tippia wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:And there are still carebears who want highsec lvl5's. Though with the ammount of isk you can make in incursions, Lvl5's are obsolete L5s aren't nearly as bad since they're mostly LP-based, with a healthy helping of tags that further feeds the LP spendings of other players. Very true, also, if you can't match incursion income running level 5s, you're not running level 5s very well. The biggest problem with incursion payouts as they are (and no, it hasn't obsoleted everything else in the game, nor can it simply because of the fact that there are a very finite number of sites that can be run in 1 system, more than 60-70 in a system and you're dropping sites faster than they can spawn) is that the LP market is absolutely ****. In their attempt to turn LP stores into isk sinks, CCP set a minimum price on everything in them, and by making tags so much harder to get than LP, and required for so many of the mods in their stores, they end up in a place where a massive part of the income from missions (as well as what they could have potentially shifted incursions towards to lower the impact on inflation) is worthless. A few years ago someone who knew what they were doing could blitz missions and pull 100mil/hour in highsec running lvl 4s, but a large part of that was LP. With the LP/tag imbalance being as bad as it is, this is no longer possible, and you'd be lucky to pull 60-70, which is a pity because the easiest way to fix the inflation problem in incursions would be to shift more of the reward to LPs and add more rewards, but, looking at what's there now, the artificial floor on the prices is set too high for there to be much demand for the rewards currently there, and the LP is mostly useless. Also vanguards need a nerf, assaults need a notable buff and HQs need a slight buff.
If you're interested in pursuing the tag/LP store imbalance, I have created a thread in the Assembly Hall to (hopefully) try and redress this imbalance.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Zircon Dasher
Zirconia Trade Group
73
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Misanth wrote: Promote PvP
You can lead a horse to water..... |
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
442
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Fun Facts:
In the month of Feb:
~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts
~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses ~32T in NPC bounty
So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet
~81% comes from non-Incursion activity
EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Soundwave!
At nearly zero risk, with nearly zero isk spent on market (if you compare with low- and nullsec inhibitants). this is a signature |
Kile Kitmoore
7
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Tippia wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally. You're going to have to elaborate on that one a bit. Kile Kitmoore wrote:Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads! Nope. Quote:As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice! Inflation is not a mining buff since it doesn't mean mining is more worth-while. Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.
And you guys want to take away Drone Poo and replace it with pure isk bounties? |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Misanth wrote: * Promote PvP
Wrong. PvP is an isk faucet due to insurance. Try harder.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
293
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Misanth wrote: Promote PvP You can lead a horse to water.....
And you can drown it. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Francisco Bizzaro
2
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Look, inflation hurts only a few classes of people: Old People, Children, people on some types of welfare or fixed income, and the poor.
What do they have in common? Unemployment.
You have a job in EvE... we all do. Inflation is a non-factor because everyone (but people who only play NPCs and f-em anyway) will see their income go up proportionally with the inflation of the currency. It's totally a non-issue!
This should be the way it works.
The problem is that the various sources of income seem to be somewhat out of balance, more so than they have been in the past. If the biggest easy income source drives up the prices, then the rest have to work harder to keep their head above water. So we all have to become incursion runners (or whatever FOTM), at least part time, and every other "profession" becomes a redundant hobby.
If the inflation is caused by one job standing head and shoulders above the rest, then the answer to every noob question "Is it profitable to do X?" becomes "No, run incursions", and we end up with a more boring homogeneous game.
As long as there are a number of viable professions, inflation shouldn't be a problem at all, and the game will remain fun.
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J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
hohoho new sig, ty Soundwave For all the-áomgz incursions are an isk faucet-áwhiners CCP Soundwave : "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally."
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Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
251
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:highonpop wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board. or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow... Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout... Or tell the Sansha to go home... Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
It's the risk vs reward that grates on a lot of people though, the focus has shifted from null when the anomalies were nerfed to high sec. If incursion runners weren't farming the vanguard sites like they are there probably wouldn't be so many cries against incursions as there are currently. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Valei Khurelem
433
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.
One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.
Please please, put a hard limit on ISK that can be generated, that way we'll have proper price crashes and resets like a real economy and we won't have one piece of tritanium costing 1000000 ISK because that's how it's looking now. To make mission running worthwhile you can increase the loyalty points you get rewarded for completing missions as the NPCs run out of ISK.
One point was also made that I really approve of but the other guy hated where you'd actually see more PvP because alliances would hoard ISK, I think that would be a great idea because it would give people more reason to fight!
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
gfldex
362
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
That is true if you ignore that highsec Incursions provide an alternative to multi account highsec mining. One generates ISK the other doesn't (so much, there are still insurance payouts as indirect mineral buy orders).
You further ignore that income inequity can amplify an inflation tendency. ISK in EVE works different then on Earth. On our (still quite) lovely planet money is created with dept. When dept and money meet both vanish. In EVE money creation is accumulative. Look into the wallets of folk that run Incursions on a regular basis and tell us what you see. And then assume that this number keeps ticking up because there is no ISK sink a pure Incursion runner has to fuel. There are many who ignore the CONCORD LP shop and as such have no ISK sink at all.
If you prod you buy BPOs. If you take space you pay sov bills. (it's quite amusing to say that to an ex-goon :)
Incursion runners don't have any bills to pay. Their wealth keeps accumulating. As a result inflation can go into 2nd gear and hurt all those who got a low income. There is good reason why trit and pyerite keeps going up. You must be a complete moron to keep mining in highsec when you can make the same ISK in a fraction of the time.
I will have no problem to sell Drakes for 70M ISK a pop. I'm not sure if noobs will enjoy those prices tho. You need quite a few SP to be competitive in Incursions. So the income of noobs relative to prices will keep dropping. I'm a massive troll, so I will enjoy the whining of noobs who can't afford their BCs anymore. But then I'm not getting payed by some icelandic company. How about you?
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5434
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Posted - 2012.03.12 16:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs. Yes, but that doesn't mean that incursions aren't problematic, since they are doing that with relatively few players doing them GÇö the scaling effect of more people doing incursions are quite shocking.
Like you said, you've made people better at making money, and that's a problem. Incursions are the latest example of this, and squeezing the money-making abilities elsewhere will just entice more people to go for this (no longer all that) new scheme. You have to address the issue across the board to make it work, or people will just move over from what's recently been nerfed to what remains the same, and the problem will still be there.
Additionally, unlike with bounties, incursions already have an alternative rewards scheme that could let you scale back on the ISK injection without actually nerfing the income generation GÇö everyone wins. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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